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Cano
Dec 6, 2013 11:35:35 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 6, 2013 11:35:35 GMT -5
Well, supposedly, it's done. Ten years/$240 million.The M's will be paying Cano $24 million when he's 41. I think both Cano and the M's will come to regret this deal.
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Cano
Dec 6, 2013 11:42:45 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 6, 2013 11:42:45 GMT -5
In other Yankee news, they've re-signed Huroki Kuroda for one year at $16 million. Supposedly, with Cano gone, the Yanks will now turn their attention to Choo, though I think Beltran would be a better fit for them.
Francisco Peguero signed a major league contract with the Orioles, which is a bit of a surprise, since he has never really been a major league player
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Cano
Dec 6, 2013 14:17:02 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 6, 2013 14:17:02 GMT -5
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Cano
Dec 6, 2013 14:19:05 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 6, 2013 14:19:05 GMT -5
Kuroda at 1/$16 is a very nice signing. There's certainly age risk, but thus far he hasn't succumbed. He did slump at the end of the season though, didn't he? But prior to that, hadn't he been having a great year?
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Cano
Dec 6, 2013 14:38:49 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 6, 2013 14:38:49 GMT -5
I think Beltran has more power than Choo, and to me, he's a more dynamic player. The age thing would be a drawback with Carlos, but I think he would make better use of the short porch. I guess I have an issue with (Ah) Choo, but I'm just not that impressed.
The end of the season slump really worries me with Kuroda.
Granderson to the Mets for 4/$60. Bad move for both, I'm afraid. Curtis is past his prime, injured alot last year, and I don't think he'll be quite the power hitter at CitiField that he was in the Bronx. Grandy's a good guy, so I'd like to be wrong here.
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Cano
Dec 6, 2013 14:40:27 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 6, 2013 14:40:27 GMT -5
Feldman to the Astros 3/$30. Feldman is absolutely useless to the Astros.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2013 7:10:23 GMT -5
I don't see what else the Mets could have done, so I like Granderson for them. They also don't have to forfeit a number one because they had one of the ten worst records in baseball. The Yankees signed Carlos Beltran, as losing Cano made them change their mind about giving him a third year. It just shows how insane spending is this offseason, as 35 year old Beltran couldn't find a three year deal, but 37 year old Beltran could! Cano's contract IS ridiculous, but the Yankees should've signed Cano anyway. He was willing to give them a massive hometown discount, but they wouldn't come within 70 million of the Mariners' offer. Meanwhile, they overpaid Ellsbury by about 50 million. The Steinbrenner sons are like their dad. They covet other team's players and don't appreciate their own.
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Cano
Dec 7, 2013 11:35:47 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 7, 2013 11:35:47 GMT -5
I think the years was what made the Yankees say no more than the money. They've been burned big on CC, Tex, and ARod. Would you rather have Ellsbury, McCann, and Beltran, or just Cano? The Yankees need to get themselves some pitching. They could have used Feldman much more than Houston can. I think when Cano is playing in front of a half empty stadium in June, with the M's 25 games out, he'll regret his decision. I don't know what the Mets could have done either. That's the bitch of it. You have to feel like you're doing something, so you sign a guy that maybe isn't ideal, but you still pay big money. I just don't think the Mets are going to get 40 HR Granderson, like maybe they think they are. I think the Yankees have made some good signings, though they did massively overpay for Ellsbury. He and Gardner have a chance to wreak some real havoc. McCann is made for the Stadium, and Beltran gives them some right handed pop, and still gets to take some shots at the porch from the left side. I think alot depends on how much Jeter has left. Perhaps a main reason for getting Ellsbury was not only to get him for the Yankees, but to take him away from the Sox. Kind of a double indemnity.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2013 12:11:07 GMT -5
Your assumption is that they signed all these FA's instead of Cano, while I think only the Beltran signing came because they lost Cano. There's no doubt the Yankees will be better than last year with all these signings and they're not done yet. People are speculating that the Giants can now get Ichiro or Vernon Wells dirt cheap with them relegated to the bench, but I'd like to see us do better for our hole in LF.
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Cano
Dec 7, 2013 12:17:01 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 7, 2013 12:17:01 GMT -5
I'd sure like us to do better than Vernon Wells. I don't think Ichiro has much left. Heyman still has the Giants being in on Choo.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2013 12:25:07 GMT -5
The one constant has been Sabean saying he won't forfeit his number one to sign a player with a QO. I doubt we're in on Choo.
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Cano
Dec 7, 2013 12:28:44 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 7, 2013 12:28:44 GMT -5
Not sure I assumed that, though I think they anticipated losing Cano. McCann certainly had nothing to do with Robbie.
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2013 12:38:40 GMT -5
By the way, Beltran supposedly turned down slightly more money from the Dbacks to sign with the Yankees. I'm sure glad the Yankees helped us out there. Did not want to see Beltran and Goldschmidt back to back!
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Cano
Dec 7, 2013 12:53:11 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 7, 2013 12:53:11 GMT -5
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Cano
Dec 7, 2013 13:50:34 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 7, 2013 13:50:34 GMT -5
Allen -- It just shows how insane spending is this offseason, as 35 year old Beltran couldn't find a three year deal, but 37 year old Beltran could! Rog -- Why is the spending insane? Teams are trying to improve themselves without have to give up players. As for why Carlos can get three years now as opposed to two years back two years ago, one need only look to Boagie. As Boagie says, Carlos doesn't play when he hurt. Well, at least not when he's hurt enough to miss a year with knee surgery. Two years ago Carlos had put in only one full season since having knee surgery. He was placed on the disabled list after joining the Giants and was said to take two hours before a game to prepare his knee to play. In other words, Carlos was a significant health risk. He's now two years older, but he's also had three straight pretty healthy seasons, so he's viewed as less of a health risk. Keep in mind too that Carlos is trying to play his way toward the Hall of Fame, so he should be motivated to play a long time. What you consider to be an insane market is a market that is more or less what I expected last summer when I was saying you weren't being realistic about the market. I agree with you that you would make few mistakes with the middle of the road or higher free agents you signed, since you wouldn't sign many of them. Regarding the Giants, one could argue that they overpaid for their free agent signings. In the other direction, one could argue that they had a multitude of needs to address, focused on the players they wanted, acted quickly and decisively, and got the players they wanted as the market has sorted itself out at lengths and amounts longer and higher than some expected. If the Giants had chosen not to open the purse strings, I think they would have had one heck of a time addressing their needs. As it is, they still have the need for a starting left fielder. It seems likely now that they will address that via platoon, and Mark's suggestion of Rajai Davis isn't a bad one at all. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2122&page=1#ixzz2moSXymtr
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Cano
Dec 7, 2013 14:28:32 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 7, 2013 14:28:32 GMT -5
Rog, I really, really wish you wouldn't attribute other people's quotes to me. The quote you attribute to me above is actually Mark's. For someone who's always bitching at people about being accurate and true, you're pretty slipshod in this dept.
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Cano
Dec 14, 2013 11:15:08 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 14, 2013 11:15:08 GMT -5
Someone offers you $175 million and you say they disrespected you. Only in baseball. What a freakin' moron.
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Cano
Dec 14, 2013 12:10:12 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 12:10:12 GMT -5
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Cano
Dec 14, 2013 12:12:59 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 12:12:59 GMT -5
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Cano
Dec 14, 2013 13:38:27 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 14, 2013 13:38:27 GMT -5
Here's something that might help you. If you look at the top of the square to the left of what is written, it has the name of the person that wrote it.
The ability to hit a ball with a stick doesn't keep Cano from being a moron. With all the hardship and suffering people are going through under the current administration, anyone with any intelligence would take more care with their words.
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Cano
Dec 14, 2013 14:21:07 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 14:21:07 GMT -5
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Cano
Dec 14, 2013 16:59:44 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 14, 2013 16:59:44 GMT -5
No, his words make him one. Move wherever you like.
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Cano
Dec 14, 2013 18:22:52 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 14, 2013 18:22:52 GMT -5
Allen -- The ability to hit a ball with a stick doesn't keep Cano from being a moron. Rog -- Nor does it make him one. I see your point; I see his. Shall we move on? Allen -- No, his words make him one. Let's examine this converstation, Allen. Allen: Fact. Rog: Fact. Fact. Non-confrontational question. Allen: Opinion. Why are you taking a factual discussion and suddenly introducing opinion as fact into it? I admitted I saw your point and suggested we move on. Why is it that AFTER I admit I see your point, you have to rattle on? I DON'T see your point in doing so on that one. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2122#ixzz2nUgWPki7
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Cano
Dec 14, 2013 18:52:42 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 14, 2013 18:52:42 GMT -5
Why do you hate opinions and independent thought so much? Anone who says that someone who offered them$17 million to hit a ball with a stick disespected them is at best a moron and at worst hopelessly out of touch with reality.
Interesting that you (of all people) would talk of somene rattling on.
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Cano
Dec 15, 2013 12:05:04 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 15, 2013 12:05:04 GMT -5
Allen --Why do you hate opinions and independent thought so much? Rog -- Hate them? I respect the heck out of them if they're well thought out and demonstrated. Allen -- Anone who says that someone who offered them$17 million to hit a ball with a stick disespected them is at best a moron and at worst hopelessly out of touch with reality. Rog -- Here is where you go horribly wrong, Allen. You make that point, and I say I understand it. I add that I also understand Cano's point. I AGREE WITH YOU AND DON'T SAY YOU ARE WRONG OR QUESTION YOUR POINT AT ALL, RATHER SUGGESTING WE MOVE ON. Then you somehow feel it necessary to say "No, his words make him one. Move wherever you like." Cano's words make him a moron? What do your words after I agree make you? There are some somewhat obvious words recommended in selling (not that you're selling anything here, just making a point). When the customer is sold, it's time to stop talking. You should have taken that advice and used your foot for walking. Believe me, Allen, I've done the same thing. And later realized how foolish I was to do so. You should have realized your foolishness rather than adding to it. At least as a guy who has made more or less the same mistake, that's what I believe. We all make mistakes. The important thing is to learn from them. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2122&page=1#17750#ixzz2nZ0qNVLUInteresting that you (of all people) would talk of somene rattling on. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2122&page=1#17750#ixzz2nYy6GpL4
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 15, 2013 12:29:34 GMT -5
If Cano is referring to the contract offer when he says he feels disrespected, I would agree with Allen. However, we don't know what went on here behind closed doors. For all we know Cano is referring to meetings where they might have accentuated his negatives as they sought to keep his asking price down. There might have even been meetings cancelled because they were busy wining and dining other free agents. You can still feel disrespected by people paying you big money. We just don't know the reason for his statement here.
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Cano
Dec 15, 2013 13:04:13 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 15, 2013 13:04:13 GMT -5
Mark -- If Cano is referring to the contract offer when he says he feels disrespected, I would agree with Allen. Rog -- Allen definitely has a point. The one thing we might want to consider though is context. Last winter Josh Hamilton -- a player with past drug problems who had a hard time staying healthy -- was paid $25 million per season. The timeframe was just half of the offer the Yankees allegedly made to Cano, but Robinson is a much better and healthier player than Hamilton and yet was offered only 70% as much per season. Perhaps teams are getting smarter about long-term contracts, but the context of the contracts of Hamilton and Albert Pujols with the Angels makes it understandable at least that Cano would feel the Yankees didn't give him proper respect for his accomplishments, which made him one of the very most valuable players in the majors. The past five seasons Cano's WAR has been a combined 32 WAR. When Hamilton signed a year ago, Josh's WAR over the previous five seasons as 22. 10 WAR is a big, big difference. Over the past five seasons Michael Morse's WAR has been only 4. Cano has been as valuable as Hamilton and Morse put together. The only active player in the majors I can think of with a WAR higher than Cano's 32 over the past five seasons is Miguel Cabrera, who has a 34 WAR over that time. Speaking of Cabrera, wasn't he once considered here to be of questionable attitude? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2122&page=1#17767#ixzz2nZCzpjna
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Cano
Dec 15, 2013 19:09:26 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 15, 2013 19:09:26 GMT -5
You stated that Robbie's ability to hit didn't make him a moron, so I pointed out to you that no, his words made him one. You implied that I had stated that because Cano was a good hitter, he was a moron. I was simply reiterating a point which you seem to have misunderstood.
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Cano
Dec 15, 2013 19:29:59 GMT -5
Post by allenreed on Dec 15, 2013 19:29:59 GMT -5
Allen --Why do you hate opinions and independent thought so much? Rog -- Hate them? I respect the heck out of them if they're well thought out and demonstrated. Allen-Evidence suggests otherwise, Rog. You attempt to control the conversation when subjects come up that you disagree with or don't want to discuss. If people bring these subjects up, you chide them for it and tell them they have no right to discuss it here. If someone posts something disagreeing with a player, a broadcaster, or a sportswriter, you act as if they have no business disagreeing with them, simply because they hold such a position. Another example would be your silly fight with Randy about whether or not he should be allowed to hate the Dodgers. If he wants to do so, and if it helps him enjoy basbeall, who are you to tell him he should do otherwise, or continually castigate him for doing so? As for stopping making your point when someone agrees with you, you've been crowing about run support here for years, as if you were the first and only one who ever thought of it. People have stated again and again that they agree with you, yet you just keep harping on it.
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Cano
Dec 16, 2013 10:36:29 GMT -5
Post by sharksrog on Dec 16, 2013 10:36:29 GMT -5
Allen-Evidence suggests otherwise, Rog. You attempt to control the conversation when subjects come up that you disagree with or don't want to discuss. If people bring these subjects up, you chide them for it and tell them they have no right to discuss it here. Rog -- We all have the right to bring up whatever we want. But since it's a San Francisco Giants board, I don't think we should linger on topics such as politics that have plenty of place in life, but little place being here for long periods of discussion. Or, if you wish, you could post your political thoughts here and go post your Giants thoughts on a political board. I believe you have that right, as well. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2122&page=1#17775#ixzz2neVhhxED
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