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Jan 13, 2024 20:03:43 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 13, 2024 20:03:43 GMT -5
The way the CBT works is that the player's average annual value counts toward a team having to pay a luxury tax. The first threshold is team salary of $237 million. It is complicated and if a team goes over the luxury tax level multiple years, the fines escalate and there are multipliers at higher team salary levels. The team salary changes throughout the year when they add or subtract players. If they trade the player off, the new team assumes the salary hit toward the luxury tax unless there is an agreement in place that the original team pays the salary (for example, the Mets are still paying Scherzer and Verlander). If a team releases a player, it still counts as part of team salary (like laStella last year or Zack Cosart in 2019) against luxury tax. Here are the rules copied from MLB.com The following thresholds were put in place per the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement:
2022: $230 million
2023: $233 million
2024: $237 million
2025: $241 million
2026: $244 million
A club that exceeds the Competitive Balance Tax threshold is subject to an increasing tax rate depending on how many consecutive years it has done so.
First year: 20 percent tax on all overages
Second consecutive year: 30 percent
Third consecutive year or more: 50 percent
If a club dips below the luxury tax threshold for a season, the penalty level is reset. So, a club that exceeds the threshold for two straight seasons but then drops below that level would be back at 20 percent the next time it exceeds the threshold.
There’s also a surcharge threshold for clubs that exceed the base threshold by $20 million or more.
$20 million to $40 million: 12 percent surcharge
$40 million to $60 million: 42.5 percent surcharge for first year; 45 percent for each consecutive year after that
$60 million or more: 60 percent surcharge
Clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead. Then how on God's green earth can the Dodgers do what they are doing, pay what they are paying?
They have become what the Yankees were under Steinbrenner. A bought and paid for pennant winning team.
Just not right.
I hated when Stein did it, and I hate it now.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:04:56 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 13, 2024 20:04:56 GMT -5
Boly- Personally, I'd rather they trade Conforto, and then go out and get a 1B who plays good defense, and use Lamont as the LH Dh. Boagie- Flores is a better defender at first than Lamont. I don't know why they insist on using Lamont there so much. I agree, Lamont should be used as the left-handed DH, or as a bat off the bench. Same with Slater on the right side. I'd love them to trade Conforto and or Stripling but they will have to trade them for someone else who has a bad contract or an injury or to a team which has cap room. How about we get someone who can play defense better than Conforto?
He's average to below average at best and the ONLY place he can play in our park is LEFT FIELD.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:15:51 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 13, 2024 20:15:51 GMT -5
Boly:Then how on God's green earth can the Dodgers do what they are doing, pay what they are paying?
They have become what the Yankees were under Steinbrenner. A bought and paid for pennant winning team.
Just not right.
I hated when Stein did it, and I hate it now.
What's weird is that karma seems to always win out Since 2000, the team that had highest payroll only won the World Series four times.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:52:18 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 13, 2024 21:52:18 GMT -5
Need to be of downer but that's four times too many
As we talked on this board earlier, what's Stein? Better did and what the dodgers are doing goes against the spirit of the collective bargaining agreement. It shouldn't be allowed to happen.
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Jan 14, 2024 3:00:41 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 14, 2024 3:00:41 GMT -5
The home grown guys were the main reason for the Yankees dynasty in the late 90s/early 2000s. Yes they added some big names to fill in some gaps, but the best players were drafted. Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Bernie Williams, Andy Pettite and Mariano Rivera all came from the farm.
At that point they were also tapped into the international market better than anyone, which gave them a leg up on landing a lot of international players. It was only after Matsui that all MLB teams started really looking at Japanese players.
Tino Martinez was acquired from the Mariners in a trade.
They did sign a number of veteran pitchers during their Dynasty run, but they were all mainly past their prime. They pitched well, but they were certainly helped with run support and having the best closer in the game.
The Dodgers don't have a dynasty, they're trying to buy one. Outside of Kershaw, their best players all came from somewhere else.
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Jan 14, 2024 10:08:36 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 14, 2024 10:08:36 GMT -5
Dodgers' team spending on free agents this off season has reached over a billion dollars and 5 times the second and third place teams (Phillies and Giants) who have committed about $200 million. That might be enough to get a couple of rings but I don't think much more than a couple. The Ohtani and Yamamoto signings are not purely a baseball move because as a baseball move, it doesn't make sense. They are really trying to push their brand in Asia and that is where the money is.
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Jan 14, 2024 12:32:27 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 14, 2024 12:32:27 GMT -5
Any rings because we DIDN'T spend is unacceptable.
Farhan, as we all continue to point out, goes on the cheap, shopping at Walmart and the Dollar store rather than Dillards or other top end shops.
Because of that, we continually get hosed.
And I continue to say that IF THE MORON had a plan, and that plan was to develop our kids, I would be okay with not spending.
But he isn't willing to commit to that, and again, we will get hosed.
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Jan 14, 2024 13:18:41 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 14, 2024 13:18:41 GMT -5
Giants are third or fourth in spending so it’s not on the cheap. But good that so far they are avoiding high end guys like Snell. Hicks actually cost more than Stroman because there were more years. If you look at the spending graph, the Dodgers are spending an insane amount, five times the second biggest spender. As I mentioned previously, this is to help push their brand in Asia and they actually might make it all back due to sales of hats and jerseys.
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Jan 14, 2024 19:55:50 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 14, 2024 19:55:50 GMT -5
Snell reportedly asked the Giants for 9 years/$270 million and they backed off. That is wise.
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Jan 14, 2024 21:52:16 GMT -5
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reedonly likes this
Post by Islandboagie on Jan 14, 2024 21:52:16 GMT -5
Boly- Any rings because we DIDN'T spend is unacceptable.
Farhan, as we all continue to point out, goes on the cheap, shopping at Walmart and the Dollar store rather than Dillards or other top end shops.
Because of that, we continually get hosed.
And I continue to say that IF THE MORON had a plan, and that plan was to develop our kids, I would be okay with not spending.
But he isn't willing to commit to that, and again, we will get hosed.
Boagie- I agree, he should commit to letting the kids play. But at the same time I think kids do need some good veterans to direct them down the right path.
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Jan 15, 2024 8:14:32 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 15, 2024 8:14:32 GMT -5
They are looking at the youngsters as multipliers. The more kids at one time, the greater chance for failure. If the chance of success is 60%, they run one kid out there it’s 60% success, three kids is 60%x60%x60% and so forth
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Jan 15, 2024 9:13:16 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 15, 2024 9:13:16 GMT -5
Boly- Any rings because we DIDN'T spend is unacceptable. Farhan, as we all continue to point out, goes on the cheap, shopping at Walmart and the Dollar store rather than Dillards or other top end shops. Because of that, we continually get hosed. And I continue to say that IF THE MORON had a plan, and that plan was to develop our kids, I would be okay with not spending. But he isn't willing to commit to that, and again, we will get hosed. Boagie- I agree, he should commit to letting the kids play. But at the same time I think kids do need some good veterans to direct them down the right path. Absolutely! Veteran presence is needed, But we don't need an outfield full of them
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Jan 15, 2024 9:14:30 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 15, 2024 9:14:30 GMT -5
They are looking at the youngsters as multipliers. The more kids at one time, the greater chance for failure. If the chance of success is 60%, they run one kid out there it’s 60% success, three kids is 60%x60%x60% and so forth If that is what he is doing and I agree it is what is the point that he realijust if you're going to build a winner in house, it takes time You have to run them out there and let them grow
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Jan 15, 2024 9:19:32 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 15, 2024 9:19:32 GMT -5
I agree they need to run them out there but I think they will not be all out there at the same time. -
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Jan 15, 2024 10:49:20 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 15, 2024 10:49:20 GMT -5
I agree they need to run them out there but I think they will not be all out there at the same time. - Back in the 1970's when the Dodgers built their team, Garvey, Cey, Lopes, Buckner, Yeager and Russell were out there most of the time.
That's 6 of the 8 spots.
Why can't we do something similar?
Bailey, Schmidtt, Luciano, Estrada, in the infield.
Matos and either Fitz or Ramos or Meckler in the outfield.
Yes, many of them are not proven.
BUT, neither were Garvey and Cey and Lopes etc.
Thing is, IF our moron leader, Farhan refuses to commit to do doing that, we have a hybrid team in the field that delays growth, and sets the timetable back even further for us to EVER have a chance.
I've prob
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Jan 15, 2024 16:40:23 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 15, 2024 16:40:23 GMT -5
Giants are third or fourth in spending so it’s not on the cheap. But good that so far they are avoiding high end guys like Snell. Hicks actually cost more than Stroman because there were more years. If you look at the spending graph, the Dodgers are spending an insane amount, five times the second biggest spender. As I mentioned previously, this is to help push their brand in Asia and they actually might make it all back due to sales of hats and jerseys. Also, spending at the high levels is ownership’s decision, not just FZ’s
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Jan 15, 2024 20:14:18 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 15, 2024 20:14:18 GMT -5
I'm not doubting you, Reed, but I am hard pressed to believe ownership, with Buster as a part of it, would agree to pay players who DON'T FIT in our ball park, (Conforto, Hanniger), big money.
Makes no sense.
Oh. Wait.
I forgot.
Ownership doesn't care if we win or not.
They just want people coming to the games buying stuff.
Which makes Farhan the mouth piece whose job is to spread the lie that ownership is really committed to winning.
I haven't mentioned this in YEARS, but I didn't want that putz as our guy to begin with!
Can't help but wonder what Roger thinks about "his guy."
Remember, Rog loved the hire.
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Jan 15, 2024 23:04:09 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 15, 2024 23:04:09 GMT -5
Rog didn't just love the hire, he said Farhan would be a better GM than Sabean.
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Jan 16, 2024 9:18:13 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 16, 2024 9:18:13 GMT -5
Yeah he got close on that one.... Not!
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Jan 16, 2024 9:42:13 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 16, 2024 9:42:13 GMT -5
I believe Roger would have been an apologist for Zaidi. I believe there is a guy who posts on McCovey Chronicles as “Roger “ is the same person. Similar train of thought but less pompous so I’m not 100% sure if it is him.
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Jan 16, 2024 13:41:09 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 16, 2024 13:41:09 GMT -5
I believe Roger would have been an apologist for Zaidi. I believe there is a guy who posts on McCovey Chronicles as “Roger “ is the same person. Similar train of thought but less pompous so I’m not 100% sure if it is him. I hadn't thought of that, Reed, but I believe you are correct.
He would have been an apologist.
I've known Rog for a long time, and if what you are reading on the McCovey Chronicles is less pompous... likely not him
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Jan 16, 2024 19:05:34 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 16, 2024 19:05:34 GMT -5
I've heard Mark and Mordy say Rog is less pompous on other platforms, so it could be him.
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Jan 17, 2024 2:30:25 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 17, 2024 2:30:25 GMT -5
I now think it is not the same guy. The guy who used to post here really worshipped sabermetrics and would belittle those of us who did not agree with him. Also, he would make multiple posts asking us to educate him. The poster in mccovey chronicles is far more restrained.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:41:27 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 18, 2024 20:41:27 GMT -5
The way the CBT works is that the player's average annual value counts toward a team having to pay a luxury tax. The first threshold is team salary of $237 million. It is complicated and if a team goes over the luxury tax level multiple years, the fines escalate and there are multipliers at higher team salary levels. The team salary changes throughout the year when they add or subtract players. If they trade the player off, the new team assumes the salary hit toward the luxury tax unless there is an agreement in place that the original team pays the salary (for example, the Mets are still paying Scherzer and Verlander). If a team releases a player, it still counts as part of team salary (like laStella last year or Zack Cosart in 2019) against luxury tax. Here are the rules copied from MLB.com The following thresholds were put in place per the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement:
2022: $230 million
2023: $233 million
2024: $237 million
2025: $241 million
2026: $244 million
A club that exceeds the Competitive Balance Tax threshold is subject to an increasing tax rate depending on how many consecutive years it has done so.
First year: 20 percent tax on all overages
Second consecutive year: 30 percent
Third consecutive year or more: 50 percent
If a club dips below the luxury tax threshold for a season, the penalty level is reset. So, a club that exceeds the threshold for two straight seasons but then drops below that level would be back at 20 percent the next time it exceeds the threshold.
There’s also a surcharge threshold for clubs that exceed the base threshold by $20 million or more.
$20 million to $40 million: 12 percent surcharge
$40 million to $60 million: 42.5 percent surcharge for first year; 45 percent for each consecutive year after that
$60 million or more: 60 percent surcharge
Clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead. Then how on God's green earth can the Dodgers do what they are doing, pay what they are paying?
They have become what the Yankees were under Steinbrenner. A bought and paid for pennant winning team.
Just not right.
I hated when Stein did it, and I hate it now.
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Jan 19, 2024 9:28:41 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 19, 2024 9:28:41 GMT -5
The above graphic illustrates the spending. Giants are actually at high end and Dodgers are in stratosphere. As #22 says. Let em spend all their money. This could bite them.
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Jan 19, 2024 16:04:20 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 19, 2024 16:04:20 GMT -5
The difference is, the Dodgers invested in big time players.
The Giants?
K-Mart
Target
Walmart
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Jan 20, 2024 8:28:51 GMT -5
Post by pachyderm on Jan 20, 2024 8:28:51 GMT -5
The difference is, the Dodgers invested in big time players. The Giants? K-Mart Target Walmart Dollar General... Cut out bin at Record Bar...
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Jan 20, 2024 9:17:27 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 20, 2024 9:17:27 GMT -5
Good add patch!
I don't think I have seen a Dollar General near me here in Idaho
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Jan 20, 2024 10:31:57 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 20, 2024 10:31:57 GMT -5
Actually they bid but apparently lights are not as bold and bright in SF as in LA.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:26:03 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 20, 2024 20:26:03 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd rather be the Giants right now than the Dodgers. Even if the Dodgers win the World Series this season, they will have done it by buying it. There's no glory in that. Sure, winning is better than losing, but I'd rather have the opportunity to do it the right way.
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