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Dec 30, 2023 21:50:18 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Dec 30, 2023 21:50:18 GMT -5
Been thinking about our buddy Farhan.
If he was a plane, he'd be grounded for parts.
If he was a jockey, he'd be a scratch for failing to post.
If he was a boat, he'd be removed from the water because he couldn't float.
If he was a bullet, he'd be removed from the chamber because he misfired.
If he was a dragster, he'd be removed from the line for failure to start.
If he was paint, he'd be scraped from the wall because he faded.
If he was a road, he'd be torn up because he was un safe
If he was a deer, he'd be dinner because he wasn't quick enough.
And if he was a politician, well, that would be different now, wouldn't it... He'd be cheered for being a liar.
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Jan 2, 2024 17:22:27 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 2, 2024 17:22:27 GMT -5
I saw a list of the major league teams and their off season grades so far. Giants grade in the middle with a C, Dodgers got an A but there are a number of teams that really have not done much of anything. I blame a lot of that on Boras who has been waiting out the market
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Jan 2, 2024 20:23:38 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 2, 2024 20:23:38 GMT -5
That may be true, Reed, but the fact is still the fact; we ain't done squat after LEE.
And that's fine...IF the plan is to get some pitching and let the bloody kids play.
In the mean time, as we used to say in the 60's, Farhan can sit on it and rotate!
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Jan 3, 2024 8:13:12 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 3, 2024 8:13:12 GMT -5
That may be true, Reed, but the fact is still the fact; we ain't done squat after LEE. And that's fine...IF the plan is to get some pitching and let the bloody kids play. In the mean time, as we used to say in the 60's, Farhan can sit on it and rotate! The list of grades is on cbssports.com. The good teams have done better (Atlanta, Dodgers, Arizona, Yankees). Fans expressed frustration with teams like Cubs, Astros, Mets, Angels, Jays and the below average teams. I think the Murphy deal was an overpay, especially since they have Bart on the roster and could have had Wynns or Perez for the minimum. While I think he hasn't done nothing, the Giants have been used as a stalking horse and outside of Lee, have not really done many upgrades. Grade of C which cbssports gave them seems right for now but that could go down if they start to make stupid signings. They are definitely not playing with the big boys but a lot of big spending teams have been relatively silent.
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Jan 5, 2024 18:38:11 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 5, 2024 18:38:11 GMT -5
That may be true, Reed, but the fact is still the fact; we ain't done squat after LEE. And that's fine...IF the plan is to get some pitching and let the bloody kids play. In the mean time, as we used to say in the 60's, Farhan can sit on it and rotate! The list of grades is on cbssports.com. The good teams have done better (Atlanta, Dodgers, Arizona, Yankees). Fans expressed frustration with teams like Cubs, Astros, Mets, Angels, Jays and the below average teams. I think the Murphy deal was an overpay, especially since they have Bart on the roster and could have had Wynns or Perez for the minimum. While I think he hasn't done nothing, the Giants have been used as a stalking horse and outside of Lee, have not really done many upgrades. Grade of C which cbssports gave them seems right for now but that could go down if they start to make stupid signings. They are definitely not playing with the big boys but a lot of big spending teams have been relatively silent. Ray for desclafani and Haniger. Trade of damaged goods all around. Ray had TJ surgery and might be ready sometime after the All Star break. He has a player opt out after 2024. This is more a trade to move around the dead weight.
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Jan 5, 2024 21:01:15 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 5, 2024 21:01:15 GMT -5
Good move on the Giants part. I don't expect much from Ray, but we know we weren't going to get much from Desclafani either, plus we got rid of Haniger at the same time. Opens up spots for younger players.
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Jan 5, 2024 22:40:38 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 5, 2024 22:40:38 GMT -5
Good move on the Giants part. I don't expect much from Ray, but we know we weren't going to get much from Desclafani either, plus we got rid of Haniger at the same time. Opens up spots for younger players. The problem is that I don't think its going to open up spots for younger players. Inside the Cubs thinks its foreshadowing a Bellinger signing. I liked the Robbie Ray move on its own but I'm getting a bad feeling the corresponding move will be something monumentally stupid.
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Jan 6, 2024 9:26:11 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 6, 2024 9:26:11 GMT -5
The list of grades is on cbssports.com. The good teams have done better (Atlanta, Dodgers, Arizona, Yankees). Fans expressed frustration with teams like Cubs, Astros, Mets, Angels, Jays and the below average teams. I think the Murphy deal was an overpay, especially since they have Bart on the roster and could have had Wynns or Perez for the minimum. While I think he hasn't done nothing, the Giants have been used as a stalking horse and outside of Lee, have not really done many upgrades. Grade of C which cbssports gave them seems right for now but that could go down if they start to make stupid signings. They are definitely not playing with the big boys but a lot of big spending teams have been relatively silent. Ray for desclafani and Haniger. Trade of damaged goods all around. Ray had TJ surgery and might be ready sometime after the All Star break. He has a player opt out after 2024. This is more a trade to move around the dead weight. Totally agree. This trade clears up an outfield spot for one of our kids to play more. Actually, I'm pulling for that to be Fitzgerald
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Jan 6, 2024 9:27:08 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 6, 2024 9:27:08 GMT -5
Well, So much for my logic that it opened up a spot.
I really hope you are wrong, But I have this sinking stinking feeling that you are not
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Jan 6, 2024 9:27:58 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 6, 2024 9:27:58 GMT -5
And if f z does make that move with the cubs, . He never had any intention Of building from, It is as I have been saying all about putting fannies In seats nothing else
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Jan 6, 2024 10:24:33 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2024 10:24:33 GMT -5
Well, So much for my logic that it opened up a spot. I really hope you are wrong, But I have this sinking stinking feeling that you are not It opens up two spots because they can stash Ray onto the 60 day IL and they get a little bit of CBT relief. A good thing that might come out of this is that it might take them out of the picture for Snell, who is a similar pitcher.
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Jan 6, 2024 10:26:48 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2024 10:26:48 GMT -5
And if f z does make that move with the cubs, . He never had any intention Of building from, It is as I have been saying all about putting fannies In seats nothing else Bellinger is a free agent so it is not a trade with the Cubs. However, there is a QO attached to Bellinger so signing Bellinger would cost a draft pick and international bonus pool money. Cubs are in the mix as a return FA landing spot.
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Jan 6, 2024 10:44:14 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2024 10:44:14 GMT -5
Ray for desclafani and Haniger. Trade of damaged goods all around. Ray had TJ surgery and might be ready sometime after the All Star break. He has a player opt out after 2024. This is more a trade to move around the dead weight. Totally agree. This trade clears up an outfield spot for one of our kids to play more. Actually, I'm pulling for that to be Fitzgerald They really do not like Fitzgerald because he does not hit the ball hard enough for their liking. If they are so concerned about Fitzgerald's and Matos' low exit velocities and low hard hit ball % then I don't understand why they are even looking at Bellinger who has the same problems and frequently ends up getting injured. Boras is going to want top dollar for Bellinger and he's not worth it. McCovey Chronicles just ran a nice piece on Bellinger and I'm leaning towards "no Bellinger". www.mccoveychronicles.com/2024/1/5/18213165/yes-cody-bellinger-is-the-pivot-san-francisco-giants-free-agent-pursuits
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Jan 6, 2024 13:32:09 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 6, 2024 13:32:09 GMT -5
Regardless if it's a move to open up a spot for a younger guy, or for someone like Bellinger, we traded two negatives for one negative (who could potentially be a positive.) I don't like the prospect of getting Bellinger, but I don't consider him a negative.
We know what we're getting with Desclafani and even at best, it's still not very good.
Robbie Ray is an unknown, he could never be the same after his Tommy John surgery, or he could be what he was and be a legitimate #2 or #3 guy. At least there's a possibility he could make an impact. If not, oh well, we still only have one problem rather than two.
If the Giants do go out and get Bellinger, which I hope they don't, but if they do.. at least Bellinger is better than Haniger. And since Bellinger can play first base, it gives Matos and Ramos the opportunity to force the Giants to move Bellinger to first.
Overall I think it's a good move. If theres one thing I like about Farhan, it's that he's pretty good at cleaning up previous mistakes and finding a way to get another team to eat those mistakes. Sabean stuck to his guns longer and we had to endure his mistakes longer. Although, Sabean made way fewer mistakes.
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Jan 6, 2024 13:35:30 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 6, 2024 13:35:30 GMT -5
I forgot to mention, Robbie Ray being out until mid summer, it leaves an open spot in our rotation as well. That gives the opportunity for a younger pitcher to have a shot at making the club. Big plus for the Giants.
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Jan 6, 2024 15:24:49 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 6, 2024 15:24:49 GMT -5
Totally agree. This trade clears up an outfield spot for one of our kids to play more. Actually, I'm pulling for that to be Fitzgerald They really do not like Fitzgerald because he does not hit the ball hard enough for their liking. If they are so concerned about Fitzgerald's and Matos' low exit velocities and low hard hit ball % then I don't understand why they are even looking at Bellinger who has the same problems and frequently ends up getting injured. Boras is going to want top dollar for Bellinger and he's not worth it. McCovey Chronicles just ran a nice piece on Bellinger and I'm leaning towards "no Bellinger". www.mccoveychronicles.com/2024/1/5/18213165/yes-cody-bellinger-is-the-pivot-san-francisco-giants-free-agent-pursuitsI never wanted the putz. It's not a smart move to sign him especially not at the dollars he would come in but since FZ has struck out so often we can get comfortable with the fact that he'll be with us very soon
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Jan 6, 2024 15:26:13 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 6, 2024 15:26:13 GMT -5
Regardless if it's a move to open up a spot for a younger guy, or for someone like Bellinger, we traded two negatives for one negative (who could potentially be a positive.) I don't like the prospect of getting Bellinger, but I don't consider him a negative. We know what we're getting with Desclafani and even at best, it's still not very good. Robbie Ray is an unknown, he could never be the same after his Tommy John surgery, or he could be what he was and be a legitimate #2 or #3 guy. At least there's a possibility he could make an impact. If not, oh well, we still only have one problem rather than two. If the Giants do go out and get Bellinger, which I hope they don't, but if they do.. at least Bellinger is better than Haniger. And since Bellinger can play first base, it gives Matos and Ramos the opportunity to force the Giants to move Bellinger to first. Overall I think it's a good move. If theres one thing I like about Farhan, it's that he's pretty good at cleaning up previous mistakes and finding a way to get another team to eat those mistakes. Sabean stuck to his guns longer and we had to endure his mistakes longer. Although, Sabean made way fewer mistakes. You've seen something different than me. I've never seen f z clean up any of his mistakes. If I miss something, let me know what
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Jan 6, 2024 17:02:56 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2024 17:02:56 GMT -5
I forgot to mention, Robbie Ray being out until mid summer, it leaves an open spot in our rotation as well. That gives the opportunity for a younger pitcher to have a shot at making the club. Big plus for the Giants. Boly: You've seen something different than me. I've never seen f z clean up any of his mistakes. If I miss something, let me know what He traded off Darrin Ruf, deSclafani, and Haniger and DFA'd LaStella. Also, guys obtained via the churn don't stay around too long. Also, Manaea was signed by the Mets so there's no chance of him getting tempted to run Manaea back.
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Jan 6, 2024 17:11:52 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2024 17:11:52 GMT -5
I forgot to mention, Robbie Ray being out until mid summer, it leaves an open spot in our rotation as well. That gives the opportunity for a younger pitcher to have a shot at making the club. Big plus for the Giants. Bowden says that by obtaining Robbie Ray, they are backing down on Imanaga. That may be wise since he gives up a lot of home runs. I'm hearing conflicting reports that the Giants and Angels are the finalists so it might be a negotiating tactic. I still think Imanaga would be a better fit than Snell because of Snell's tendency to give up a lot of walks. Here is a quote from Zaidi: “ The ideal outcome is we have younger pitchers in our pipeline step up, take some of the opportunities that we’re gonna have and be able to address it internally,” Zaidi said.
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Jan 6, 2024 20:16:17 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 6, 2024 20:16:17 GMT -5
He got the Braves to take Mark Melancon and his contract, and we got Tristan Beck in return.
Conor Joe didn't stick around long, although he turned out to be a capable player with the Rockies.
My point is...Farhan seems more willing to change strategies than Sabean did. Not that Farhan is anywhere near the GM than Sabean was, Sabean was the best Giants GM in my lifetime..but Sabes was definitely more stubborn. Look how long we stuck with Aaron Rowand for.
I still don't like Farhan, and I still think he should've been fired along with Kapler. But I'm happy with this move, Desclafani and Haniger and gone and that makes us a better team.
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Jan 6, 2024 21:32:35 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2024 21:32:35 GMT -5
Regardless if it's a move to open up a spot for a younger guy, or for someone like Bellinger, we traded two negatives for one negative (who could potentially be a positive.) I don't like the prospect of getting Bellinger, but I don't consider him a negative. We know what we're getting with Desclafani and even at best, it's still not very good. Robbie Ray is an unknown, he could never be the same after his Tommy John surgery, or he could be what he was and be a legitimate #2 or #3 guy. At least there's a possibility he could make an impact. If not, oh well, we still only have one problem rather than two. If the Giants do go out and get Bellinger, which I hope they don't, but if they do.. at least Bellinger is better than Haniger. And since Bellinger can play first base, it gives Matos and Ramos the opportunity to force the Giants to move Bellinger to first. Overall I think it's a good move. If theres one thing I like about Farhan, it's that he's pretty good at cleaning up previous mistakes and finding a way to get another team to eat those mistakes. Sabean stuck to his guns longer and we had to endure his mistakes longer. Although, Sabean made way fewer mistakes. You've seen something different than me. I've never seen f z clean up any of his mistakes. If I miss something, let me know what You'll be happy to know that they just re-signed Donovan Walton. Start printing those playoff tickets.
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Jan 6, 2024 21:47:17 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2024 21:47:17 GMT -5
He got the Braves to take Mark Melancon and his contract, and we got Tristan Beck in return. Conor Joe didn't stick around long, although he turned out to be a capable player with the Rockies. My point is...Farhan seems more willing to change strategies than Sabean did. Not that Farhan is anywhere near the GM than Sabean was, Sabean was the best Giants GM in my lifetime..but Sabes was definitely more stubborn. Look how long we stuck with Aaron Rowand for. I still don't like Farhan, and I still think he should've been fired along with Kapler. But I'm happy with this move, Desclafani and Haniger and gone and that makes us a better team. I'm happy with the move because they got rid of two guys I felt were untradeable but still not happy with Zaidi. Too much churning lately that does not seem to serve any purpose. They are still stuck with Conforto and Stripling. I think Melvin made the Zaidi extension a condition for his accepting the managerial position.
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Jan 6, 2024 21:48:29 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2024 21:48:29 GMT -5
Boagie: My point is...Farhan seems more willing to change strategies than Sabean did. Not that Farhan is anywhere near the GM than Sabean was, Sabean was the best Giants GM in my lifetime..but Sabes was definitely more stubborn.
I liked Sabean and Rosen.
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Jan 7, 2024 9:04:54 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 7, 2024 9:04:54 GMT -5
Boagie: Farhan seems more willing to change strategies than Sabean did.
I think he was forced to change strategies. After Kapler was fired, it was clear he would have to adapt or be fired also.
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Jan 7, 2024 9:21:23 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 7, 2024 9:21:23 GMT -5
He got the Braves to take Mark Melancon and his contract, and we got Tristan Beck in return. Conor Joe didn't stick around long, although he turned out to be a capable player with the Rockies. My point is...Farhan seems more willing to change strategies than Sabean did. Not that Farhan is anywhere near the GM than Sabean was, Sabean was the best Giants GM in my lifetime..but Sabes was definitely more stubborn. Look how long we stuck with Aaron Rowand for. I still don't like Farhan, and I still think he should've been fired along with Kapler. But I'm happy with this move, Desclafani and Haniger and gone and that makes us a better team. Thanks! You answered my questions, Putting on the moves I'd forgotten
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Jan 7, 2024 9:22:49 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 7, 2024 9:22:49 GMT -5
He got the Braves to take Mark Melancon and his contract, and we got Tristan Beck in return. Conor Joe didn't stick around long, although he turned out to be a capable player with the Rockies. My point is...Farhan seems more willing to change strategies than Sabean did. Not that Farhan is anywhere near the GM than Sabean was, Sabean was the best Giants GM in my lifetime..but Sabes was definitely more stubborn. Look how long we stuck with Aaron Rowand for. I still don't like Farhan, and I still think he should've been fired along with Kapler. But I'm happy with this move, Desclafani and Haniger and gone and that makes us a better team. Thanks! You answered my questions, Putting on the moves I'd forgotten
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Jan 7, 2024 11:33:45 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 7, 2024 11:33:45 GMT -5
Reed- I think he was forced to change strategies. After Kapler was fired, it was clear he would have to adapt or be fired also.
Boagie- I think he changed his strategy with coaching moves..allowing Williams and Burrell (who are more old style) to join the coaching staff.
But nothing he's done with the roster shows he's going a different route.
He still missed out on landing the big names and made a nonsensical move by getting Tom Murphy when we already had Joey Bart. I think a mixture of Bart and Sabol would've been a perfectly serviceable backup. Instead, we paid out $8 mil for something we already had. (That $8 mil could've been added to the contract we offered Yamamoto and it could've secured the deal.) Instead we now have 4 catchers...
Like always, he still hasn't seriously addressed the pitching needs, but I imagine he'll add some scrap heap pitchers with arm issues to plug into the rotation. Which will force Winn and Beck into relief roles. If he allows Winn and Beck a chance to crack the rotation in spring then maybe he's changed a bit, but that remains to be seen as of yet.
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Jan 7, 2024 14:43:50 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 7, 2024 14:43:50 GMT -5
Reed- I think he was forced to change strategies. After Kapler was fired, it was clear he would have to adapt or be fired also. Boagie- I think he changed his strategy with coaching moves..allowing Williams and Burrell (who are more old style) to join the coaching staff. But nothing he's done with the roster shows he's going a different route. He still missed out on landing the big names and made a nonsensical move by getting Tom Murphy when we already had Joey Bart. I think a mixture of Bart and Sabol would've been a perfectly serviceable backup. Instead, we paid out $8 mil for something we already had. (That $8 mil could've been added to the contract we offered Yamamoto and it could've secured the deal.) Instead we now have 4 catchers... Like always, he still hasn't seriously addressed the pitching needs, but I imagine he'll add some scrap heap pitchers with arm issues to plug into the rotation. Which will force Winn and Beck into relief roles. If he allows Winn and Beck a chance to crack the rotation in spring then maybe he's changed a bit, but that remains to be seen as of yet. Zaidi has traditionally had a couple of blind spots in his thought process. I get that he likes to tinker on the edges but his traditional blind spots are defense, middle relief, and back end of rotation. Also, he tends to focus more on plugging players into multiple positions and looks too much at certain designer stats and maybe not enough on things like injury history. A lot of other teams and fanbases are complaining about inaction also and I think a lot of this has to do with Ohtani, Yamamoto, and that Boras is the agent to most of the bigger name players. From what I've heard about Yamamoto is that he was going to the Dodgers, no matter what and the New York teams served as competition to sweeten the deal. In addition to the $325 million, he got perks like trainers on retainer, Japanese chef, and flights to Japan. You would think that with $325 million, he could have paid for it out of his own pocket. When I hear about things like this, Yamamoto seems to me like a guy who is not team first. I don't think the $8 million paid to Murphy would have changed his mind if he's been a long time Dodger fan and gets to play with Ohtani. I'm not sure if its sour grapes from certain fans or what but Yamamoto seems not all that he's cracked up to be. I'm still curious as to what Boly and Boagie think of his delivery. I think YY is an injury just waiting to happen. That being said, the $8 million paid to Murphy is not a big deal but I don't want to hear about it as an excuse later on not to sign someone if they do not want to trigger the CBT. I will be especially annoyed if Bart ends up being a 30 home run guy for another team.
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Jan 7, 2024 16:57:11 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 7, 2024 16:57:11 GMT -5
I have not seen yamamoto's delivery other than one or two throes, And from what I saw he looked smooth and easy meaning he's not putting a lot of stress. Neither his elbow norris rotator cuff.
I agree with boagie here, Eight million for a catcher we did not need is outrageous!
And I have yet to hear any positives about him at the plate as a hitter.
Farhan reminds me of all the fans into statistics who really know very little about the game outside of the saber metrics and statistics.
And I say that because of all the seemingly foolish moves he makes like this Murphy nonsense.As boagie said, he has done little to nothing the bolster the pitching staff and little to nothing to make this team more athletic outside of the signing of Lee
I am biased, But I would have showed his fat fanny to the door when the season ended
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Jan 7, 2024 17:43:56 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 7, 2024 17:43:56 GMT -5
FZ seems to not really look at the big picture but appears to focus on one little aspect of certain players. Also, there are number of guys which he says "we have been looking to get this guy for years" and ends up being useless. I think he keeps re-signing Donovan Walton to justify the Berroa trade. Outside of a little power, Walton is simply not good at any aspect of playing professional baseball. Other guys in the FZ man-crush are Papierski, Tauchman, Padlo, Mercedes, and Calhoun. I get that they traded for players like Dickerson and Yaz in order to elevate the floor of the roster but it seems the last time he hit on a improvement on the floor of the roster was with Estrada, which is now quite a while back. The state of the organization is now changed and instead of focusing on the base of the 40 man roster, he should be looking to improve the top of the 26 man roster. I'm not sure what Murphy offers that Bart does not have or is better than what the scrubs like Caselli, Wynns, Papierski, etc could have given for the major league minimum. The only thing Murphy seems to excel at is getting injured. They have Bart. They have Sabol. Spending money on a player like Murphy does not make any sense.
I remember that FZ and Scott Harris used to text each other about these "floor" players at 3AM in the morning. I'm not sure if anything brilliant happens after midnight, to be honest.
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