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Post by holiday614 on Sept 19, 2022 19:21:14 GMT -5
I see we lost Scitt Harris to the Tigers.. Perhaps Zaidi can find a replacement on the waiver wire
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 19, 2022 22:12:24 GMT -5
What a great call, holiday!
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 20, 2022 1:14:26 GMT -5
Post of the year.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 20, 2022 10:16:37 GMT -5
I'm thinking the guy they will look at first will be Billy Owens from Oakland
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 20, 2022 22:42:18 GMT -5
Any particular reason will be looking at him?
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Post by reedonly on Sept 21, 2022 10:33:50 GMT -5
Billy is a top evaluator of talent and is a speed-athleticism guy. He used to be a player and helped the A's minor league system flourish. He knows his stats, too. He is smart. He was a finalist for the Mets job but Alderson wanted a power-launch angle guy. Giants need someone who can grow and maintain the farm system and not just mirror what Zaidi does (I felt Harris might have been too much of an extension of Zaidi). Owens said that he recognizes the game has gotten away from "lawyer ball" (meaning great stats and less emphasis on athleticism, which team does that remind you of?) and I feel he will be a better counterpoint to Zaidi. I've read where Zaidi and Harris would text each other at 3 in the morning about depth pieces and I think I would prefer someone who doesn't think exactly like Zaidi. There are four other candidates that were mentioned by the Mercury: Graves from Pittsburgh (bay area roots), Putila from Houston, and Minasian and Shelley (internal candidates). Graves, Owens, and Putila were involved in the original GM search. Shelley has served under Quinn, Sabean, Evans and Zaidi and his value is in doing a lot of the leg work for Zaidi such as contracts and probably best suited to stay where he is as kind of a Ned Coletti. Minasian and Putila were credited for a lot of the Brewers and Astros recent acquisitions. Graves has been an interim GM at Pittsburgh but he's the hardest one to gauge. My feeling is that the Giants will be best served by someone who is intelligent but will not be Zaidi's parrot. Scott Harris was said to be pretty smart and at his Tigers' press conference, he emphasized the acquisition and development of young players and emphasizing a culture of development at all levels. Also, he stressed the importance of the strike zone and how it affects all facets of the game. I'm not sure what to make of his time with the Giants because I didn't feel that he was outstanding at any facet and to be honest, my reaction to Harris leaving is mostly indifference. Most of the time, I heard excuses (pandemic, injuries, lockout) and good organizations make the best of things and don't rely on excuses. Also, acquiring and developing young talent does not mean going out to get Walton, Papierski, Fairchild, or Padlo. Harris said all the right things at his press conference but if these were things that are important to him in Detroit, why not in San Francisco? I think the Giants can do better and Harris might have done the Giants a favor by leaving. Of the five candidates listed by the Mercury, two candidates seem to be better than Harris, two are about the same, and I think the position is too much for one of them.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 21, 2022 11:54:21 GMT -5
Excellent update, Reed! Thanks!
But... why do I think they'll pick the worst one?
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Post by reedonly on Sept 21, 2022 15:50:23 GMT -5
Harris is a guy who worked under Epstein and Hoyer and his thought patterns seem too much like Farhan's. I fear an internal promotion for Minassian or Shelley would result in too much status quo and not enough thinking outside the box.
This is a quote form Farhan about Owens:
“I would work with Billy again in an absolute heartbeat, not just because of his experience and knowledge of the game, but because he’s a great guy to be around,” Zaidi said, adding, “There’s no doubt, for people who are in decision-making positions, having passionate views and opinions around is so important, especially in this day and age where you just have mounds and reams of information. Someone who can synthesize that and take a position, when you have no doubt where that guy stands on a player — that’s Billy Owens in a nutshell. You’ll always know how he feels, and the takes are as well researched and nuanced as anyone I’ve ever been around. That has immeasurable value in this day and age.”
I'm hearing that Owens is knowledgeable but may enjoy scouting more than a lot of the administrative duties (which is why he hasn't been promoted sooner).
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Post by reedonly on Sept 22, 2022 10:22:22 GMT -5
Excellent update, Reed! Thanks! But... why do I think they'll pick the worst one? Farhan liked working with Owens so I think Owens will get the first shot. I'm a little leery about all of them, to be honest because when the Angels and Mets were looking for GMs, most of these were GM candidates who were passed over by others. By the way, I think all of the candidates for the Giants job that Farhan interviewed still have not been hired as managers (Espada, Quatraro, and Grifol). I wonder if its because Farhan looks for the wrong kinds of guys or they are not all that good? I hear Espada is going to manage in the WBC so it might have been something to do with the Houston scandal.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 22, 2022 15:56:54 GMT -5
I'm thinking that whoever they choose as the new GM should also be ready to become president of baseball ops if need be. I don't see them firing Farhan just yet but I think if they continue down this road for 3 more years, he's got to go.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 23, 2022 8:57:07 GMT -5
Bingo!
He came here to build a winning team and he has the ship sailing down the river.
I said 5 years was a reasonable Mount of time.
Well... 5 years is next year.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 23, 2022 10:18:45 GMT -5
I think they feel the COVID year was a mulligan.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 23, 2022 13:09:37 GMT -5
I don't. There were trades that should have been made that weren't made moves that should have been made that weren't moved
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Post by reedonly on Sept 26, 2022 10:20:43 GMT -5
The whole thing that is supposed to drive the organization was the development of young talent and they felt they lost a year in 2020 because of COVID so that is why the upper management is going to give Farhan a one year pass on this. However, 29 other teams had the same problem but the Giants seem to be leaning on that excuse a little too hard. Even though COVID is happening, a good organization focuses a little more than just putting up cardboard fans in the stands.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 26, 2022 13:25:58 GMT -5
I agree, that's why I posted that I don't accept that as an excuse. Every other team had to deal with it, and most of them seemed to be doing just fine
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Post by reedonly on Sept 26, 2022 15:14:32 GMT -5
In 2020, a good management should have been able to pivot. I don't know how they handled their minor leagues in 2020 but I suspect from the way things looked in 2021 and 2022, they just shut it down. Everyone in the whole world has had to deal with Covid and most people who stayed in business had some sort of action plan. The biggest shutdown part of the pandemic was two years ago and I remember that with regards to the Giants, they were complaining about loss of income and they took it out on the concessionaires and players were not in shape when they came back. Players were largely not in shape after the lockout, also. If you want to know which teams were ready to go, all the Giants have to do is look at the standings, players on those teams were not watching Netflix all winter. Next year, the worst part of the pandemic and the lockout will be further and further into the past and players being out of shape and the crap ton of injuries like they've had the past few years is not going to be acceptable.
This thread started with Scott Harris and with Harris being GM during the pandemic and the lockout, I think he should shoulder some of the blame for the malaise of the organization. Unless he turns the Tigers around all of a sudden, its apparent that Harris was part of the problem.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 27, 2022 15:29:20 GMT -5
I think your logic is hard to argue with, and I totally agree!
I'm not saying heads should roll, but there has to be a price to pay for what they didn't do.. Someone has to be accountable
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Post by reedonly on Sept 28, 2022 10:20:41 GMT -5
If Harris did not get the job in Detroit, I would have considered firing him. I tend to be a little more cutthroat that the Board of Directors but I would expect my people to meet certain benchmarks and not use pandemic and lockout as excuses.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 28, 2022 10:44:26 GMT -5
Harris is a guy who worked under Epstein and Hoyer and his thought patterns seem too much like Farhan's. I fear an internal promotion for Minassian or Shelley would result in too much status quo and not enough thinking outside the box. This is a quote form Farhan about Owens: “I would work with Billy again in an absolute heartbeat, not just because of his experience and knowledge of the game, but because he’s a great guy to be around,” Zaidi said, adding, “There’s no doubt, for people who are in decision-making positions, having passionate views and opinions around is so important, especially in this day and age where you just have mounds and reams of information. Someone who can synthesize that and take a position, when you have no doubt where that guy stands on a player — that’s Billy Owens in a nutshell. You’ll always know how he feels, and the takes are as well researched and nuanced as anyone I’ve ever been around. That has immeasurable value in this day and age.” I'm hearing that Owens is knowledgeable but may enjoy scouting more than a lot of the administrative duties (which is why he hasn't been promoted sooner). One thing that might tip it to Billy Owens is that the Oakland ballpark situation is getting grossly out of whack. I think the city of Oakland is wildly underestimating how much money that they will be on the hook (we are talking hundreds of millions of dollars) for and are trying to rely on a lot of national and state subsidies to get this done. Even though there is a lot of talk about keeping the team in Oakland, realistically, I don't think the city can afford to keep them there and I don't think Owens will move if the team moves. The ballpark they are planning is nice but the surrounding city is a dump so I'm thinking it would end up being a lot like Turner Field in Atlanta.
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Post by reedonly on Oct 10, 2022 15:13:36 GMT -5
I see we lost Scitt Harris to the Tigers.. Perhaps Zaidi can find a replacement on the waiver wire They have already interviewed a number of candidates and they want the new GM in place by the time the winter meetings roll around in mid-November. If I recall correctly, it took FZ over a year last time so this time he's not messing around. He's going after a guy who emphasizes player development. Harris's duties might be spread among several people. They are looking for a fresh voice and said Buster Posey will also have input.
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Post by reedonly on Oct 11, 2022 10:28:09 GMT -5
FZ just hired Pete Putila. Earlier, I thought this would be one of the guys who would be better than Harris so I guess its a good hire. Supposedly he was not even interviewed by MLB as being a part of the sign stealing scandal. I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing because it might imply that he did not know what was happening under his watch. However, he takes credit for building the Astros' rotation and defense. Krukow feels this is a good hire because he is a bright young guy and he will concentrate on pitching and defense. He also passed one-on ones with Kapler, Minasian, Shelley, and Baer so he was a consensus choice. He shares Kapler's desire to have guys with athleticism, speed, and power.
Putila is supposedly very data driven so we probably will see the organization lean in that direction and Baggs said he was a part of the group that obtained Yordan Alvarez from the Dodgers when Zaidi was GM (possibly his worst trade ever).
Zaidi commented that Putila's strength is to "sift through the noise" which means to take all the various bits of data and opinions and focus on what is important. they are going to focus on what might have gone wrong with development of some of the minor leaguers (Matos and Ramos in particular but I'm less concerned about Matos now). Unfortunately, they will also be looking at players who they feel were undervalued so we will see a continuation of the churn.
One thing that shows that FZ is taking this seriously is that Houston is currently in the playoffs but is employed by the Giants effective immediately. He's not even waiting until after the Astros' season is over and this probably is indicative of how much he wanted him. He must be good because he beat out FZ's old buddy Billy Owens.
Putila seems to be saying the right things about player development, athleticism, etc but seems more credible than Scott Harris (who basically said the same things in Detroit press conference). The Astros seemed to be more successful in the areas of player developmet than the Giants were so I'm hoping there will be improvement in the most deficient areas.
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Post by reedonly on Oct 13, 2022 11:40:51 GMT -5
With all that churn it resulted in -1 war so churn is a waste
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 13, 2022 16:59:20 GMT -5
I see that, you see that, but does it B FFC that?
I'm betting he does not.
He has had some success, and since he has, I'm betting that he sees what hes doing as worth the chance.
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Post by reedonly on Oct 14, 2022 8:37:53 GMT -5
Heres the result of the churn broken down by whenthegiantscometotown;
Position Players:
Lewis Brinson OF: 39, 0.1 Yermin Mercedes UT: 83, -0.2 Donovan Walton IF:78, -0.7 Willie Calhoun OF: 9, -0.2 Austin Dean UT: 9, 0.1 Stuart Fairchild OF: 8, -0.2 Mike Ford UT: 4, 0 Andrew Knapp C: 7, 0 Dixon Machado SS: 17, 0 Kevin Padlo UT: 12, -0.3 Mike Papierski C: 10, -0.2 Kai Tom OF: 1, 0 Luke Williams OF: 12, 0.1 Ford Proctor C/IF: 22, 0.0 Austin Wynns C: 177, 0.4
Total PA's: 498. Total fWAR: -1.0
Pitchers:
Mauricio Llovera RHP: 26.1, 0.1 Alex Young LHP: 26.1, 0.4 Shelby Miller RHP: 7 IP, 0.4 Scott Alexander LHP: 17.1, 0.3 Jharel Cotton RHP: 8, 0.2 Luis Ortiz RHP: 8.2, 0.1 Andrew Vasquez LHP: 2, 0.1
Total IP: 94. Total fWAR: 1.6.
As expected, the worst ones were Walton and Padlo. What I don't understand is FZ's thought process. FZ has been seen as a poster child for sabermetrics but it seems he ignored the sabermetric data. Also, basic scouting reports on all players are available on the net and most of the players in the churn did not grade out very well. This begs the question: what were they looking at? They're not looking at sabermetrics, they're not looking at traditional scouting visuals. If this is the best FZ and Harris can do while texting each other in the middle of the night, its not very good.
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 15, 2022 10:34:07 GMT -5
What were they thinking... isn't that the question we've all been asking.
I submit again... they WEREN'T thinking
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Post by Islandboagie on Oct 15, 2022 22:13:34 GMT -5
I think it's trying too hard, almost appearing as desperation. But we weren't in a desperate position. Heliot Ramos only had 20 ABs and he was our best prospect. Why would we lean on so many scrap heap players and stiff our best prospect in the upper levels of the minors of playing time?
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Post by reedonly on Oct 16, 2022 8:34:55 GMT -5
I think they might have been focusing on one good aspect of flawed players such as hits lefthanded pitching or good exit velocity and then at the same time ignore the big picture.
Brinson, Mercedes, and Calhoun were once top prospects and I think they thought they could fix them. I understand why they went after those three but they ended up with the same problems. Most of the rest are fringe mlb players at best. Why not give a chance to players already in the system?
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 16, 2022 9:29:57 GMT -5
I have no problem with taking a flyer on former top picks. They at least deserved a look and had a shot at being fixed...
But like ya'all it's the other, less thanarginal players we went and got that disturbed me
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Post by reedonly on Oct 16, 2022 11:12:19 GMT -5
Out of the rest of the bunch of those guys, only Wynns and Machado might have a chance to stick next season but only as backups. The rest of the churned position players will probably be released to clear up space on the 40 man roster.
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Post by reedonly on Oct 18, 2022 9:12:40 GMT -5
Mercedes was just released and this seems consistent with the stated goals of getting more athletic and improving the defense.
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