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Jan 7, 2024 18:31:38 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 7, 2024 18:31:38 GMT -5
Reed- That being said, the $8 million paid to Murphy is not a big deal but I don't want to hear about it as an excuse later on not to sign someone if they do not want to trigger the CBT.
Boagie- $8 million is still $8 million, and it's a lot to pay a guy we didn't even need. I'm not sure what number they stopped at on the Japanese pitcher, but I'd rather have them pay more for a player they do need, than wastefully spending on players they don't need. Maybe $8 million more wouldn't have landed him, but if that $8 million wasn't spent, the owners would've okayed $10-$20 million more. Who knows..
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Jan 7, 2024 18:54:32 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 7, 2024 18:54:32 GMT -5
Reed- That being said, the $8 million paid to Murphy is not a big deal but I don't want to hear about it as an excuse later on not to sign someone if they do not want to trigger the CBT. Boagie- $8 million is still $8 million, and it's a lot to pay a guy we didn't even need. I'm not sure what number they stopped at on the Japanese pitcher, but I'd rather have them pay more for a player they do need, than wastefully spending on players they don't need. Maybe $8 million more wouldn't have landed him, but if that $8 million wasn't spent, the owners would've okayed $10-$20 million more. Who knows.. From what I have read, YY told the Giants that they did a good job in presentation but he was not interested anymore so they were not able to put in a final bid. YY used meetings with Yankees and MEts to push it over $325 million and get a lot of perks from the Dodgers. As such, the $8 million was not enough leverage to get YY but you are right in that his is $8 million wasted when they already have Bart and Sabol. In the case of Yamamoto, he already had his mind made up. By the way, I heard a story that the Giants presented Ohtani with a "welcome Shohei Ohtani" banner but the problem was that it was in Chinese, not Japanese. Some Chinese characters are used by both Japanese and Chinese so I'm not sure if there is much to this story. Strange little things are coming out.
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Jan 7, 2024 20:09:58 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 7, 2024 20:09:58 GMT -5
In Chinese? Why am I NOT surprised.
My first 9 years in teaching, I was at Villanova Preparatory High School in Ojai California.
We were a small school, never more than 250 students, around 75 of them foreign, boarding students.
I was the head baseball coach and we had players from Japan, Mexico and other countries.
In the dorm, they had a BUGGER of a time keeping the Japanese and Chinese students from killing each other!
Japanese/Chinese hate is legendary.
And to NOT check the language on a banner?
Unforgiveable!
But then, THAT's what I expect from Giant's management.
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Jan 9, 2024 17:42:01 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 9, 2024 17:42:01 GMT -5
One day, they are frontrunners for Imanaga, next day they are out. I'm not sure what in the world is going on. It really is not a good look.
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Jan 9, 2024 23:13:15 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 9, 2024 23:13:15 GMT -5
Well now they're supposedly interested in Marcus Stroman. What a horrible mistake that would be..
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Jan 10, 2024 3:15:06 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 10, 2024 3:15:06 GMT -5
Anything at this point onward will be a mistake. This is where FZ starts to spend the money recklessly because he feels he needs to on players that are not that good or broken. It will get ugly from here in out. Stroman is not someone they should be interested in and I would actually rather see them sign Trevor Bauer and I don't like Trevor Bauer. Stroman posts antisemitic conspiracy theories on Twitter during his spare time. Stroman is someone who Kapler would like but I think it would play poorly in the rest of the clubhouse. If they go after Stroman, they should give equal chance to Bauer, Clevinger, or Urias, all of whom are better than most of the FA pitchers left on the board.
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Jan 10, 2024 10:44:57 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 10, 2024 10:44:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, Reed... but it presents a bleak outlook for what already was a bleak looking season.
Only thing we have left, really, is to hope and pray that FZ doesn't go any further stupid then he already has... yeah! That's likely!
And that the kids get to play and play and play.
Heard him talking about Ramos winning a job...hopefully, to provide power.
I would love to see that... but every time he's come up, he's floundered MISERABLY!
Kid looks like he is clueless at the plate.
Me?
I love FITZ and Schmidt and Luciano, and to a lesser extent, Matos.
We don't need Chapman, which of course, means we'll ink him this week or next week.
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Jan 10, 2024 12:59:02 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 10, 2024 12:59:02 GMT -5
Per Bowden: The Imanaga contract was for 2 years/$30 million with escalators up to $80 million with multiple opt outs. If the Giants did not match that, I'm thinking that Imanaga did not grade out well because that seems like a contract that would be given to a third tier pitcher. Being a fly ball pitcher, Imanaga might not like playing half his games in Wrigley. Seems kind of unusual to be "all in" and then back out so abruptly but it must be noted that the big guns like the Dodgers and Yankees were also not in on him and Angels backed out as well.
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Jan 10, 2024 14:24:20 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 10, 2024 14:24:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, Reed... but it presents a bleak outlook for what already was a bleak looking season. Only thing we have left, really, is to hope and pray that FZ doesn't go any further stupid then he already has... yeah! That's likely! And that the kids get to play and play and play. Heard him talking about Ramos winning a job...hopefully, to provide power. I would love to see that... but every time he's come up, he's floundered MISERABLY! Kid looks like he is clueless at the plate. Me? I love FITZ and Schmidt and Luciano, and to a lesser extent, Matos. We don't need Chapman, which of course, means we'll ink him this week or next week. I figure each of the kids has a 50-60% chance to succeed but the more kids in regular roles, the less chance of all of them succeeding. Harrison, Luciano, Matos, and Winn seem to have the best chance to win regular jobs. I would rather follow a team with more kids than the older guys sacrificing 2024 if the long game is to make a push in 2025 but I'm afraid he's going to go with someone on a long term deal that ends up blocking a youngster. I'm thinking they will need a #2-3 starter and the backup SS type. I would not be surprised if we see a familiar wearing 35 (would certainly be better than Tim Anderson).
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Jan 10, 2024 16:43:30 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 10, 2024 16:43:30 GMT -5
Reed- Anything at this point onward will be a mistake.
Boagie- I agree. I think we have a decent roster for our younger guys to get enough playing time. Then we can fill holes next off-season, with our current roster we don't even know where the holes are.
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Jan 10, 2024 21:21:15 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 10, 2024 21:21:15 GMT -5
Per Bowden: The Imanaga contract was for 2 years/$30 million with escalators up to $80 million with multiple opt outs. If the Giants did not match that, I'm thinking that Imanaga did not grade out well because that seems like a contract that would be given to a third tier pitcher. Being a fly ball pitcher, Imanaga might not like playing half his games in Wrigley. Seems kind of unusual to be "all in" and then back out so abruptly but it must be noted that the big guns like the Dodgers and Yankees were also not in on him and Angels backed out as well. NIghtengale said Cubs paid 4 yr/$53 million with 5 year option to make it $80 million. Pavlovic said the Giants felt he was more of a back of the rotation level so were not in on him and are looking elsewhere. The Giants could have used a back end starter to stablize the rotation but they probably did not want to commit more than a year and they don't want another pitcher who pitches like Ross Stripling. Rumors that they were frontrunners were false. I might have done it to replace Alex Wood's spot.
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Jan 11, 2024 11:00:36 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 11, 2024 11:00:36 GMT -5
Reed- Anything at this point onward will be a mistake. Boagie- I agree. I think we have a decent roster for our younger guys to get enough playing time. Then we can fill holes next off-season, with our current roster we don't even know where the holes are. The mindset of the team is that they will probably get at least two more free agents and make another (futile) push for low seed in the playoffs. The two areas they are most uncomfortable with are backup SS and middle to back end of rotation pitchers. FZ will probably go after a big name free agent to say that he has done his due diligence but at this point, the free agent he gets has to be an upgrade. The names I'm hearing most are Stroman, Chapman, and Bellinger and if he has to sign one or more of those, they need to make it a shorter term deal because they really do not represent much of an upgrade. I think they spent so much attention on the futile pursuits of Ohtani and Yamamoto that the ship has sailed on guys like Giolito and Kiermeier (lesser cost guys who are almost as good as bigger name players). The best alternative is what you say to let the kids play but you know this is not the way they run.
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Jan 11, 2024 20:02:32 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 11, 2024 20:02:32 GMT -5
JD was not signed pre-arb so that might mean they’re going for Chapman
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Jan 11, 2024 20:57:31 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 11, 2024 20:57:31 GMT -5
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Jan 11, 2024 23:50:40 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 11, 2024 23:50:40 GMT -5
One less potential mistake: Stroman to Yankees.
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Jan 12, 2024 9:06:57 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 12, 2024 9:06:57 GMT -5
One less potential mistake: Stroman to Yankees. Ahhhhhh. Not to worry plenty of mistakes out there still to be signed
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Jan 12, 2024 14:07:22 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 12, 2024 14:07:22 GMT -5
The Jordan Hicks signing might make sense. He’s 27, has a 100 mph fastball and can be used as a starter or reliever. Feels a little better than signing Stroman.
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Jan 12, 2024 22:55:00 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 12, 2024 22:55:00 GMT -5
We could have done a lot worse.
Everybody feels in the j j roll, He's an upgrade.
And who knows, Maybe they turned him into a starter and things worked out nicely if he fits into the three, Four, Or five slot
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Jan 13, 2024 7:23:01 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 13, 2024 7:23:01 GMT -5
We could have done a lot worse. Everybody feels in the j j roll, He's an upgrade. And who knows, Maybe they turned him into a starter and things worked out nicely if he fits into the three, Four, Or five slot Slusser feels Hicks is replacing deSclafani not Junis. I’m guessing Beck will be shifted to the Junis role because he seems to lose effectiveness after three innings.
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Jan 13, 2024 9:19:16 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 13, 2024 9:19:16 GMT -5
I hope that is what they do because I do not want to Waste a hundred mile an hour arm Pitching every eighth or ninth day
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 13, 2024 9:48:12 GMT -5
I actually like the signing. Now they need to release Stripling and Conforto.
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Jan 13, 2024 10:47:24 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 13, 2024 10:47:24 GMT -5
I think this is a good signing because it helps the team now and will help the team in a few years. Upside is they end up with a guy like Gausman. Downside is a bullpen arm to pair with Doval at the end of games. Note that this is actually a larger contract than Stroman's. At the very least, it will bridge the gap until Robbie Ray and Alex Cobb return. Kurtenbach just ran an article praising this deal saying that the Giants kept their head amidst all the noise clamoring for big name superstar. He said it was "good business".
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Jan 13, 2024 13:48:08 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 13, 2024 13:48:08 GMT -5
I actually like the signing. Now they need to release Stripling and Conforto. I like the move, also.
But no way they release Conforto. He has 'some' trade value.
I think they have plans for him to be the LH DH.
Personally, I'd rather they trade Conforto, and then go out and get a 1B who plays good defense, and use Lamont as the LH Dh.
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Jan 13, 2024 14:43:25 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 13, 2024 14:43:25 GMT -5
No way he’s released because they take a cap hit if released. If traded the other team gets the cap hit.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:26:14 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Jan 13, 2024 15:26:14 GMT -5
Next pitcher they get will probably be on the level of Lorenzen. Snell and Montgomery too expensive and most of the rest are either not good, toxic personalities, or enemies of the front office (those who don’t like FZ like Bum and Wood).
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Jan 13, 2024 18:53:55 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 13, 2024 18:53:55 GMT -5
Reed- No way he’s released because they take a cap hit if released. If traded the other team gets the cap hit.
Boagie- If they can trade him, great, but who wants Conforto as a DH? We don't even want him and we're one of the worst teams. I look at getting rid of Conforto and/or Stripling as addition by subtraction.
How would we hit the cap and pay more if we released him? I'm not that well versed on all the contract and cap business, maybe you could explain it to me?
I'm about 80/20 on my interest in losing Conforto, I'd rather have anyone else in the outfield, and I'd rather have Flores or Sabol as our DH. So I really see zero value in having Conforto, but I would still root for the guy.
Stripling to me should be gone without question. I would find it very hard to root for Stripling after his horrible performance last season and the fact he called out the Giants in the media like he had any business doing so. How does one complain about not getting more opportunities when he blew every opportunity he had? You keep that stuff internal, Stripling is the kind of character that makes the clubhouse worse.
Again, I'd love if the Giants could trade either of these two, but who would want them? I think if anyone is out there, the deal would've been made already.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:22:52 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 13, 2024 19:22:52 GMT -5
The way the CBT works is that the player's average annual value counts toward a team having to pay a luxury tax. The first threshold is team salary of $237 million. It is complicated and if a team goes over the luxury tax level multiple years, the fines escalate and there are multipliers at higher team salary levels. The team salary changes throughout the year when they add or subtract players. If they trade the player off, the new team assumes the salary hit toward the luxury tax unless there is an agreement in place that the original team pays the salary (for example, the Mets are still paying Scherzer and Verlander). If a team releases a player, it still counts as part of team salary (like laStella last year or Zack Cosart in 2019) against luxury tax.
Here are the rules copied from MLB.com
The following thresholds were put in place per the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement:
2022: $230 million
2023: $233 million
2024: $237 million
2025: $241 million
2026: $244 million
A club that exceeds the Competitive Balance Tax threshold is subject to an increasing tax rate depending on how many consecutive years it has done so.
First year: 20 percent tax on all overages
Second consecutive year: 30 percent
Third consecutive year or more: 50 percent
If a club dips below the luxury tax threshold for a season, the penalty level is reset. So, a club that exceeds the threshold for two straight seasons but then drops below that level would be back at 20 percent the next time it exceeds the threshold.
There’s also a surcharge threshold for clubs that exceed the base threshold by $20 million or more.
$20 million to $40 million: 12 percent surcharge
$40 million to $60 million: 42.5 percent surcharge for first year; 45 percent for each consecutive year after that
$60 million or more: 60 percent surcharge
Clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:44:44 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 13, 2024 19:44:44 GMT -5
If a team goes over the tax threshold to the $60 million mark and are 3 year repeat offenders, they pay double salary of anything over the first tax threshold. Mets this year had to pay $101 million tax. Dodgers probably will hit that this year. The multipliers are the thing that will get the tax offenders. Dodgers can laugh off a couple of tax years but toward 2030, its going to add up. At any rate, it just shows how hard it is to just release a player because it still shows up on the books. Conforto is $18 million and Stripling is $12.5 million luxury tax hit if they are on the team or if they are released. They are off the books if traded straight up (without prior arrangement). The thing with laStella was that there was no way he was going to play so they needed the space. With Conforto and Stripling, there is a chance that they can do something. Slim chance, but a chance. If the Giants trade them at the deadline, the new team would be hit at about $9 million and $6 million for Conforto and Stripling respectively and Giants would be on the hook for the first half.
When the Red Sox released Pablo a few years ago, the Red Sox had the salary and salary cap hit on the books and Giants only had to pay the minimum.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:52:49 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 13, 2024 19:52:49 GMT -5
Boly- Personally, I'd rather they trade Conforto, and then go out and get a 1B who plays good defense, and use Lamont as the LH Dh.
Boagie- Flores is a better defender at first than Lamont. I don't know why they insist on using Lamont there so much. I agree, Lamont should be used as the left-handed DH, or as a bat off the bench. Same with Slater on the right side.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:02:24 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Jan 13, 2024 20:02:24 GMT -5
Boly- Personally, I'd rather they trade Conforto, and then go out and get a 1B who plays good defense, and use Lamont as the LH Dh. Boagie- Flores is a better defender at first than Lamont. I don't know why they insist on using Lamont there so much. I agree, Lamont should be used as the left-handed DH, or as a bat off the bench. Same with Slater on the right side. I'd love them to trade Conforto and or Stripling but they will have to trade them for someone else who has a bad contract or an injury or to a team which has cap room.
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