klaiggeb
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 7, 2022 9:28:19 GMT -5
Boly: As my father was wont to say when he was alive: "S_ _ _ or get off the pot!" Farhan, that means you! the offer to Judge is now up to $369 million and supposedly, they're in on Nimmo and Correa, too. Remember, I never wanted judge because I didn't think we could put good pieces around him. Nimmo and Correa ARE THE pieces I would like, and would go a long, long way to improving this club, especially with an addition of Hanniger. I really, REALLY see Nimmo as a huge piece because of the defense he provides in Center field, and the lead operator at the top of the lineup that all teams desperately need
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 7, 2022 9:32:45 GMT -5
Now that Judge is off the table, they've got to pivot quickly. I'm not too heartbroken about Judge going back to the Yankees because it would have been a massive overpay starting in 2027
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 7, 2022 10:21:57 GMT -5
Padres were also in in Judge but fortunately, he didn’t sign with them. The SD deal on the table was 10y/$400 million. His Yankee deal was $31 million less so one gets the feeling that the Giants were used as leverage to get more from the Yankees. Even with a lot to spend, a deal like the SD deal is pushing the upper limits. SD already has Machado, Soto, and Tatis on the books.
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klaiggeb
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 7, 2022 16:14:39 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more!
Again, I contend that FZ is dragging his feet!
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 8, 2022 9:43:19 GMT -5
“From a financial standpoint nobody is out of our capability” Zaidi said. “It’s about mutual interest and how we put together the best possible team.”
Local broadcasters said that if the hot stove ended right now, its a miserable failure. FZ needs to get on the phone with everyone and do it now and must not be timid about using the GIants' financial resources. If 2023 goes down the tubes as we expect, FZ will be shown the door.
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klaiggeb
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 8, 2022 10:54:48 GMT -5
“From a financial standpoint nobody is out of our capability” Zaidi said. “It’s about mutual interest and how we put together the best possible team.” Local broadcasters said that if the hot stove ended right now, its a miserable failure. FZ needs to get on the phone with everyone and do it now and must not be timid about using the GIants' financial resources. If 2023 goes down the tubes as we expect, FZ will be shown the door. Isn't that PRECISELY what I've been ranting about, Reed?
Glad you agree, and I'd have to believe all Giants fans would have to agree.
In this thread I posted 2 thing:
1-S_ _ _ or get off the pot!
2-FZ is dragging his feet.
Apparently he won't do the first, but continues to do the second.
Failure to this point? As Wesley Snipes said in the Movie, Passenger 57: "Damn Skippy!"
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 8, 2022 11:20:39 GMT -5
The SD contract to Bogearts was an overpay with 11 years and I think FZ misread the market (again). Its not enough to be the highest bidder but they might have to offer deals that will blow people away. From what I've been hearing about Judge was that his interest was sincere but I think his agent was using the Giants as leverage and it amounted to an $80 million "stupid tax" paid by the Yankees.
The players are milking it right now. Rodon is looking for a six year deal, Senga is getting five year offers. The 11 year offer to Bogearts set the bar for Correa so we have an idea of what it will take.
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klaiggeb
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 8, 2022 12:52:04 GMT -5
The SD contract to Bogearts was an overpay with 11 years and I think FZ misread the market (again). Its not enough to be the highest bidder but they might have to offer deals that will blow people away. From what I've been hearing about Judge was that his interest was sincere but I think his agent was using the Giants as leverage and it amounted to an $80 million "stupid tax" paid by the Yankees. The players are milking it right now. Rodon is looking for a six year deal, Senga is getting five year offers. The 11 year offer to Bogearts set the bar for Correa so we have an idea of what it will take. Why to I have this sinking (stinking) feeling that FZ is going to get us shut out... again!
As I've said before, my trust for this guy is at an all time low. and unless he makes 3 more dramatic moves, I'm done with him.
3 moves that need to be made:
1-CF/Lead off guy-Nimmo
2-SS-I want Dansby but I'd settle for Correa
3-SP And a bloody good one!
He fails to make these moves, and he's condemning this team to a 3rd or 4th place position for at least 2 or 3 years.
He fails to substantially upgrade this team? And I'm ownership? He's out the door!
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 9, 2022 1:40:16 GMT -5
Nimmo is off the table and going back to the Mets ($330 million payroll). Benintendi seems to be more FZ’s style for a cheaper, shorter term guy. I feel he didn’t want to match the 8 years the Mets gave Nimmo.
Looks like the pivot plan is a SS, starting pitcher, and a bunch of second tier guys, and maybe a giraffe 🦒. I think we are seeing someone clutching at straws. As per usual, the result will be a team of a bunch of guys with flaws and guys nobody else wants. FZ is still shopping in the Dollar Store. While two teams in the division are shopping and buying Coach.
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 9, 2022 11:30:08 GMT -5
Boly: Why to I have this sinking (stinking) feeling that FZ is going to get us shut out... again!
You get this feeling because this kind of behavior is what has defined the Zaidi tenure. It is what he does and continues to do. It is the same story year after year, to make enough aggressive bids to give the impression of trying hard, lose out, and then churn on the fringes the rest of the season. This is unacceptable and its happening too often to be considered bad luck.
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klaiggeb
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 9, 2022 12:08:07 GMT -5
So let's review:
1-His draft choices which seemed so good... have the appearance of fizzling
2-He goes through the motions of "acquiring" top talent... but always falls short
3-He continues to field a team of base cloggers. And though he SAYS he wants this team to be more athletic...He's done NOTHING to make it that way! And Hanniger? Average foot speed at best for what I could find. Strat-O-Matic rates him as 1-13. Best I've seen in Strat since I began playing in 1966, is 1-17. (That means out of a 20, he has 17 chances to be safe, more or less)
4-Our farm system, once highly ranked, well... isn't any more.
Looks to me for all the world like another 3rd or 4th place finish for YEARS to come.
Thanks for nothing, Farhan.
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 10, 2022 10:19:37 GMT -5
Padres were also in in Judge but fortunately, he didn’t sign with them. The SD deal on the table was 10y/$400 million. His Yankee deal was $31 million less so one gets the feeling that the Giants were used as leverage to get more from the Yankees. Even with a lot to spend, a deal like the SD deal is pushing the upper limits. SD already has Machado, Soto, and Tatis on the books. The San Diego deal might have been dis-allowed by the commissioner because it was for 14Y/$400 million and spreading it out over four more years amounted to being a way to circumvent the competitive balance tax. The average annual value would have dropped to under $30 million and the league wanted to make sure they were kept honest.
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 10, 2022 10:35:03 GMT -5
So let's review: 1-His draft choices which seemed so good... have the appearance of fizzling 2-He goes through the motions of "acquiring" top talent... but always falls short 3-He continues to field a team of base cloggers. And though he SAYS he wants this team to be more athletic...He's done NOTHING to make it that way! And Hanniger? Average foot speed at best for what I could find. Strat-O-Matic rates him as 1-13. Best I've seen in Strat since I began playing in 1966, is 1-17. (That means out of a 20, he has 17 chances to be safe, more or less) 4-Our farm system, once highly ranked, well... isn't any more. Looks to me for all the world like another 3rd or 4th place finish for YEARS to come. Thanks for nothing, Farhan. Most of the local broadcasters are aware that the free agent approach is not sustainable and have been roasting FZ about the lack of progress in the minor league system. A sustainable minor league organization would help a lot in attracting premium free agents. Even though they spent quite a bit to upgrade their facilities, I hear they still do not allocate as much of their resources to the minors as much as the Dodgers and Padres do. Also, too much attention was focused on refurbs like Mercedes and Brinson. I don't mind one or two of those but there were at least a half dozen. Furthermore, too many of our own prospects went down with injury (Luciano, Matos, Bishop, etc). I'm not sure how many of those were preventable but its not a good look for the organization. What shows me that they didn't realize how much the minor league system deteriorated was that FZ made those deals for Soto in July and he was surprised that they were turned down. It is clear that he does not understand that the NL West has passed them by from top to bottom.
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klaiggeb
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 10, 2022 11:34:54 GMT -5
So let's review: 1-His draft choices which seemed so good... have the appearance of fizzling 2-He goes through the motions of "acquiring" top talent... but always falls short 3-He continues to field a team of base cloggers. And though he SAYS he wants this team to be more athletic...He's done NOTHING to make it that way! And Hanniger? Average foot speed at best for what I could find. Strat-O-Matic rates him as 1-13. Best I've seen in Strat since I began playing in 1966, is 1-17. (That means out of a 20, he has 17 chances to be safe, more or less) 4-Our farm system, once highly ranked, well... isn't any more. Looks to me for all the world like another 3rd or 4th place finish for YEARS to come. Thanks for nothing, Farhan. Most of the local broadcasters are aware that the free agent approach is not sustainable and have been roasting FZ about the lack of progress in the minor league system. A sustainable minor league organization would help a lot in attracting premium free agents. Even though they spent quite a bit to upgrade their facilities, I hear they still do not allocate as much of their resources to the minors as much as the Dodgers and Padres do. Also, too much attention was focused on refurbs like Mercedes and Brinson. I don't mind one or two of those but there were at least a half dozen. Furthermore, too many of our own prospects went down with injury (Luciano, Matos, Bishop, etc). I'm not sure how many of those were preventable but its not a good look for the organization. What shows me that they didn't realize how much the minor league system deteriorated was that FZ made those deals for Soto in July and he was surprised that they were turned down. It is clear that he does not understand that the NL West has passed them by from top to bottom. That is a brilliant review, Reed! And I mean that sincerly!
The question is, do those about Farhan's head realize what he has done and continues to do?
Other than Posey...and that's a big maybe...I don't think they do.
As I posted earlier, if he can't do something SUBSTANTIAL and do it NOW, this off season, he needs to be shown the door.
5 years or so is enough time to get it done, and clearly, he has NOT
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 10, 2022 11:41:17 GMT -5
Local media is definitely not giving FZ a pass at this point. Everyone I talk to in family and at work is not happy with FZ and GK. Posey should know firsthand what is going on and needs to speak up. What speaks volumes is that FZ did not receive the extension.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 10, 2022 14:15:10 GMT -5
I did not know about the lack of an extension, but like you I see that as a good sign.
I just see the sands of the hour glass running out, and we're gonna be stuck on the short end of the stick again
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 10, 2022 16:06:08 GMT -5
What bothers me is that lay people seem to have more knowledge about the Giants' minor league system than FZ does. Boagie and Holiday for sure are knowledgeable and I get most of my data from whenthegiantscometotown since the guy who runs that blog seems to watch the system every day. I believe that FZ tried to trade off Luciano and Matos in a potential deal for Soto but I am not sure if he realized that they were injured (that is why Washington did not want them). He seemed surprised Washington would not even consider the offer and I think It was only then that he mentioned that the minor league system had problems. No way Washington would trade Soto for a bunch of injured guys.
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 10, 2022 16:18:44 GMT -5
I did not know about the lack of an extension, but like you I see that as a good sign. I just see the sands of the hour glass running out, and we're gonna be stuck on the short end of the stick again I would have thought they would have extended him after 2021 when Kapler got his extension (through 2024) and I thought it was odd that Kapler got it but Zaidi did not. At the time, it was thought it was a foregone conclusion that he would be extended but I get the feeling that Greg Johnson doesn't like him. Johnson always says things like "we are fully behind FZ, we will give him whatever money is needed to improve the club". I don't think Johnson would be be making statements like that and by content to watch FZ act like he's shopping at Toys For Tots.
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 12, 2022 10:29:16 GMT -5
Boly: 6-DON'T pursue Rodon. Too expensive. There are other very good options.
Free agency for pitchers is a lot riskier than for position players and they have to be approached differently. Rodon has had an injury history up until last year and now he and Boras are asking for a seven year deal. Seven year deals for anyone is risky and the risks increase for pitchers and especially for Rodon. He is a competitor but he is not a "horse" type like Matt Cain or Mad Bum. Also, I think he was the one holding meetings around the clubhouse trying to set the pitchers against the position players in the middle of the year (being forced to pitch for strikeouts instead of trusting the defense).
Another thing was last year we were making posts about getting Stroman or Ray and if the Giants had signed them, we would not be too happy that they did. Maybe we would look at the Senga deal like that. If they want to go short term, low risk, maybe they could look at Thor, Bassitt, or Stripling as starters and W Smith. We do not want the Giants to get hooked into any more Samardzdija type deals that really do not make sense.
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klaiggeb
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 12, 2022 20:15:54 GMT -5
And it should. All Giant fans should be beyond outraged about what has NOT happened, and what is likely NOT to happen.
We're stuck with a putz that I didn't want in the first place...was swayed for a while... but in the end he turned out to be exactly what I feared: An incompetent, saber-metric fool and a rhetorical mouth piece.
How nice for us.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 13, 2022 9:03:34 GMT -5
The usual schills for management such as Murph and Mac on KNBR and the writers on the Athletic have gone along with FZ in the past but I think their patience is at an end. The rock on which stats geeks have used to defend FZ is shrinking day to day.
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 13, 2022 9:56:53 GMT -5
And it should. All Giant fans should be beyond outraged about what has NOT happened, and what is likely NOT to happen. We're stuck with a putz that I didn't want in the first place...was swayed for a while... but in the end he turned out to be exactly what I feared: An incompetent, saber-metric fool and a rhetorical mouth piece. How nice for us. Actually, I wouldn't mind if he paid a little more attention to his sabremetrics because most of the guys on the churn are not only flawed players from a traditional scouting sense but they also do grade out poorly in the statistical sense. Sabremetrics looks at metrics like OBA, etc and a lot of guys FZ got on the churn fail the sabremetric test, also. FZ is the 21st century version of the Emporers' new clothes.
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 13, 2022 10:23:51 GMT -5
And it should. All Giant fans should be beyond outraged about what has NOT happened, and what is likely NOT to happen. We're stuck with a putz that I didn't want in the first place...was swayed for a while... but in the end he turned out to be exactly what I feared: An incompetent, saber-metric fool and a rhetorical mouth piece. How nice for us. I think it is worse than an incompetent sabremetric fool. He who knows not, and knows not he knows not, is a fool; shun him. He who knows not, and knows he knows not, is simple; teach him. He who knows, and knows not he knows, is asleep; awaken him. He who knows, and knows he knows, is wise; follow him. FZ is he who knows not, and knows not he knows not, but thinks he knows.
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klaiggeb
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 13, 2022 14:03:42 GMT -5
Wow! That is a GREAT presentation of FZ!
And I would argue also a GREAT presentation of ALL who live and die by sabermetrics!
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 28, 2022 16:50:38 GMT -5
Boly: 9-Move La Stella for ANYTHING
Today is addition by subtraction day! I didn't know that La Stella had injuries to both ankles. Wisely and Diaz are left handed so that made La Stella expendable. Maybe the Giants turned away from Correa after getting some first hand experience with La Stella and his ankles.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 29, 2022 9:30:13 GMT -5
Prior to coming to us, I was a big fan of his. The guy could hit!
Injuries just destroyed his career.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 29, 2022 10:30:30 GMT -5
FZ and Co. liked La Stella because he drew walks, outside of that he didn't bring much to the table.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 29, 2022 10:39:57 GMT -5
I am sure that's what they liked, but prior to him coming to us, what I liked was his ability to hit, and hit in the clutch.
It's gotten to A point with our leadership, that I no longer care what they care!
Other than that 1 fluke season, they Have shown little to no ability to take this team to the next step. And when you continually fish the bottom of The garbage can, what you get isn't worth keeping
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 29, 2022 11:26:03 GMT -5
I felt he was a poor man's version of David Eckstein or Craig Counsell when he was healthy. With injuries to both ankles, he pretty much cannot play in the field and they cannot hide him as a DH any longer if they want to use Joc more as a DH. He is sunk cost.
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reedonly
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Post by reedonly on Dec 29, 2022 11:37:53 GMT -5
The signing of Taylor Rogers was what caused the DFA of La Stella. The signing of Conforto will trigger another such move. Whenthegiantscometotown feels the DFA will be one of three pitchers: Marte, Long, or Szapucki. Of the three, Marte is the only RHP but he has the best track record.
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