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Post by holiday613 on Aug 27, 2019 17:22:41 GMT -5
Good riddance Scooter...He showed me nothing on the field anc certainly not much at the plate...He struck out nearly 30% of the time...Might be a nice guy but we need new faces and Dubon who is coming off a strong start at Sacramento offers us that...Since Dubon is a lefty hitting 2nd baseman it made Gennet expendable...I wish Scooter well but time is of the essence and im glad realized his mistake and cut his losses....I predict we will win 8 out of our next 10 games and put us back in the race...You can thank me later...
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 27, 2019 17:32:08 GMT -5
Dude even if that happens, it's too late. We would need every other contending team to fall on their collective asses. Plus our pitching can't get it done. This is why trading Bum and Smith was the right way to go
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 27, 2019 17:47:21 GMT -5
As for Scooter, I never thought much of him.
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Post by holiday613 on Aug 27, 2019 17:54:18 GMT -5
No doubt...Again, we really dont know what was offered for Bum/smith....I was on record for them getting traded too...My pointagain, is that I feel ZF shouold be given the benefit of the doubt considering his other trades....we have 31 games left...lets go21-10 and see if we can squeak into the final spot!!
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 27, 2019 19:46:41 GMT -5
Once again, my friend...something beats nothing every single time
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Post by holiday613 on Aug 27, 2019 20:00:37 GMT -5
Given that there was an outside shot to win the WC at the trading deadline, Id have to say that the "SOMETHING" had to be something worth the risk....I just dont think the return was there,which is something that we will unfortunately ever know
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 28, 2019 0:40:52 GMT -5
It boils down to whether management truly believed the chances of beating out all the better teams and make the playoffs were realistic. To me it was obviously not going to happen.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 28, 2019 6:37:05 GMT -5
Scooter Gennett hit 27 and 23 homeruns the last two years with batting averages of .295 and .310. This was in the major leagues, not the PCL, Texas league or Sally league, if it even exists anymore. For him to trot out over the hill players day after day, year after year, and then to give up on Scooter after 65 at bats is ludicrous. He’s just 29. If the team was throwing in the towel and concentrating on next year I would be completely on board, but to come out and say Solano (who’s OLDER than Scooter by two years!!!) and Dubon give them a better chance to win now is pure stupidity. That being said, I’m looking forward to seeing Dubon in the lineup every day. Don’t bring him up here to rot behind the 31 year old fluky Solano. Let Solano play short against lefties.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 28, 2019 12:47:53 GMT -5
Scooter Gennett hit 27 and 23 homeruns the last two years with batting averages of .295 and .310. This was in the major leagues, not the PCL, Texas league or Sally league, if it even exists anymore. For him to trot out over the hill players day after day, year after year, and then to give up on Scooter after 65 at bats is ludicrous. He’s just 29. If the team was throwing in the towel and concentrating on next year I would be completely on board, but to come out and say Solano (who’s OLDER than Scooter by two years!!!) and Dubon give them a better chance to win now is pure stupidity. That being said, I’m looking forward to seeing Dubon in the lineup every day. Don’t bring him up here to rot behind the 31 year old fluky Solano. Let Solano play short against lefties.
Mark, you echoed every thought that went through my head.
It's perplexing; confusing, even.
As I said in a different thread, that tells ME that Farhan has given up on the season.
IF he truly decided we could make a run, he needed to stick with that strategy.
Now it appears as though he's changing his mind in mid stream, as the saying goes.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 29, 2019 7:20:43 GMT -5
Well if Farhan now feels they’re out of it, I agree with that sentiment so I’m ok with Scooter being gone and Dubon playing every day from now on. It’s nof just the number of games back, it’s the amount of teams they’d have to pass to get that second wildcard. My point was that if Bochy had handled Scooter better we might not be at this point. His power might have made the difference in a couple of close games. And Bochy’s statement that Solano and Dubon give them a better chance of winning right now is ludicrous. Don’t really blame him for saying it though, they’re still trying to sell tickets, but it’s kind of insulting our intelligence. And I’m looking forward to seeing Dubon but let’s not forget the Brewers gave him up for very little and he’s 25 and was stuck in their minors. Let’s not pretend we got the next....Scooter Gennett!
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 29, 2019 10:16:21 GMT -5
Well if Farhan now feels they’re out of it, I agree with that sentiment so I’m ok with Scooter being gone and Dubon playing every day from now on. It’s nof just the number of games back, it’s the amount of teams they’d have to pass to get that second wildcard. My point was that if Bochy had handled Scooter better we might not be at this point. His power might have made the difference in a couple of close games. And Bochy’s statement that Solano and Dubon give them a better chance of winning right now is ludicrous. Don’t really blame him for saying it though, they’re still trying to sell tickets, but it’s kind of insulting our intelligence. And I’m looking forward to seeing Dubon but let’s not forget the Brewers gave him up for very little and he’s 25 and was stuck in their minors. Let’s not pretend we got the next....Scooter Gennett!
I'm looking very forward to seeing Dubon play, so I can 'see for myself' what he's like.
But that said, remember, Alex Pavlovic said that the Brewer's farm system was not very good, and implied that Dubon was way over rated.
That gave and still gives me, reason for pause.
Then again, if Farhan has the eye for talent everyone believes he has, maybe he saw/sees something no one else sees.
After all, he WAS the center piece of that deal.
All I know for sure is this:
Panik had been terrible for the last 3 years.
Crawford looks old, slow and over weight.
We haven't had a solid 2Bman since our 2014 season
Gennet wasn't and won't be "the" guy.
The front office seems to have soured on Avelino.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 29, 2019 12:58:04 GMT -5
If Fardork now thinks we are done, he basically admits that he fucked up in keeping Bum and Smith.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 29, 2019 15:50:07 GMT -5
Randy, can we please not use the "F" word on the board?
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 30, 2019 0:23:53 GMT -5
I respect you boly but were all adults here. None of us deserve to be told what language can and cannot be used. I know you would not take kindly to any of us telling you what words you cannot use
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 30, 2019 7:14:51 GMT -5
Have to disagree with you here, Randy. Giants have tickets to sell and they were playing great at the deadline, you can’t just start tanking at that point. You owe it to your fans and your retiring HOF manager to give it a shot, as long as you don’t trade any top prospects to do so. And again, Smith and Bum were rentals and you don’t know what they would have gotten for them. Teams don’t trade top prospects for rentals. Marcus Stroman, who actually has a year left of control was traded for two doubtful prospects, so what was Bum worth?
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 30, 2019 9:40:42 GMT -5
We are adults, Randy, but I object to that word being used anywhere in a public context.
Don't like it in movies, on the street, anywhere, and especially not on the board.
So I respectfully ask you again; please, don't use it on the board.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 30, 2019 12:04:46 GMT -5
Ill do my best Boly but i make no promises. When i talk baseball i sometimes revert to my clubhouse lingo. Its just my character, particularly when my gears get to grinding.
One question to you Mark...how's that decision to keep Bum and Smith working out so far? Another question...isn't something better than nothing?
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 30, 2019 15:49:04 GMT -5
Understand. I had the same problem for a long, long...long time.
Teaching in the classroom helped me break that habit.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 31, 2019 7:06:19 GMT -5
I don’t know, Randy, but I kinda enjoyed watching Bum beat the Padres last night, striking out nine in seven dominant innings. Why should we just hand over the greatest World Series pitcher of all time if they’re going to insult us with the offer? And we need him back next year, you’ve seen what we have at Sacramento, so keeping him creates good feeling and gives up a leg up on re-signing him. Same with Smith. The only thing that could change my mind is if I had access to the deals Zaidi was offered and actually saw what he turned down. But I’m guessing he wasn’t offered anything worth jumping on.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 31, 2019 10:08:54 GMT -5
I don’t know, Randy, but I kinda enjoyed watching Bum beat the Padres last night, striking out nine in seven dominant innings. Why should we just hand over the greatest World Series pitcher of all time if they’re going to insult us with the offer? And we need him back next year, you’ve seen what we have at Sacramento, so keeping him creates good feeling and gives up a leg up on re-signing him. Same with Smith. The only thing that could change my mind is if I had access to the deals Zaidi was offered and actually saw what he turned down. But I’m guessing he wasn’t offered anything worth jumping on.
Well said, Mark. I agree on all points.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 31, 2019 12:36:20 GMT -5
So July was fun but let's be honest, the rest of the season has been a bust, unless you enjoy seeing losing baseball. After the deadline, the team is under 500. I can't see that it would have been much worse had we traded Bum and Smith. Recently we got swept in Chicago and swept at home by the Dbacks. Pretty ugly. It doesn't seem keeping Bum and Smith has done much good for us. I would rather have the prospects
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 1, 2019 10:01:03 GMT -5
We're ending the season the way we began the season, that's for sure.
Stinking up the planet
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 2, 2019 12:36:24 GMT -5
Randy- So July was fun but let's be honest, the rest of the season has been a bust, unless you enjoy seeing losing baseball
Boagie- They're still better, younger and more exciting to watch than they were this time last season, and the season and a half prior to that. You can continue your "negative nancy" routine, but Zaidi has made good moves in making this team a better one for the future.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 2, 2019 14:12:45 GMT -5
Randy- So July was fun but let's be honest, the rest of the season has been a bust, unless you enjoy seeing losing baseball Boagie- They're still better, younger and more exciting to watch than they were this time last season, and the season and a half prior to that. You can continue your "negative nancy" routine, but Zaidi has made good moves in making this team a better one for the future.
Randy, boagie's right.
I know neither you nor I got what we wanted before the season began, but Farhan HAS done a good job.
No, a very good job with the limited resources he had to work with.
He could not foresee a total implosion by Crawford, Belt, Panik and Posey.
None of us did.
He had no reason to believe that Rodriguez would be as bad as he's been, nor could he have predicted Watson's, Smith's and Moronta's sub par 2nd half.
We're younger, our farm system is much, much better, and we actually now have a future.
Maybe not next year, but in 2021 for sure when Bart and Heliot join the team.
We've got some pitching coming, too.
So seriously, my friend, and I means seriously... as dad told his son in; Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. "Let it go, Indiana/Randy. Let it go."
Please, I urge you, stop looking with your heart and look with your head.
Yeah, Farhan's a stats geek. We can't change that. We stuck with him.
But at least look at the body of work and acknowledge he's done a darned good job.
could it have been better?
Of course
Would you and I have done things differently?
Absolutely!
But what he did has been solid.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 2, 2019 15:14:12 GMT -5
Want to know why I'm negative? We could have got something for Panik last offseason, we got nothing. Maybe not much but something is better than nothing. He held on to Belt and he too degraded in value. Held on to Bum and Smith and we'll get nothing for them too. Anybody can get lucky once in a while diving the scrap heap. I'm not sold on these 30-ish guys we got. ill give you that our farm system is improved but it could have been even more deep with a full committment to rebuilding. And the arms on the farm are just ok...nothing exciting.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 2, 2019 16:05:52 GMT -5
I'm not talking AAA farm, I'm talking lower. Hjelle, for one, and Webb, who's now with us.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 2, 2019 16:10:08 GMT -5
Want to know why I'm negative? We could have got something for Panik last offseason, we got nothing. Maybe not much but something is better than nothing. He held on to Belt and he too degraded in value. Held on to Bum and Smith and we'll get nothing for them too. Anybody can get lucky once in a while diving the scrap heap. I'm not sold on these 30-ish guys we got. ill give you that our farm system is improved but it could have been even more deep with a full committment to rebuilding. And the arms on the farm are just ok...nothing exciting.
I don't disagree, Randy, but I think Farhan was in a lose-lose situation. No matter which we he went... he loses.
He needed to see for himself, what he had before he made whole sale changes.
And it wasn't much, as we've seen from Panik, Belt, Posey and Crawford.
If it was Sabean still running the show, we, you and I, might have gotten what we wanted; a house cleaning.
But with a new guy? Any new guy... and it wasn't likely.
I'd like you to reserve further judgement on him until this off season.
let's see what he does.
Belt and Crawford, and yes, Posey, need to be gone.
Not going to happen with Posey, but with the other two? Maybe.
I think he'll make a Fa signing or two that are worthwhile, and I think he'll make a big play for Gerrit Cole.
Will he get him? right now, I'd say no, but who knows.
If he stays in Houston, he's on a contender.
If he comes to SF he'd be in a great pitcher's park.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Sept 2, 2019 16:21:20 GMT -5
Having come from the Dodgers and before that Oakland he already knew what we had here...at least that was the selling point when he first got here.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 2, 2019 16:47:08 GMT -5
All true, likely, but still, he had to see for himself.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 3, 2019 8:13:05 GMT -5
Randy, I think you’re a knowledgeable baseball fan, but.....(you knew there was a but coming, right?) you’re not a fly on the wall. And once you recognize that fact, you might not hate Zaidi that much. A lot of your criticisms of him have to do with what he could have done, and there’s just no way of knowing, which is why it’s unfair criticism. You knocked what he did at the deadline, which everyone else liked, because he could have gotten a lot for Bumgarner and Smith. And here you criticize him because you think there was a market for Joe Panik. Do you know how many better second baseman there were out there this offseason? Schoop, Dozier, Dietrich, Cabrera, Lemahieu, Marwin Gonzalez, Tim Beckham etc. And that’s a quick list, I can do some more if you want. Why would someone trade something for Panik when most of these guys signed cheaply? If you want to criticize Zaidi for Panik, it should be that he tendered him in the first place instead of signing one of these guys. So once again, I think it’s poor criticism to continue to knock Zaidi as if you were a fly on the wall or had his phone tapped and know what deals he was turning down to keep these players.
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