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Post by klaiggeb on May 26, 2014 22:25:41 GMT -5
Haven't seen him pitch in quite a while, but his stuff flat out impressed the crap outta me!
I sure wish we could make some kind of move to get him, but NOT if he wouldn't sign a deal with us first.
boly
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Post by Rog on May 27, 2014 2:22:05 GMT -5
The Giants will likely have a shot at him this winter. But I would be surprised if it happened.
. The Giants will likely re-sign Ryan Vogelsong, so they'll presumably have all five starters under contract for at least another season.
. The Giants may need a significant amount of money to re-sign Pablo and Morse, plus lock up Belt. They may choose to lock up Crawford, as well.
. I too have spoken about not trading for a player unless he is signed first, but how often does that happen?
. Samardzija is impressive enough that he'll bring a fair trade haul even without being re-signed.
. The Giants may be re-evaluating their starting pitching of the future though, since almost every one of their top starting pitching prospects has declined this season.
. The Giants' bullpen has been so good this season and they have Hembree and Law just a step or two away, so they may use the strategy of having just GOOD starting pitching and putting the icing on the cake with an even stronger bullpen.
. The Giants may be far more interested in starting pitching in two years, when the contracts to both Tim's expire, than they will be this season or this following winter.
. Whichever team has Samardzija at season's end will almost certainly make a qualifying offer, meaning the team that signs him will lose its first-round pick, something the Giants don't want to do.
. The Giants quite possibly will want to strengthen the keystone at the deadline. Their trade resources might go there.
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Post by rxmeister on May 27, 2014 7:56:20 GMT -5
You spelled it wrong, and so will I, so I'm going with Jeff S. like he's an alcoholic or something! I can see them making a move for him at the deadline, but not after the season. Four starters are signed already, and Vogelsong will make five if he continues to pitch like this, although I think you'd really he pushing it bringing him back for another season. If they wind up looking for another starter this offseason though, Sabean's style is more look for a free agent than making a major deal.
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 8:13:47 GMT -5
If Vogey continues to pitch like he has, it would be hard not to sign him. Especially if the price remains reasonable. After all, we paid big for two more years of mediocrity from Timmy.
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Post by klaiggeb on May 27, 2014 9:20:35 GMT -5
boly says---I'm with you, Mark; Sabean is more likely to make a deal at the deadline this year, rather than in the off season, for Jeffy S.
I also agree with Allen; If Vogey continues to pitch as he has been, it will be hard not to resign him.
We really don't need to make any position player acquisitions at the trade deadline.
I have been and will continue to lobby for a starter to replace Tim, and move him to the pen.
Failing that, a bullpen guy to replace whomever (Huff) goes into the toilet.
And speaking of the pen; so much for the "best bullpen in baseball."
I've been holding my breath with them all year, and recently, we've seen signs of why.
boly
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 11:30:14 GMT -5
Not getting you on the pen, boly. Huff had a bad one yesterday, but who else? Lopez? I think he's being used differently more than anything. Facing more righties and more hitters. Machi? Great. Gutierrez? Great. Casilla? Great until he got hurt. Affeldt? Great. Romo? Aside from a couple of hiccups, great. Even Petit has been great out of the pen
I think you got spoiled with these guys being all but perfect, and now that they're merely great, you're seeing problems.
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 11:40:04 GMT -5
Who are you going to give the Cubs at the deadline to get Samardzija? We don't have much minor league talent. If we give some ML talent, who dowe have that the Cubs can use. I'd say Pablo, but then they have to sign him. Is trading Posey unthinkable?
I also think the Cubs are wanting to cut salary. On the other hand, Jason Hammel is also said to be available.
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Post by islandboagie on May 27, 2014 14:06:21 GMT -5
Allen- Who are you going to give the Cubs at the deadline to get Samardzija? We don't have much minor league talent. If we give some ML talent, who dowe have that the Cubs can use. I'd say Pablo, but then they have to sign him. Is trading Posey unthinkable?
Boagie- Trading our starting All-Star caliber catcher for a 6th starter..unthinkable is a nice way of putting it.
Same goes for Pablo. I don't see the point of creating a hole while trying to plug a hole in our starting rotation that doesn't exist.
Timmy hasn't been perfect, but he does have a winning record. I don't see that as a hole we need to fill.
I don't really see any hole we need to fill, perhaps that's why we're 4.5 games ahead of the team many of you said was going to run away with the division.
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 14:30:15 GMT -5
Sorry boag, but Timmy is a hole. If you can dump him, do it. Cain is becoming less durable as well. Samardzija would be a two for us.Maybe a co-one.
Buster hasn't been himself since before last year's All Star break. What has he hit since then?
Pablo? He's been hot lately, which is great. But how much will it cost to sign him? You can't keep everyone. Just another charming feature of free agency.
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 14:32:11 GMT -5
I never said the Dodgers would run away with anything. In fact, I said they were overrated.
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Post by klaiggeb on May 27, 2014 14:54:40 GMT -5
Allen---Who are you going to give the Cubs at the deadline to get Samardzija?
--boly says---
Allen. When I originally answered your question, I said I'd give them Lincecum and Crick and/or Susac.
That's an awfully good package.
But I have one caveat; I only trade for Jeffy IF and ONLY IF we can sign him long term.
boly
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 15:31:46 GMT -5
Not enough boly. Lincecum is nowhere near as good as Samardzija, makes more money, and doesn't have Jeff's future. Crick is having a bad year, and Susac's been hurt. Neither has shown any consistent signs of being anything special in the big leagues.
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Post by islandboagie on May 27, 2014 17:19:32 GMT -5
Allen, I thought you were the guy claiming run support doesn't matter. A win is a win? I must be thinking of someone else because that person is a complete contradiction of your recent comments on the Lincecum vs. Samardzija topic.
Samardzija has never even won in the double digits. Timmy has never not won in the double digits.
Maybe we could find this guy who claims wins are important and run support doesn't matter and we could set him straight.
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 18:29:56 GMT -5
When did I say run support doesn't matter? Of course it matters. I have said that it isn't the only factor, as others here have tried to put forth.
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 18:36:29 GMT -5
Ok boag. Are you seriously saying you'd rather have the rapidly fading and incredibly overpaid Lincecum than the up and coming Samardzija? Seriously? I know if it were up to you we'd still have the 2010 team intact, but seriously?
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Post by klaiggeb on May 27, 2014 19:07:37 GMT -5
Allen---Not getting you on the pen, boly. Huff had a bad one yesterday, but who else? Lopez? I think he's being used differently more than anything. Facing more righties and more hitters. Machi? Great. Gutierrez? Great. Casilla? Great until he got hurt. Affeldt? Great. Romo? Aside from a couple of hiccups, great. Even Petit has been great out of the pen
I think you got spoiled with these guys being all but perfect, and now that they're merely great, you're seeing problems.
===boly says===
Allen, you totally missed my point. Here's my quote: "And speaking of the pen; so much for the "best bullpen in baseball."
I've been holding my breath with them all year, and recently, we've seen signs of why."
I'm not saying some of our guys have done, or are doing well.
My comment totally addressed the media and everyone else saying we had "The Best Bullpen in baseball."
I first heard the rumblings weeks ago when we were the 2nd or 3rd best, and I said, "no way! We ain't 1, 2, 3 or even 4! Yeah, we've got some solid guys but I think we have holes all over the place!"
1-I posted over a week ago, my concerns about Romo. The other day. 2 solid snapping sliders... then some rollers and WHACK! HR.
2-I posted my injury concerns about Lopez... used differently or not. Well, we found out what the problem is; he has a cranky arm.
Cranky arm? Why? It's not like he was over used.
3-I've long NOT been as high on Affeldt as everyone else has been, and I've posted that point many times over the years. He's prone to some really solid outtings, followed by above average outtings, and a lot of them.
4-My concern about Casilla I also posted prior to his injury; his command is all over the place. Or at least it was.
Who does that leave?
Petit? Huff? Machi? Gutierrez? Kontos?
Of the 3 I have no confidence in anyone but Machi, who just continues to get better.
Gutierrez is just okay. Great stuff, above average reliever.
The only guy I REALLY love in our pen, and I posted so a year ago and everyone took shots at me, is Machi.
I said last year he had closer stuff.
But back to my point.
Do we have a bad bullpen?
Heck no! I never said we did. I din't imply that we did.
Is it top tier? as in 1-2 or 3?
I say, no. No how, no way I don't CARE what the numbers currently are. And the last time I looked, their collective ERA was climbing and fast!
2 1/2 bad to mediocre outtings by Romo
2 back to back poor outtings by Huff.
Lopez isn't turning any heads lately either.
Thus my comment was ONLY directed towards those claiming we were the best in baseball.
period.
boly
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 19:14:37 GMT -5
Who's pen is better, top to bottom?
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Post by allenreed on May 27, 2014 19:17:25 GMT -5
Reread your assessment of Affeldt. That sounds like a guy I want in my pen.
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Post by Rog on May 27, 2014 21:39:09 GMT -5
Allen -- Lopez? I think he's being used differently more than anything. Facing more righties and more hitters. Rog -- You may have missed it, Allen, but Lopez hasn't really been facing more right-handed hitters than usual. And if he's faced more batters, it hasn't been by much and might be due mostly to his walking more. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2285/samardiza-heck-spell#ixzz32yRNpAzG |
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Post by islandboagie on May 28, 2014 1:38:34 GMT -5
Actually compared to recent seasons Lopez has been facing a far higher percentage of righties this season.
This season- 22 LH, 20 RH
2013- 98 LH, 63 RH
2012- 97 LH, 56 RH
But unlike other seasons, I believe the biggest difference is Bochy is letting Lopez continue the inning against right handers if he allows someone to reach base. As I recall, in previous seasons, if he didn't retire the lefty he was in there for, he'd be out of the game. But it is early, Bochy always tends to shorten the rope during the second half.
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Post by rxmeister on May 28, 2014 7:04:19 GMT -5
Crick is a potential number one starter, so I think his upside warrants the Cubs looking really hard at taking him for Jeff S. Pablo is useless to a non contender in his walk year, and trading Posey is unthinkable. The Giants would have to be willing to sign Jeff long term before making this deal though.
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Post by allenreed on May 28, 2014 7:32:25 GMT -5
No one said the Cubs can't sign Pablo, just as the Giants could sign Samardzija.
If it improves the team, trading anyone is thinkable. Again, it's too expensive to keep everyone.
I just brought this subject up to provide some grist for the mill. Actually, I'm kind of inclined to agree with boagie. We have a good thing going here, why mess with it? It might be a tad early to say this, but I think this team is potentially better than either of the championship clubs. Deeper, better pen, more power. If we can get Posey straightened out, and Vogey keeps going, we're going to be tough.
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Post by islandboagie on May 28, 2014 9:45:46 GMT -5
Boly- Is it top tier? as in 1-2 or 3?
I say, no. No how, no way I don't CARE what the numbers currently are. And the last time I looked, their collective ERA was climbing and fast!
2 1/2 bad to mediocre outtings by Romo
2 back to back poor outtings by Huff.
Lopez isn't turning any heads lately either.
Thus my comment was ONLY directed towards those claiming we were the best in baseball.
period.
Boagie- I dont know if we're the best this season, but we're certainly one of the best. I think the comment "we're the best" is closer to reality than saying we're nowhere near the best.
Over the past number of years I think you could make the argument that our core (Affeldt, Casilla, Lopez and Romo) could be among the best ever. Anyone else know a more solid crew (at least 4 pitchers) during a 3+ year period? (Not to mention the two post seasons.)
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Post by allenreed on May 28, 2014 10:42:13 GMT -5
Our pen currently has four pitchers (not counting Kontos) with ERAs under 2.00. Our closer is on pace to go 9-3 with 49 saves. We have a pitcher with an ERA of 0.31. Once we get to the pen, teams very rarely come back on us.
I'll ask again. Top to bottom, who has a better pen than ours?
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Post by islandboagie on May 28, 2014 14:07:48 GMT -5
Definitively I dont think you can say anyone is better. But you could make an argument for San Diego... perhaps a few others.
One thing the Giants have is a core that has been consistent throughout the past 3+ years and they've also been effective in the post season. In my opinion this gives them a fairly substantial edge over the rest of the teams. When talking about "the best" considering the track record is important as well, because the team or player with the good track record is battle tested and less likely to fall off.
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Post by Rog on May 28, 2014 22:51:34 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on May 28, 2014 22:59:44 GMT -5
Boagie -- Actually compared to recent seasons Lopez has been facing a far higher percentage of righties this season. This season- 22 LH, 20 RH 2013- 98 LH, 63 RH 2012- 97 LH, 56 RH But unlike other seasons, I believe the biggest difference is Bochy is letting Lopez continue the inning against right handers if he allows someone to reach base. As I recall, in previous seasons, if he didn't retire the lefty he was in there for, he'd be out of the game. But it is early, Bochy always tends to shorten the rope during the second half. Rog -- You make a good point here, Boagie. Javier has indeed faced a very high proportion of lefty hitters the past two full seasons, which may have contributed to his large success as a Giant. The percentage of right-handed hitters he's faced this season are close to the percentage he's faced over the course of his career. It would appear that part of Javier's success as a Giants has indeed been their using him less against righty hitters. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2285/samardiza-heck-spell?page=1#scrollTo=20340#ixzz334bVJp2z |
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Post by Rog on May 28, 2014 23:02:18 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on May 28, 2014 23:03:35 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on May 28, 2014 23:54:12 GMT -5
I'll disagree. They have a better ERA. We have a better W/L percentage, far fewer losses, more holds, more saves. I think we're deeper and our guys have better career track records.
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