I read it, Rog, but that doesn't change my perspective.
1-That team had bangers.
2-A team with bangers can get away with that.
I fear you didn't read it carefully, since in 1960 and 1961 -- the two consecutuve seasons I could find where Harmon batted third the most -- they had even fewer bangers than the present Giants. Please take a moment to re-read what I copied here:
Roger likes to bring up Killebrew hitting third.
But he fails to mention that those old Twins teams had a number of BANGERS, Alison, Hall, Battey just to name a few, who could all hit 20+ HRs.
Rog -- Perhaps a little comparison here would make sense. Let's look at comparative homers by the two teams. You mentioned Allison, Hall and Battey specificially, adding there may have been other power hitters as well.
Let's look at the last two years for the Giants' present power hitters and 1960 and 1961 for the Senators/Twins. I picked 1960 and 1961 because they were the most plate appearances for Harmon in the #3 position in the order of any two back-to-back years I could find. Harmon batted #3 an even 800 times in those two seasons combined.
The past two seasons Buster has hit 26 homers. Evan Longoria has hit 56. Andrew McCutchen, 52. Brandon Belt, 35. In 1960 and 1961 Harmon hit 77, Bob Lemon hit 52, Allison 44 and Battey 32. No other Senator/Twin reached double figures in homers either of the other two seasons.
Buster has averaged 13 homers the past two seasons. Evan, Andrew and Brandon have averaged 72. In 1960 and 1961 Harmon averaged 38 homers. Lemon, Allison and Battey averaged 64. You don't think it makes as much sense to hit Buster's 13 homers ahead of Longoria's, McCutchen's and Belt's 72 than it did to bat Harmon's 38 homers in front of Lemon's, Allison's and Battey's 64?
Of course it would.
The past two seasons the power hitters of this year's team who might follow Buster hit many more homers than did those who hit behind Harmon in the two back-to-back seasons I could find in which he batted third the most.
There are other seasons in which there were indeed more bangers behind Harmon, and I'm sure he batted third at least sometimes, but in the two back-to-back seasons in which he batted third the most, the Senators/Twins had even less power behind him than the present Giants should have this season (based in both cases on the two previous seasons).
So the two back-to-back seasons IN WHICH HARMON BATTED THIRD THE MOST the situation you mentioned didn't apply. Yet Harmon batted third in those two seasons more than in any other two consecutive seasons I could find in his career. With less power behind him than the Giants presently possess.
Your perspective seems to be that being slow should disqualify a batter from hitting third and that anyone who thinks otherwise couldn't have played or coached baseball above the high school level. We have mentioned many situations here where major league managers batted slow players third, and I'm guessing they played or coached above the high school level. In fact, I think they played and coached at the very level we're talking about -- the major leagues.
That is why I think if you read everything, you would find it virtually impossible NOT to change your perspective. Surely after reading or re-reading the above you realize your perspective goes against managers such as Cookie Lavagetto, Sam Mele and Bruce Bochy. (Remember, Buster has ALREADY batted third over 1000 times.)
Remember, we agree that Andrew McCutchen should bat third. That isn't the issue. The issue is that you have not only stated that anyone with experience above the high school wouldn't consider batting a slow runner third in the lineup, but IIRC you stated that anyone considering doing so would be from another planet.
We agree that Buster shouldn't bat third with the present Giants, but I feel strongly that he shouldn't be disqualified from that solely because he is a slow runner such as Joey Votto and Miguel Cabrera are and Harmon Killebrew and Willie McCovey were.
I don't see how I could have made a stronger case. The very facts from other major league situations say that you should agree.
That's all.
Read more:
sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4318/who-bat-lead-off?page=2#ixzz58boroLss