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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 25, 2022 9:25:44 GMT -5
I really like your optimism, and I really hope I am wrong.
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Post by reedonly on Nov 25, 2022 9:59:43 GMT -5
It is not optimism. I can tell when ownership is getting fed up. When they say he now has the financial flexibility, it takes away the "poor team" excuse and they cannot act like a small market team. Also, with Putila on board, there is a guy who is fully capable of doing FZ's job in a heartbeat. FZ was given the "vote of confidence" from Greg Johnson, the CEO but its pretty obvious that the "vote of confidence" is manager-speak for saying that the time of reckoning has come. I think FZ has been put on notice because his job security has been taken away. FZ now has to make some sort of splash or else he is going to end up being re-assigned. FZ's mantra is "no deal too small" but he might have to take a page out of San Diego's book that says "no deal too big". We know LA and San Diego have passed the Giants by and Arizona is improving. It is clear they're going to have to bump things up in order to stay competitive in the NL West.
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 25, 2022 13:55:21 GMT -5
Your last line says it all. They have to do something to be able to compete with the dodgers and the padres.
If we don't do something and do something big, we're staring last place right in the face for this next season
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 26, 2022 23:10:46 GMT -5
I don't think Farhan and Co. know what their own strategy is anymore. After last season's overall dissapointing offensive output many are questioning the whole foundation they've laid. Not only that, I believe all around baseball people are starting to question the offensive approach, which leaves these sabremetric guys scratching their heads.
Farhan has made it a point of shifting around pieces so often that now we still don't really know what we have as far as young talent moving into next season. Is Heliot Ramos a major leaguer? We should know that by now. Last year we should have seen far more of our triple-A guys. We not only were dissapointing in the box score last season, but I feel we lost a year on progress in our system too. It's very hard to convince someone like Judge to join our roster when we don't even know how that roster is going to look.
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 27, 2022 9:38:53 GMT -5
Really well said,boagie! Really well said!
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Post by reedonly on Nov 28, 2022 9:24:02 GMT -5
I don't think Farhan and Co. know what their own strategy is anymore. After last season's overall dissapointing offensive output many are questioning the whole foundation they've laid. Not only that, I believe all around baseball people are starting to question the offensive approach, which leaves these sabremetric guys scratching their heads. Farhan has made it a point of shifting around pieces so often that now we still don't really know what we have as far as young talent moving into next season. Is Heliot Ramos a major leaguer? We should know that by now. Last year we should have seen far more of our triple-A guys. We not only were dissapointing in the box score last season, but I feel we lost a year on progress in our system too. It's very hard to convince someone like Judge to join our roster when we don't even know how that roster is going to look. Ideally, the AAA club is used as a stepping stone to the big club but FZ seems to use it as a place where they dump players they get on their churn. Villar and Hjelle seemed to have graduated but I think it should have been a couple more players. The graduates need to be the Giants own prospects, not the castoffs from other clubs. Petula is a GM who emphasizes player development so maybe we will return to an organization that prioritizes that. You mention the offensive approach where they prioritize exit velocities, launch angles, and hard hit balls. The strategy can work if there is only one team doing it but it doesn't take long for word to get around and the rest of the league copying, thereby negating the edge. They may have to go back to finding and developing talent instead of achieving 107 wins by way of smoke and mirrors. I mentioned before that ownership probably has FZ on notice and this offseason will be the one that decides whether he stays or goes.
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Post by reedonly on Nov 28, 2022 9:30:34 GMT -5
I don't think Farhan and Co. know what their own strategy is anymore. After last season's overall dissapointing offensive output many are questioning the whole foundation they've laid. Not only that, I believe all around baseball people are starting to question the offensive approach, which leaves these sabremetric guys scratching their heads. Farhan has made it a point of shifting around pieces so often that now we still don't really know what we have as far as young talent moving into next season. Is Heliot Ramos a major leaguer? We should know that by now. Last year we should have seen far more of our triple-A guys. We not only were dissapointing in the box score last season, but I feel we lost a year on progress in our system too. It's very hard to convince someone like Judge to join our roster when we don't even know how that roster is going to look. What really irritates me is that FZ and Harris spent a lot of nights texting each other about missing pieces and a lot of potential solutions were already in the organization. Last year, the churn was only good for Austin Wynns.
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 28, 2022 11:12:07 GMT -5
I don't think Farhan and Co. know what their own strategy is anymore. After last season's overall dissapointing offensive output many are questioning the whole foundation they've laid. Not only that, I believe all around baseball people are starting to question the offensive approach, which leaves these sabremetric guys scratching their heads. Farhan has made it a point of shifting around pieces so often that now we still don't really know what we have as far as young talent moving into next season. Is Heliot Ramos a major leaguer? We should know that by now. Last year we should have seen far more of our triple-A guys. We not only were dissapointing in the box score last season, but I feel we lost a year on progress in our system too. It's very hard to convince someone like Judge to join our roster when we don't even know how that roster is going to look. Ideally, the AAA club is used as a stepping stone to the big club but FZ seems to use it as a place where they dump players they get on their churn. Villar and Hjelle seemed to have graduated but I think it should have been a couple more players. The graduates need to be the Giants own prospects, not the castoffs from other clubs. Petula is a GM who emphasizes player development so maybe we will return to an organization that prioritizes that. You mention the offensive approach where they prioritize exit velocities, launch angles, and hard hit balls. The strategy can work if there is only one team doing it but it doesn't take long for word to get around and the rest of the league copying, thereby negating the edge. They may have to go back to finding and developing talent instead of achieving 107 wins by way of smoke and mirrors. I mentioned before that ownership probably has FZ on notice and this offseason will be the one that decides whether he stays or goes. Reed, I sincerely hope you are correct: that ownership has put FZ on notice.
Personally, after the Yaz and other signings, that worked out so well, I changed my mind and perspective about him, and believed he was the right guy for the job.
But so much money has come off the books in recent years, including this year, and with it, he's done very little to help improve the club, continues to believe HE'S a genius and can find solid players that others have missed, but the results don't match up.
Yeah, he found Turner, and Taylor, Yaz and a couple of others... but those were years ago.
As boagie and you pointed out, our farm system, that one time looked so promising, now does not.
It appears that he either mis judged their talent, or, as Reed suggested, has begun using AAA for a holding area as they shuttle players back and forth to the big club as needed.
To me, THAT strategy is not just foolish, but down right stupid.
I want AAA to be a place where my players develop their talent and are as polished as can be before making the jump into the show.
Evidently he doesn't see it that way.
Silly me! Using the same logic that has been used for over 100 years in preparing players for the majors!
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Post by reedonly on Nov 28, 2022 11:27:10 GMT -5
I think FZ gets credit for Turner, Taylor, Muncy, and Yaz but I think he got Muncy only because he was familiar with the A's system and I think Turner was found by Tim Wallach, not FZ.
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Post by reedonly on Nov 28, 2022 11:34:34 GMT -5
Boly: It appears that he either mis judged their talent, or, as Reed suggested, has begun using AAA for a holding area as they shuttle players back and forth to the big club as needed.
I fear that the guys they obtained on the churn were taking up the necessary ABs and reps that should have gone to our true prospects.
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Post by reedonly on Nov 28, 2022 16:17:15 GMT -5
Boagie: I don't think Farhan and Co. know what their own strategy is anymore. After last season's overall dissapointing offensive output many are questioning the whole foundation they've laid. Not only that, I believe all around baseball people are starting to question the offensive approach, which leaves these sabremetric guys scratching their heads.
This is kind of like when Moneyball first started. It was good for the A's when they were the only ones doing it. When all the other teams figured out what they were doing and started copying them, the edge they had over other teams became less and eventually vanished. The launch angle, exit velocity stuff was good for one season and pitchers learned how to minimize it (Yaz) and opposing hitters started copying them. They did not seem to realize that the league caught up to them and that they needed to come up with something new. To be honest, I'm not sure if FZ can figure out something new quick enough. With the internet and all the sharing of data, the edge a team has one day could be gone a lot faster. The smartest guy in the room will end up in the same boat in a matter of weeks.
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Post by reedonly on Nov 29, 2022 11:19:00 GMT -5
Boagie: It's very hard to convince someone like Judge to join our roster when we don't even know how that roster is going to look.
Krukow does not have a lot of inside information on this but he did say that the Giants made a "compelling offer" to Judge. Judge is not only looking for the money and the location but he wants a competitive team in place to support him for the length of his contract. I don't think FZ can do it. He is too fixated on the fringe players (just signed Strotman, Delaplane, Welker, and Llovera). Now, I don't think the Yankees will do it, either because the team is starting to get a lot of holes. Judge will probably go to LA if he really wants that ring.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 5, 2022 11:26:05 GMT -5
I agree with both of you. We need a short stop it is shortstop, and pitching.. Starting pitching I've been hearing that they have touched base with Correa, Turner, and Swanson. If they sign Correa, the plan is to move Crawford to 3B. If they sign one of the other two, Crawford will be the SS and the other will be 2B.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 6, 2022 21:20:55 GMT -5
Bad choice of words On my part. I didn't do my homework. Still, a guy having one good year is not someone I'm gonna jump up-and-down over until I see more. The gap between air and judge and anyone else is gigantic. I would rather have nimo then this guy. Haniger just signed for 3Y/$43 million with an opt-out after year 2.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 7, 2022 9:37:28 GMT -5
Reed, since you updated me I did some research on Hanniger and it appears to be a solid signing.
I would rather Dansby but Correa is a nice fit, too
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Post by reedonly on Dec 8, 2022 11:40:35 GMT -5
The lower tier guys are what FZ does so I'm expecting guys like Drury, Wil Myers, or Benintendi.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 8, 2022 12:54:06 GMT -5
Geez. As I said in another thread; If he doesn't make 3 substantial moves, CF, SS, SP... and I means SUBSTANTIAL moves, we're a condemned to 3rd or 4th place for the next 2 to 4 years.
One by one we are losing out.
I'm sick and tired of his rhetoric.
He HAS the capital to make moves... but he's dragging his feet.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 9, 2022 0:10:56 GMT -5
Haniger is a good hitter, with a solid arm. I've watched him here in Seattle for a while now. He won't make us contenders, but he is a solid addition.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 9, 2022 1:42:06 GMT -5
Haniger is a good addition but I’m not sure he’s a cornerstone player.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 9, 2022 16:47:39 GMT -5
I don't believe he is either, but we haven't landed a cornerstone player from the free agent market since Bonds and I'd be surprised if we did despite all the grandiose ideas the bay area media dreams up. The fact is, agents are using Farhan to bump up their client's value, they did the same thing to Bobby Evans. Sabean was never toyed with in the same fashion.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 9, 2022 17:20:18 GMT -5
I don't believe he is either, but we haven't landed a cornerstone player from the free agent market since Bonds and I'd be surprised if we did despite all the grandiose ideas the bay area media dreams up. The fact is, agents are using Farhan to bump up their client's value, they did the same thing to Bobby Evans. Sabean was never toyed with in the same fashion. Those are GREAT points, boagie!
No one messed with Sabean.
Farhan reminds me of our president: weak, wishy-washy full of useless rhetoric and easily manipulated.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 10, 2022 10:14:59 GMT -5
I don't believe he is either, but we haven't landed a cornerstone player from the free agent market since Bonds and I'd be surprised if we did despite all the grandiose ideas the bay area media dreams up. The fact is, agents are using Farhan to bump up their client's value, they did the same thing to Bobby Evans. Sabean was never toyed with in the same fashion. I'm not sure if you count this but Zito was signed as a cornerstone piece because of how much they spent for him. He just didn't live up to his past performance.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 11, 2022 2:49:03 GMT -5
Actually I would count Zito, I was trying to think of others and I mistakenly skipped over him. Good catch.
Don't get me wrong though, I don't think we need a big name free agent...I've been saying all along all we need is a CF and a few quality arms. But hey, it's not my money, they can go after anyone they want and I'll be fine with it if it makes us better.
I just think it's a little embarrassing to be constantly named as the team making a serious run at a big name free agent and always falling short. They're clearly not very good at negotiating, so find another way to build a solid roster.
Sabean found many different ways to win. Farhan is starting to show he's really just a one trick pony. He's good at finding some value out of scrap heapers, but that's not cutting it. I'm afraid the strategy of stat geeks running the show is quickly proving to be a failed experiment.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 11, 2022 10:10:12 GMT -5
Japanese population in San Francisco is not really all that big. LA, Orange County, San Diego, and Seattle are probably more to a Japanese players' liking than San Francisco. The percentage of Japanese in San Francisco is about 1%. In the southern LA area as in Torrance and Gardena, its as high as 10% even if downtown LA is 1%. Its a subtle thing but when we visited Japan and ate their food in Japan, the food was so good over there that I got really angry. Most places in the US that make "Japanese" food make it like American or Chinese food and really don't have a clue what the true Japanese food is like. I live in the Bay Area and there are few restaurants in the area that get it. Southern Cal and Seattle have a lot more that is closer to actual (but still not quite). Southern Cal and Seattle will always have that edge on getting Japanese players. They can put up Senga's name in lights and he's going to be polite enough to say he is impressed but I would be surprised if he would sign in SF. If any of the Southern Cal teams or Seattle matches the offer, he would go there. I do not believe that the negotiating group is savvy enough to deal with the cultural differences but they cannot assume that Senga or any other Japanese player would be swayed by going to a city with a large Asian population. And now Senga to the Mets which shows me the Giants didn't know how to handle a Japanese player. Maybe they should bring back Ned Colletti to show them how to close a deal.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 11, 2022 10:43:09 GMT -5
Boagie: Farhan is starting to show he's really just a one trick pony. He's good at finding some value out of scrap heapers, but that's not cutting it. I'm afraid the strategy of stat geeks running the show is quickly proving to be a failed experiment.
I've read that the churn was a failure in 2022. For position players, 15 players totaled 498 PA and netted a WAR of -1 (and its only that good because of Austin Wynns). That's 498 PA that were given to sub-replacement players. Thats a failure by any measure whether its the old school eyeball test or stats geeks. I think even the most die hard stats geek fan could not defend FZ at this point. This metric only includes players picked up as castoffs and not players in the system. I would contend he was NOT good at shopping at the scrap heap last season. I would have rather that the bulk of those 498 PA have gone to Heliot, Vosler, and Villar.
The churn also cost us a prospect Beroa (traded for Donovan Walton). Beroa was good enough to make the Seattle 40 man and I saw they recently re-signed Walton to a minor league deal. The signing of Walton makes me wonder because he's not a good fielder and he's not a good hitter. He's been in pro ball for over ten years and still has not distinguished himself. The infatuation with Walton boggles my mind because he fails the scouting test and he does not grade out well statistically so I totally do not understand.
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