sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 13, 2013 16:10:18 GMT -5
These are the players who I, as of right now, want to see claiming the final three roster spots. Proctor is a veteran with good stuff and is hungry to be back in the big leagues and on a WS calibre roster. He wont squawk at being the last guy in the bullpen. Peguero has everything you want off the bench as a 5th outfielder. Speed, power and a great arm. This Spring he's hitting the ball very hard also. Abreu I'm less sure about but he's been around long enough to be a professional but still young enough to work his ass off for playing time.
Things can and probably will change my mind as the Spring progresses but this is where I'm at at this particular moment...the guys I like right now are by no means ahead by a wide margin.
~Dood
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 13, 2013 20:00:18 GMT -5
I'll throw my 3 in, I'd like to see how wrong I am a few weeks from now..
I think Bochy will go with 2 pitchers and Peguero, leaving the backup for the infield up to Arias.
I think the final outfield spot was Peguero's to lose, and he's had a great spring. The era of holding our young players back in Fresno is over. Peguero has had 449 at-bats in AAA, he's plenty ready.
So, my picks are...
Peguero, Runzler and Ramirez.
When they call up an infielder it will be Noonan or Bond (whoever's doing better at the time) and Runzler or Ramirez will be sent down.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 13, 2013 20:27:12 GMT -5
I disagree...Bochy wouldnt have brought in Abreu, Valdez and Tanaka only to then just say "nevermind" and go with a 13 man staff. 12 men is nearly too much with this starting rotation. Runzler could still make the staff but IMO, only if Mijares' elbow injury persists or if some other guy gets hurt in the pen. Ramirez is getting lit up...although I don't really know if it's because of lack of stuff or he just isnt locating. If his slider is still snappin, then maybe Bochy overlooks the high ERA. Proctor's stuff looked very good to me last night. 3 batters...2 Ks and one infield popup. Nasty split/changeup
~Dood
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 14, 2013 4:16:07 GMT -5
Randy- I disagree...Bochy wouldnt have brought in Abreu, Valdez and Tanaka only to then just say "nevermind" and go with a 13 man staff.
Boagie- Tanaka has 6 errors this spring, that's embarassing, he's out. Abreu only has 2 at-bats, unless he gets alot of at-bats between now and April he's out too. Of the 3 I'd say Valdez has the best chance, but Valdez is 34, is not a good hitter and only has 1 extra base hit this spring. Right now Bond would be my pick over the 3 you mention. But I think 13 pitchers will be more useful at the begining of the season because starting pitchers don't go very deep into games. Bond or Noonan can be called up at the end of April.
Randy- Ramirez is getting lit up...although I don't really know if it's because of lack of stuff or he just isnt locating. If his slider is still snappin, then maybe Bochy overlooks the high ERA.
Boagie- Ramirez's ERA has never been good in spring training.
2010 - 8.71 2011 - 7.94 2012 - 5.25
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 14, 2013 11:58:14 GMT -5
I see your logic about starting the season with 13 pitchers but I still don't agree with it. Abreu started the spring with an injury which is why he's just now getting back to action. Maybe Tanaka's glove does a similar thing to Ramirez' ERA in Spring...I doubt it would be easy to find out. I still say one of those guys will be on the team rather than a 13th pitcher, come April. Bond is probably more seasoned than Noonan. I do remember him at SJ a few years back and thought he was a pretty good hitter. But players of his age usually have either made the big leagues by now or aren't going to. That's not to say he missed his chance...just saying the odds are against him.
~Dood
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Post by allenreed on Mar 14, 2013 12:41:30 GMT -5
Interesting that the Giants have reacquired both players they gave up for Pagan.
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 14, 2013 16:11:34 GMT -5
Tanaka now has 7 errors, commited another throwing error in today's game. There's obviously an issue here.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 14, 2013 16:48:26 GMT -5
I'd be more worried about those errors if Tanaka didn't have 5 Japan League Gold Gloves sitting on his trophy case. I mean yes it's not equal to big league GGs but I mean you don't get those things just by eating Sushi and drinking warm Sake. I'd prefer Abreu over Kensuke but it isnt because of the cactus league errors. We should all remember that Brandon Crawford was kicking and throwing the ball all over the place early last year. By October, not many were thinking about that.
~Dood
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 14, 2013 19:14:43 GMT -5
2-3 errors yeah, 7 is alarming to me. Add that he's only batting .231 with 1 extra base hit and someone like Bond or Noonan become a more attractive option.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 14, 2013 19:20:59 GMT -5
Crawford had 15 errors by the middle of May...I dont remember you panicking then.
~Dood
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 14, 2013 19:38:15 GMT -5
Apples and oranges, Randy, Crawford was a young kid that we knew was going to have to deal with growing pains. Tananka is 31, and up against other people for a backup role, he's not our future, he's supposed to be a solid backup now. I'm not panicking, I just think Bond or Noonan might be a better option now and MIGHT work their way into being part of our future. Noonan and Bond have significant time in Frenso and both are worthy of consideration.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 14, 2013 20:22:36 GMT -5
ok to me this makes zero sense. In one post you say that we shouldnt be concerned with Ramon Ramirez being lit up because he is a veteran and his history says he will work it out. Then you say that Crawford being a young player was reason to not worry last year. Andrew Baggerly's latest article on CSNBayArea.com points out that Bochy isn't overly concerned about Kensuke's errors this spring because he has proven himself as a stellar defender over years of Japan League play.
You can put more value in 16 games or you can put it in 9 years of work...your choice. Remember he is fighting not for a starting job...he is fighting for a backup role and that is something where experience is a bonus.
~Dood
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 15, 2013 14:41:41 GMT -5
I never said we shouldn't be concerned about Ramirez. I just said his ERA has never been good in spring training. This year I realize it's a little different, this year he's fighting for a job. I'd be happier if Ramirez had a 0.00 ERA. But I also know Ramirez has been around enough that he's got a certain regimen as far as getting ready for spring training, and it usually results in his ERA not being very good.
Crawford was young, and made a ton of errors, but at the same time fans who were paying attention knew he was a good defender. I knew he was in a funk defensively, but I was almost certain he'd come out of it. I'm not certain Tanaka will.
As far as Bochy's comments on Tanaka...what's he going to say? "I'm very concerned?" it's spring training, he'll take it all in and make the decisions he needs to. He's not going to throw a player under the bus during spring training for his on the field play, that would be pointless. Bochy wants to see these guys playing like they all still have a good shot at making the team.
I'm not disagreeing with your picks here, Randy. You're welcome to pick whoever you want. In fact I said "lets see how wrong I am" I'm just giving my opinion on who I would pick at this point. It's a good possibility that none of my picks will make the final cut.
I do however feel that I'm justified in questioning Tanaka's many errors.
I think Ramirez has a higher ceiling and more sucess than Gaudin, or anyone else vying for that final spot in the pen. If Ramirez is right he'll be able to pitch in high pressure situations and be another tool for Bochy to use late in the game, much like he was in 2010 and '11. If Gaudin is pitching to his capablities, he'll be an decent long man, that's about all.
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 19, 2013 13:16:10 GMT -5
My thoughts here:
. As was mentioned before, it might make sense to go with 13 pitchers for a while, since the Giants have only one day off in the season's first fortnight and just two days in the first 3 1/2 weeks. The other side of that, of course, is that more pinch hitters will also be needed. (Going way back, they used to allow teams to carry 28 players for the first two weeks or so of the season.)
. Gaudin is believed to be in the lead for the 12th pitcher, a spot I thought Ramirez would take. Runzler may open on the roster as a replacement for Jose Mijares. In fact, I'd bet on it.
. The Giants want Tony Abreu to be the 6th infielder, but he's not healthy. Wilson Valdez is believed to be in the lead. Kinsuke Tanaka has been given every chance to win the spot, but he hasn't fared well and is limited positionally. Brock Bond has hit very well and could possibly win the spot because he might better complement Guillermo Quiroz's bat, if Hector Sanchez can't answer the bell. Nick Noonan has fallen on his face despite a large trial, and was probably a bit of a longshot to begin with.
. Francisco Peguero has been the best of the #5 outfielder prospects, but the Giants may want him playing everday in Fresno. Cole Gillaspie -- called an insurance salesman or something like that by one of our posters -- greatly helped his cause with his walk-off home run Sunday. Roger Kieschnick has 13 strikeouts in 32 at bats, and future center fielder Gary Brown has been sent out with 9 whiffs in 28 at bats. Both players were expected to hone their skills at Fresno, along with Juan Perez, who has also bombed this spring.
I would say the leaders down the backstretch are Gaudin, Valdez and Gillaspie. Runzler and Quiroz may be surprise roster participants due to injury.
As an aside, two players ( one a former Giant and the other a possible future Gigante) have been badly put down recently on this board.
Carlos Beltran was called a slacker, when the doctor who repaired his injured knee expressed surprise that he came back as soon as he did and that he was playing as much as he was.
Then Cole Gillespie was called an insurance salesman, when it is quite possible he will earn a roster spot.
What frustrates me is that it is very seldom that anyone says, "Gee, I shouldn't have said that."
In reality, put Angel Pagan in between Beltran and Gillespie, and a team wouldn't have a bad outfield. Certainly not a great one, but perhaps an acceptable one.
I think it is wise to listen to Bobby Evans. Before spring training a year ago he said to watch Gregor Blanco and Heath Hembree. Blanco went on to become a solid contributor to a World Series team, and Hembree likely would have also done so if he wasn't done in by injury.
This spring Evans has mentioned Gaudin, Abreu and Gillespie favorably. That was a week and a half ago though, and Abreu stayed healthy only long enough to play in one game. I think Gaudin and Gillespie are still the leaders though.
Back when Francisco Peguero had gotten off to such a great start (He's since cooled a bit.), it was suggested to Evans that Peguero would be the 5th outfielder. Evans replied, "Cole Gillespie will have something to do with that." Of course, he went on to add, "Unless he's selling insurance."
I'm here to ensure that Cole won't be selling insurance -- unless it's as the Giants' fifth outfielder.
By the way, although I'm not as excited as many are, Fresno could have an intriguing outfield this year that includes Brown, Peguero, Kieschnick and Perez.
As for my three prevous predictions to make the roster as final pitcher, infielder and outfielder -- Ramirez, Tanaka and Gillespie -- the over/under now stands at 0.5. Put another way, the odds of one or more of the three making the season-opening roster would seem to be about 3 to 5. The odds of all three making it are 25 to 1 (at best).
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 19, 2013 15:38:36 GMT -5
You've wrapped it up quite nicely here, Rog.
With the walkoff homerun I think Gillespie has worked his way back into the discussion. I may have been too quick in counting him out.
It would appear that Gillespie and Gaudin have a good shot at making the team despite my lack of faith in these two from the begining.
But, spring isnt over, and as we've found out from our first picks, alot can change in a week or two.
My first picks - Brian Wilson, Nick Noonan/or Conor Gillaspie, and Brett Pill
Your picks - Brandon Lyon, Tanaka, and Roger Kieschnick
Of my picks, 2 are not on the Giants, and one is out for about a month due to an injury. That leaves Noonan who has a slim chance at making the team out of spring.
Of yours, Brandon Lyon is not a Giant, Tanaka has had a very rough time in the field, and Kieshnick seems about as likely as Noonan to break camp with the team.
These 3 spots might go down to the wire here, perhaps into the Bay Bridge series.
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 19, 2013 23:27:00 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 19, 2013 23:32:47 GMT -5
Randy -- 12 men is nearly too much with this starting rotation. Rog -- I have never been a fan of the Dozen Dealers on a pitching staff, but when one looks at how the Giants used their bullpen depth last season, I certainly have no quibble with it here. As for how the starting rotation might dictate a lesser numerative bullpen, I would guess it depends more on Tim Lincecum than anyone else. Last season Tim threw 40 fewer innings than in his two Cy Young seasons. I don't like the idea of Tim and Barry Zito going back-to-back in the rotation. If Tim's innings don't come up considerably, the bullpen could get a considerable workout in the two consecutive games pitched by the Giants' #3 and #4 rotation starters. I don't think the Giants will go with 13 pitchers, even early in the season, but with few days off until late April, one can make an argument for that tactic. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1609&page=1#ixzz2O3DiNoJw
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Post by allenreed on Mar 20, 2013 16:13:05 GMT -5
Rog -- I had forgotten about those picks. The bold one was Lyon, who wasn't yet a Giant and never became one. Talk about being off the mark! Allen- Yes. Not being cowardly, Lyon was a pick that definitely took courage.
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 20, 2013 17:15:37 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 20, 2013 22:25:51 GMT -5
Allen- Yes. Not being cowardly, Lyon was a pick that definitely took courage.
Boagie- good stuff
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 21, 2013 0:20:48 GMT -5
I mentioned Andrew Baggarly's comments on Dodger prospect Yasiel Puig today. He also had comments on the three position battles.
Regarding the 12th pitcher, he felt Chad Gaudin had the clear edge over Scott Proctor, although he said the Giants would be watching Scott carefully. I believe -- although I could be misremembering here -- that Proctor has already agreed to go to Fresno if he doesn't make the Giants squad. I posted about it after hearing Bobby Evans, but I can't remember for sure what it was.
Regarding the 5th outfielder, Baggarly was leaning toward Cole Gillespie. He said that the recent return to healthy of Andres Torres and the return to health of Gregor Blanco's bat augured AGAINST Francisco Peguero, since those two things would likely limit his playing time with the Giants.
The Giants still have hope for Peguero as a starting outfielder and likely don't want him wasting away on their bench. (Wonder where we heard that one before!)
As for the 6th infielder, Andy said that the Giants might as well at this point put Tony Abreu on the DL and let him get into shape in minor league games. He felt the Giants might look outside the organization. (Isn't Ryan Theriot still available?)
Baggarly spoke about how Barry Zito wanted to stay with the Giants beyond this year but said the Giants would be unlikely to exercise their option on Barry. Depending on how Barry performs this year, he could well be right, and I know most would say it would be insane for the Giants to even CONSIDER exercising Zito's $18 million option.
But what most don't seem to be aware of is that Zito's contract has a $7 million buyout for not exercising the option. The decision the Giants will make will turn out to be a net $11 million decision.
If Zito pitches well this season and stays healthy, I wouldn't be shocked to see the Giants sign him to a halfway reasonable two-year contract a year from now.
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 21, 2013 0:21:16 GMT -5
Just think if Brad Lyon had signed with the Tigers.
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 21, 2013 11:21:05 GMT -5
Rog- Just think if Brad Lyon had signed with the Tigers.
Boagie- And if they got Larry Baer to be the president.
Lyon and Tigers and Baer...Oh my.
It's official, spring training is too long.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 21, 2013 11:23:45 GMT -5
Rog - I mentioned Andrew Baggarly's comments on Dodger prospect Yasiel Puig today. He also had comments on the three position battles.
Regarding the 12th pitcher, he felt Chad Gaudin had the clear edge over Scott Proctor,
Dood - Personally, from what I know and have seen from both pitchers, I have to assume the Giants are leaning towards Gaudin as insurance against the starting 5, which doesn't have much of a reliable 6th option in Fresno. His stuff is pretty unremarkable and I can't remember being impressed with him at any point in his career. Looking at it purely from the standpoint of which pitcher is better, I'd have to say Proctor impresses me more. One example of the Giants choosing NOT to carry the best 25.
Regarding the 5th outfielder, Baggarly was leaning toward Cole Gillespie. He said that the recent return to healthy of Andres Torres and the return to health of Gregor Blanco's bat augured AGAINST Francisco Peguero, since those two things would likely limit his playing time with the Giants.The Giants still have hope for Peguero as a starting outfielder and likely don't want him wasting away on their bench. (Wonder where we heard that one before!)
Dood - And we have example number two of the Giants refusing to keep the best 25 on the ML roster. While the 12th pitcher and the 5th outfielder arent usually the most crucial positions on the club, I'm still not liking it. In the vernacular of the youth of today...whatever.
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 21, 2013 14:26:44 GMT -5
Rog -- Regarding the 12th pitcher, he felt Chad Gaudin had the clear edge over Scott Proctor, Dood - Personally, from what I know and have seen from both pitchers, I have to assume the Giants are leaning towards Gaudin as insurance against the starting 5, which doesn't have much of a reliable 6th option in Fresno. His stuff is pretty unremarkable and I can't remember being impressed with him at any point in his career. Looking at it purely from the standpoint of which pitcher is better, I'd have to say Proctor impresses me more. One example of the Giants choosing NOT to carry the best 25. Rog -- Maybe. Maybe not. Your comment is extremely presumptious. Proctor is 36 with a 4.78 career ERA. Gaudin is 30 and at 4.63. Proctor didn't pitch in organized baseball last season. Gaudin threw 69 innings for the Marlins, posting a 4.54 ERA. Gaudin's non-fielding related ERA's were for the most part lower than his posted 4.54 -- as much as 7/10ths of a run lower. Gaudin had better than a 2/1 K/BB ratio last season. Proctor hasn't had that since 2006. Proctor's ERA this spring is 6.00. Gaudin's is 2.93. Personally I would be very tempted to go with Ramon Ramirez. Ramon lost 1.3 mph off his fastball last season, but his outstanding 13.7% line drive rate indicates he may also have pitched in bad luck. Prior to last season, Ramirez had been arguably the most consistent pitcher in baseball ERA-wise. Then again, this spring his ERA is nearly four times as high as Gaudin's, just as Proctors is twice as high as Chad's. Maybe Gaudin IS the guy. Then again, Dan Runzler has pitched great this pre-season. Maybe he's the guy. But I think Dan will be taking the injured Jose Mijares' place as the #11 guy on the staff. The point is, one can make an argument for any of several pitchers. There are probably others I haven't even discussed here. Aren't the Giants entitled to their own opinion? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1609&page=1#9670#ixzz2OCbFbgNG
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 21, 2013 14:29:14 GMT -5
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 21, 2013 15:10:46 GMT -5
Rog -- Proctor is 36 with a 4.78 career ERA. Gaudin is 30 and at 4.63.
Proctor didn't pitch in organized baseball last season.
Dood - his stuff is as good or better than it was before his injury
Gaudin threw 69 innings for the Marlins, posting a 4.54 ERA. Gaudin's non-fielding related ERA's were for the most part lower than his posted 4.54 -- as much as 7/10ths of a run lower.
Dood - I have said for many years that ERAs for relief pitchers are often deceiving because one or two really bad outings can disproportionally skew the ERA in a negative sense and it is impossible just by looking at the ERAs of these two pitchers which was hurt worse by this reality.
And really...concocting yet another meaningless stat? Non-fielding related ERA? WTF is that??
Gaudin had better than a 2/1 K/BB ratio last season. Proctor hasn't had that since 2006.
Dood - mostly due to injury and, according to Kruk, alcoholism...which Scott says is now behind him.
Proctor's ERA this spring is 6.00. Gaudin's is 2.93.
Dood - Gaudin has been able to avoid very bad outings thus far but the spring average against and WHIPs of both pitchers are fairly similar. Stuff-wise, Im more impressed with Proctor.
Personally I would be very tempted to go with Ramon Ramirez. Ramon lost 1.3 mph off his fastball last season, but his outstanding 13.7% line drive rate indicates he may also have pitched in bad luck.
Dood - Rags, as much as anybody, should know how Ramon's stuff might translate to the regular season. If he backs Ramon I wouldnt disagree with that decision.
Prior to last season, Ramirez had been arguably the most consistent pitcher in baseball ERA-wise. Then again, this spring his ERA is nearly four times as high as Gaudin's, just as Proctors is twice as high as Chad's.
Maybe Gaudin IS the guy.
Dood - Well, according to everything out there at the moment, he is...but that doesn't mean he is the right guy.
Then again, Dan Runzler has pitched great this pre-season. Maybe he's the guy. But I think Dan will be taking the injured Jose Mijares' place as the #11 guy on the staff.
Dood - I doubt very much the Giants will keep 4 lefties in the pen so if Mijares is healthy--and he was facing live hitters yesterday--then Dan will most likely be left out once again, barring injuries to Affeldt or Lopez.
The point is, one can make an argument for any of several pitchers. There are probably others I haven't even discussed here.
Dood - just off the top of my head, probably Hembree, Otero, Loux, Bochy and Edlefson were also given an opportunity going into the Cactus League.
Aren't the Giants entitled to their own opinion?
Dood - did I ever say they werent? Indeed their opinion is the one that counts. That doesn't mean it will be the right one.
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 21, 2013 15:13:42 GMT -5
Rog -- Regarding the 5th outfielder, Baggarly was leaning toward Cole Gillespie. He said that the recent return to healthy of Andres Torres and the return to health of Gregor Blanco's bat augured AGAINST Francisco Peguero, since those two things would likely limit his playing time with the Giants.The Giants still have hope for Peguero as a starting outfielder and likely don't want him wasting away on their bench. (Wonder where we heard that one before!) Dood - And we have example number two of the Giants refusing to keep the best 25 on the ML roster. Rog -- Again, maybe; maybe not. Did you know that Gillespie's career OPS is 100 points higher than Peguero's? Did you know that it is 50 points higher than Peguero's best season? Did you know that last season it was nearly 200 points higher? (Peguero was coming back from an injuy, so some of that differential can be discounted.) Did you know that two years ago Gillespie's OPS was 100 points higher even though Cole played in AAA while Francisco split time between High A and AA? Did you know that Francisco's 128 career steals while being caught 39 times isn't nearly as much better than Cole's 112 and 36 as you would have expected it to be? Now, let's consider what the Giants will use their 5th outfielder for. Mostly pinch hitting, with a little pinch running and the odd game started. More than anything else, they need a power bat off the bench. Gillaspie isn't a true slugger, but he has 80 career homers to Francisco's 32. Maybe it's not power the Giants need, but rather a guy to get on base. Cole's .393 career OBP is nearly 60 points higher than Peguero's .335. I would assume the speedy Peguero would make the better pinch runner, although Gillespie himself is fast enough to have played all three outfield positions. As has been the case with base stealing, Gillespie may make up some of the difference with wisdom and instincts. Peguero has the advantage in the outfield, being a plus fielder with a plus plus arm. But how often is the 5th outfielder even going to see the defensive side of the ball? It is unlikely the Giants will need a defensive replacement for any of their top four outfielders. Peguero has clearly been the better hitter this spring, although he also has the advantage of having played winter ball, for whatever it's worth. If one looks objectively at the above, he might well conclude that at least at this point in time, Gillespie -- not Peguero -- is the better player and that at the very least Gillespie provides more of what the Giants need from their 5th outfielder. Again, aren't the Giants entitled to their opinion? Or should they automatically be accused of not choosing their top 25 players (at least based on roles to be played) just because their opinion disagrees with yours? Maybe, just for our edification, you can show us how you became so convinced that Proctor is better than Gaudin and that Peguero is better than Gillespie. The ball's in your court, Dood. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1609&page=1#ixzz2OCji7400
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 21, 2013 15:27:35 GMT -5
Here is what I do know...Gillespie got sent back down to the minors after a cup of coffee in 2011 and hasnt had a sniff of the show since. He was kicked to the curb by a mediocre team because he had no chance of making the big league roster (not even as a 5th outfielder). He's 3 months from his 29th birthday and most players who havent stuck in the big leagues by this time have a very small chance of doing so. If that wasnt enough, I could say that an arrogant stats geek I know on this board believes Peguero is better because his very first argument in favor of Gillespie was not that it was better for this roster, but that it was better for Peguero to get everyday ABs in Fresno.
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 22, 2013 9:54:01 GMT -5
Randy -- Here is what I do know... Rog -- OK. But how about the stuff I ASKED if you knew? Am I to assume you are completely ignorant of those things (I think to the greater extent, you were.) and still ARE? I would presume you know it now. Randy -- Gillespie got sent back down to the minors after a cup of coffee in 2011 and hasnt had a sniff of the show since. Rog -- As a Dodger hater, you should love this guy. The Dodgers won the final game Cole played for the Diamondbacks, but not without a fight. Cole hit a grand slam against them in the 9th. Randy -- He was kicked to the curb by a mediocre team because he had no chance of making the big league roster (not even as a 5th outfielder). Rog -- Don't know that he had no chance of making the roster, but clearly the Diamondbacks didn't think it was very good, or at least chose to go another way. Randy -- He's 3 months from his 29th birthday and most players who havent stuck in the big leagues by this time have a very small chance of doing so. Rog -- I agree with you on this one. Randy -- If that wasnt enough, I could say that an arrogant stats geek I know on this board believes Peguero is better because his very first argument in favor of Gillespie was not that it was better for this roster, but that it was better for Peguero to get everyday ABs in Fresno. Rog -- You can tell the difference between when I'm giving my opinion, when I'm paraphrasing Bobby Evans and when I'm merely stating possibilities, can't you? You seem like a guy in denial here, Randy. You ignore the points you wish to ignore and give weight to the ones you choose to accept. Hey, I don't know for sure which way the Giants should -- or will -- go here. I don't think even they know that. But I quote knowledgeable sources in Andrew Baggarly and (especially) Bobby Evans, throw out ideas to consider, and give my own opinion -- which is subject to change as I believe the facts warrant. As is the case with a couple of other posters here, you seem to refuse to change your mind or even acknowledge a good point. Even on this subject, I used what BOBBY EVANS said to help forge my original (after the pre-spring training Roger Kieschnick choice) opinion that Gillespie would make it. I later briefly changed my opinion to Peguero before changing back after Gillespie's walk-off home run. I have seen it written or spoken (perhaps by you) that Cole is taking too many good pitches, and that is what I have seen, as well -- although I have seen few of his at bats. I'm not entirely sure he can hit secondary pitches. He looked bad falling down on that one play (although he has made a few other good ones). Neither player is hitting right now, although his fabulous start still has Peguero 110 points ahead of Gillespie, and that's a lot. Now, as for what I know (or at least appears highly likely): You seem to disregard a lot of points made that go against your opinion. You don't seem to refute them, but rather to simply ignore them. Your last post is a clear example. You try to demean, which is often a sign of desperation. You very rarely change your opinion. I'm sure you have on the odd occasion, but I don't remember it. These are things I believe strongly -- based on the evidence. By the way, Randy, I will re-issue a question I have asked several times here without any signinficant answer: What is it that you know about the game from watching that I don't? I believe it was you who made the ridiculous claim that I don't even watch the games, so the very least you could do to support your claim -- even if it is false -- is to give many and clear examples of things you know that I don't. It's time to step to the plate, Randy. I'm looking for hard, cold facts. Not your frequent ignorance (in the sense of ignoring). Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1609&page=1#9677#ixzz2OHMpCPDJ
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