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Jan 20, 2024 21:02:45 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 20, 2024 21:02:45 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd rather be the Giants right now than the Dodgers. Even if the Dodgers win the World Series this season, they will have done it by buying it. There's no glory in that. Sure, winning is better than losing, but I'd rather have the opportunity to do it the right way. A lot of Dodger fans and some of the less mature players (Joc) count the 2020 Championship as a championship. This also extends to the Lakers, and to the colleges. They just count the rings and banners no matter how much they stack the odds in their favor. However, what is strange is that guys like Kershaw found the 2020 championship to be empty and somewhat fraudulant because they didn't get the full season in and there was no parade. And the Rams did not want to share their parade with the Dodgers and Lakers, as was their right. Stacking the odds is the Los Angeles way and their fans are the most entitled. USC and USC were buying Rose Bowls and Final Fours years before the Dodgers and Lakers got there, O'malley did it, Buss did it and are still doing it, and now the Guggenheim group is doing it.
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Jan 21, 2024 9:36:26 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 21, 2024 9:36:26 GMT -5
Fans and players do not see it that way.
For george's yankees when they won, Very few people were saying they bought the championship.
The only one saying that were other teams and some media outlets who did not like the yankees.
Not one yankee fan said that
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Jan 21, 2024 12:14:21 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 21, 2024 12:14:21 GMT -5
Are you referring to the late 90s-early 2000s Yankees, Boly?
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Jan 21, 2024 12:22:49 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 21, 2024 12:22:49 GMT -5
LA fans even count the NBA in season tournament. What is amazing to me is the Lakers hanging a banner for that one. So they put up banners for in season tournaments, bubble championships and stolen Minneapolis championships. Lakers definitely covering all their championships. Maybe they can put pre-season ones up next. That seems to be a disgrace to hang that participation banner next to the real ones (Kobe refused to hang divisional champion banners). Even worse was LeBron saying it was a big deal to be the first ("something that will live on forever for sure here"). The only big deal was the money the younger players won but otherwise it’s a joke. Fans and Lakers treated it like a mini championship but maybe it’s the season highlight after they get bounced in the playoffs. Its shameful that they are even selling t shirts, gold medallions, and framed collages for the in season tournament. This shows the entitlement mentality of the Los Angeles teams and fans. Lakers Banner Article
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Jan 21, 2024 17:32:16 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 21, 2024 17:32:16 GMT -5
Are you referring to the late 90s-early 2000s Yankees, Boly? I am. I'm referring to the years when Steinbrenner was buying his teams and even though he didn't win necessarily a lot of World Series the fans didn't care. They were in first place and they were in the world series or darned close to it
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Jan 21, 2024 17:54:51 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 21, 2024 17:54:51 GMT -5
They drafted most of the core of those teams, Boly. And they won 4 world series in 5 years.
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Jan 22, 2024 9:24:02 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 22, 2024 9:24:02 GMT -5
The Yankees give credit to Sabean for a lot of their success during that time frame.
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Jan 22, 2024 10:43:43 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 22, 2024 10:43:43 GMT -5
They drafted most of the core of those teams, Boly. And they won 4 world series in 5 years. No question. BUT, and maybe I have the years wrong, they were signing BIG BIG names to huge contacts so other teams could not get them. At that time they were known as THE BEST TEAM MONEY COULD BUY.
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Jan 22, 2024 10:44:26 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 22, 2024 10:44:26 GMT -5
The Yankees give credit to Sabean for a lot of their success during that time frame. And we give him a ton of credit for ours, and rightfully so
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Jan 23, 2024 11:33:26 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 23, 2024 11:33:26 GMT -5
Boly- No question.
BUT, and maybe I have the years wrong, they were signing BIG BIG names to huge contacts so other teams could not get them.
At that time they were known as THE BEST TEAM MONEY COULD BUY.
Boagie- They definitely signed some big name players. Roger Clemens, David Cone, Gary Sheffield, Darryl Strawberry to name a few..but those guys weren't necessarily in their prime, they just happened to be big names. The Yankees definitely benefitted from having that extra money to spend, but those players just fit a supporting role, not the core players that won them Championships.
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Jan 23, 2024 18:47:23 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 23, 2024 18:47:23 GMT -5
The Yankees were not like the Dodgers are. The Dodgers were not really purchased as a baseball team but more of a media company and a fashion brand. The big money is in the broadcasting rights so that’s where the money stream comes in and now they just added the money from the Asia branding. If the Giants really wanted to, they could flex their real estate money but I think they are more careful with their money. Some of these teams are not really baseball teams anymore. The attitude of the Giants seems to have shifted after they became a real estate mogul and in actuality, Zaidi fits their economic agenda.
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Jan 23, 2024 21:03:16 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 23, 2024 21:03:16 GMT -5
All that is true, Reed BUT, these last couple of years, WS winners or not, they STILL bought their team, they'll win the division AGAIN...
And again, we'll be left standing by a closed and locked door with no hope of prying it open
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Jan 24, 2024 3:37:53 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 24, 2024 3:37:53 GMT -5
The good thing is we don't need to win the division to make the post-season. So the Dodgers aren't standing in our way, Zaidi is. He has zero clue on how to build a Championship team.
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Jan 24, 2024 5:06:55 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 24, 2024 5:06:55 GMT -5
Actually what stands in the way of the Giants and championships is FZ and ownership group.
The goal of the Giants is not a baseball championship. The goal is capital gains and appreciation of the value of the team and the real estate project. The "somewhat break even" statement actually states the goal of the owners to keep it go through the motions on the field and not use a lot of money, let the value of the team, ballpark, and Mission Rock appreciate year after year and it's considered a successful season. Mission Rock does not support baseball, the baseball side is collateral and financial backing for Mission Rock.
The Mission Rock Project is a lot more sneaky and ominous than I have ever thought. When the Giants were trying to push through the Mission Rock ballot measure, they touted things like how it would be an income stream for the Giants ballclub, they were good neighbors who wanted to redevelop a neighborhood, and produce low cost housing. When interviewed about Mission Rock, Greg Johnson said not to expect it to be used on the Giants "maybe enough to buy a second baseman". To be honest, it was better before they started the development because there is not a huge traffic snarl around the ballpark and a lot of auto emission pollution. The thing is that Mission Rocl gave the ownership group $2.5 billion windfall that will not be used on the Giants. The lead guy on whenthegiantscometotown agrees that there has been a seismic attitude shift ever since they won the Mission Rock election.
Zaidi essentially is doing what the ownership wants. He doesn't have a blank check, he keeps the team's financials good, and the real money is in the value appreciation over the years.
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Jan 24, 2024 9:14:36 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 24, 2024 9:14:36 GMT -5
The good thing is we don't need to win the division to make the post-season. So the Dodgers aren't standing in our way, Zaidi is. He has zero clue on how to build a Championship team. Oh, I think he has a clue but I believe he has been mandated to keep costs down and to give the appearances of trying to contend and going after the big free agents but not really truly do so.
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Jan 24, 2024 9:24:25 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 24, 2024 9:24:25 GMT -5
The good thing is we don't need to win the division to make the post-season. So the Dodgers aren't standing in our way, Zaidi is. He has zero clue on how to build a Championship team. Based upon all of my previous posts on this th, red, that is precisely my point. F z is the guy standing in the way! Time for him to be shown the door!
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Jan 24, 2024 9:28:41 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 24, 2024 9:28:41 GMT -5
The good thing is we don't need to win the division to make the post-season. So the Dodgers aren't standing in our way, Zaidi is. He has zero clue on how to build a Championship team. Based upon all of my previous posts on this th, red, that is precisely my point. F z is the guy standing in the way! Time for him to be shown the door! I think the bigger problem is the ownership group. The current group is really sketchy and they are using the baseball club as a way of lining their pockets. There's a lot of blame and rot to go around up and down the organization but I think they can turn it around if they keep focusing on the young talent and developmental facilities for same. Good scouting and good development has been the blueprint for most of the history of baseball and it should be a red flag if an organization has to rely on a quick fix.
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Jan 24, 2024 10:50:36 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 24, 2024 10:50:36 GMT -5
The good thing is we don't need to win the division to make the post-season. So the Dodgers aren't standing in our way, Zaidi is. He has zero clue on how to build a Championship team. I agree that the Dodgers are not the problem. They made a lot of big signings but from a baseball standpoint, it is a huge risk. Ohtani, Glasnow, and Paxton have extensive injury history. Yamamoto is a question mark because he's coming from Japan. Even with Ohtani providing deferment, it is a lot of money to spend for these kinds of players. Dodgers might have impressed in December and it is a big deal for PR in Asia but I get the feeling that a lot of their outlay will end up on the IL.
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Jan 24, 2024 13:08:11 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 24, 2024 13:08:11 GMT -5
Based upon all of my previous posts on this th, red, that is precisely my point. F z is the guy standing in the way! Time for him to be shown the door! I think the bigger problem is the ownership group. The current group is really sketchy and they are using the baseball club as a way of lining their pockets. There's a lot of blame and rot to go around up and down the organization but I think they can turn it around if they keep focusing on the young talent and developmental facilities for same. Good scouting and good development has been the blueprint for most of the history of baseball and it should be a red flag if an organization has to rely on a quick fix. And I agree with you.
IF they would focus on the young talent...
And I would add IF THEY LET THEM PLAY!
But the more I read the more I see/hear that they want to be competitive. And to do that they keep signing used up guys who 'might' help.
But as we've talked about to DEATH, that retards the development of players.
They refuse to commit to a rebuild, and that, IMHO, is asinine! Foolish. Self defeating and downright stupid!
"America," as the Sean Connery character said in "Rising Sun," "is obsessed with fixing the blame. The Japanese fix the problem. There way is better."
And I agree!
Flush the toilet!
Get rid of Farhan and Baer! (yeah. like that's going to happen.)
And, IMHO, until Buster exerts enough influence, the organization and fans will continue to be hosed.
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Jan 24, 2024 13:09:50 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 24, 2024 13:09:50 GMT -5
The good thing is we don't need to win the division to make the post-season. So the Dodgers aren't standing in our way, Zaidi is. He has zero clue on how to build a Championship team. I agree that the Dodgers are not the problem. They made a lot of big signings but from a baseball standpoint, it is a huge risk. Ohtani, Glasnow, and Paxton have extensive injury history. Yamamoto is a question mark because he's coming from Japan. Even with Ohtani providing deferment, it is a lot of money to spend for these kinds of players. Dodgers might have impressed in December and it is a big deal for PR in Asia but I get the feeling that a lot of their outlay will end up on the IL. We'll see, Reed, but I disagree.
Yes, Paxton is a risk, but so what? With their other signings, they are going to be a juggernaut no one in the West can beat for a long time.
And since we won't commit, as I continue to rant, we're screwed.
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Jan 24, 2024 15:01:04 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 24, 2024 15:01:04 GMT -5
I agree that the Dodgers are not the problem. They made a lot of big signings but from a baseball standpoint, it is a huge risk. Ohtani, Glasnow, and Paxton have extensive injury history. Yamamoto is a question mark because he's coming from Japan. Even with Ohtani providing deferment, it is a lot of money to spend for these kinds of players. Dodgers might have impressed in December and it is a big deal for PR in Asia but I get the feeling that a lot of their outlay will end up on the IL. We'll see, Reed, but I disagree.
Yes, Paxton is a risk, but so what? With their other signings, they are going to be a juggernaut no one in the West can beat for a long time.
And since we won't commit, as I continue to rant, we're screwed.For this season, they might be able to get away with using all those injury prone players but, as you know, the best predictor of future injuries is past injury history meaning depending on Ohtani, Glasnow, Paxton, Buehler, and Lux. Remember, after Yamamoto was signed, I mentioned that every signing from here on out is a potential mistake because everyone left on the board was either old, injury prone, inconsistent, or some combination. The Dodgers signing Teoscar Hernandez is the big blow but its only a one year deal. The Ohtani and Glasnow contracts are potential albatrosses for the future. I think the Giants are screwed for 2024 but the Dodgers gave long term deals to injury prone guys and I think some of those deals were not good ideas, and similar to throwing money to the likes of Bellinger and Chapman.
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Jan 24, 2024 15:53:38 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 24, 2024 15:53:38 GMT -5
I sure hope you are right.
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Jan 24, 2024 21:16:42 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 24, 2024 21:16:42 GMT -5
I sure hope you are right. I can't speak for Boagie but I think he's feeling it, also. What the Dodgers are trying to do feels wrong from a baseball perspective.
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Jan 25, 2024 0:28:15 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 25, 2024 0:28:15 GMT -5
From a baseball perspective I don't think the Ohtani deal is a good one, from a business perspective it is, at least in the short term. Yes, they will rake in the revenue...but if Ohtani's arm goes to hell and/or they start losing, it will be a disaster.
Ohtani makes revenue money because he's the best all around player, and the Japanese idolize him. If his abilities fade away, so will the revenue. The Japanese culture is always in step with what's new and cool, if Ohtani isn't cool anymore the money will dry up fast and the Dodgers will be stuck with a huge bill. As Giants fans, that's what we have to hope for.
We have to hope for that because of the future implications. Right now, the Guggenheim partners are investing for the future, if everything goes as they planned, the baseball branch of their company will become it's own entity and they will have an unlimited amount to spend on securing their dominance.
Right now the money they're spending will come out of their pockets if it goes bad. They're smart investors, they invest to make money. If they start losing money they'll cut bait and run. This is the best case scenario for us.
Regardless, we can still beat them on the field..but we have to get a capable GM and manager to make that happen. Nothing will hit their pockets more than if the Giants raise another Championship banner before the Dodgers.
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Jan 25, 2024 9:18:14 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 25, 2024 9:18:14 GMT -5
I sure hope you are right. I can't speak for Boagie but I think he's feeling it, also. What the Dodgers are trying to do feels wrong from a baseball perspective. I agree. I've said that before that. What the dodgers are doing goes against The intent of the baseball agreement.
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Jan 25, 2024 10:31:01 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 25, 2024 10:31:01 GMT -5
Often the agreement protects the smaller investors who don’t have a say. For example, San Diego needed to take out loans to pay their superstars last season that they loaded up on because the main owner was dying but MLB intervened to protect the minority investors by limiting the loans.
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Jan 25, 2024 10:47:47 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 25, 2024 10:47:47 GMT -5
I can't speak for Boagie but I think he's feeling it, also. What the Dodgers are trying to do feels wrong from a baseball perspective. I agree. I've said that before that. What the dodgers are doing goes against The intent of the baseball agreement. It isn’t the spirit of the agreement but it goes against a lot of common sense. A lot of resources to be given to injury prone or older players is not wise. Freeman is 35 and right about at the age where players decline. Ohtani is an injury risk now with two elbow procedures done. Sometimes it is wise to go “no deal” if it doesn’t look completely right.
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Jan 29, 2024 18:48:32 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 29, 2024 18:48:32 GMT -5
All that is true, Reed BUT, these last couple of years, WS winners or not, they STILL bought their team, they'll win the division AGAIN... And again, we'll be left standing by a closed and locked door with no hope of prying it open The thing is, they probably dont care about the baseball team anymore, it is now prioritized as a side hustle. The big money is mission rock
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