Sleep walking again

[klaiggeb]

This is a scene we have seen from the giants for too many years now

They go on a road trip and I don't know if they're outside seeing or partying or playing golf or what ever they're doing, But they come to the ballpark and they are not ready to play

They are not ready to play

And we've seen this too many times over the years

Too many times

[pachyderm]

Hopefully they wake up... gotta be harder playing that first game on the road... right?

[klaiggeb]

If this was a pick up game I would agree

But these Are major leaguers who have been doing this for years

Everybody makes excuses and say Hitters cannot lay off that high fast ball.

I say horse crap! Players learn, Like Is matt williams learned, To stay off the breaking pitch away

And now they're trying to tell me they can't lay off the fast ball high?

These players have grown accustomed to traveling. I will not accept the excuse that they were tired


I was want to ask them the question.What were you doing on your off Day?

And I am pretty sure I would not be happy with their answer

[reedonly]

I'm not sure if you were thinking that they were up all night in Boston partying but I think it is more likely that most tried to fit in some family time between San Francisco and Boston.  They should have been ready to go in Boston but I think the modern ballplayers probably feel they are not on the clock on a travel day.  That being said, I don't believe it was like the partying the NBA players and NCAA football players do on the road and they may not have traveled together as a single unit. 

[klaiggeb]

I only implied it was a possibility

If they were playing golf or sigor doing other things when gametime came around they were not focused

And As I posted this is a scene we have seen replayed too many times in the last four years

[reedonly]

This group is more likely to be changing diapers than to go all night partying

[klaiggeb]

I never said they were partying, Reed, I implied that was a possibility.

Regardless, the reality is this:

1-In both games they were unprepared to play

2-In both games above average pitchers suddenly looked like Sandy Koufax

3-In both games hitters were looking to pull the ball. You could see their front sides flying.
Biggest offenders:
Conforto
Estrada
Chapman

4-In NEITHER game did they show a plan of attack going in.

Yesterday's guy was a cutter/slider guy. Instead of looking to go to RF, they were looking to clear the wall in left.

THAT is what I saw

5-Melvin's ridiculous decision to hit Chapman 3rd and then 4th was beyond stupid.

he's NOT swinging the bat well. YAZ is.

6-Melvin's RIDICULOUS decision to go with an opener was beyond STUPID.

As I posted in another thread we have ZERO off days coming up...and HE decides to let the bullpen, which has been terrible, eat up innings we don't have the arms to do.

7-With a team of veterans, these morons have no clue at the plate. They don't. And they show it more and more each day.

8-Disagree if you like but we have hit into more BAD luck and the opposition has hit into more GOOD luck than I ever thought possible.

Now, add CRAPPY pitching to that bad luck and you have a series sweep all set up.

And not only that, I look for the Phillies to take at least 2 of 3 games.

[reedonly]

Giants hitting into bad luck and opposition hitting into good luck may be the effect of a lack of an experienced coach like Ron Wotus, who was in charge of positioning.

[klaiggeb]

Not so much positioning, Reed, although you may have a point.

More the floinks and doinks and seeing eye ground balls that are dropping.

Basically they hit it, it's a hit.

We hammer it... it's an out.

[reedonly]

It depends on the town they are visiting. There's probably more sightseeing or golf in places like Miami, New York, Tampa, and so forth. Less sightseeing in Philadephia, DC, Atlanta, many of which can give San Francisco a run for their money in terms of crime and filth. I think they were trying to stuff in family time into the travel day but with the rigors of travel nowadays, it was probably not the best idea.  Twenty years ago, they might have gone for a night on the town but sightseeing in homeless-infested big cities is probably a lot lower on the priority list. 

I've been to Boston and if I were the Giants, I would have made a bee line from Logan, straight through the Ted Williams tunnel, and right to the hotel.  That place scared me worse than New York and DC.  

[klaiggeb]

All of your points are really good ones

But none of them explain the sleepwalking phenomena we saw

[reedonly]

Its a couple of things. West coast teams do a lot of traveling and there is the extra couple of hours time change. Second is that they've clamped down on the use of amphetamines and related substances so those can no longer be used as a crutch to bounce back. Before, they might have been able to get away with it.

Krukow mentioned that its more of an issue when there is a big temperature change from west coast to east coast because a player can lose as much as seven pounds in the heat.  Temperature was likely not an issue from SF to Boston but Krukow feels that the effect of temperature change is greater than that of time zone shift. 

Also, they have to tip their cap to Boston, who have been pitching well.  Remember, Andrew Bailey is their pitching coach and he knows the Giants' weaknesses.

[pachyderm]

Maybe, just maybe, we're horrible.

[klaiggeb]

You know, Pach, if we are still playing this poorly by the end of April, I will agree with you.

My anger and disgust at this group grows with each passing day, from dumb base running, to a catcher not hustling on a passed ball last night to allow a run to score.

IMHO, all of what we are seeing is a problem of focus. We don't have it.

And Farhan can be as positive as he wants that Chapman will break out, to me it's rhetoric; stuff he has to say to cover his OWN FANNY because he's the idiot that made the deal in the first place!

We could have gotten this lack of production from JD!

Wait a minute! This IS the lack of production we got from JD!

The end of April... that's my deadline.

[Islandboagie]

We're not horrible, I'd say we're about a .500 team.

I'll say it again, I think the focus during the offseason should've been pitching and pitching alone. I liked the acquisition of Hicks, and I liked shipping out Desclafani and Haniger for Robbie Ray. Outside of that, I felt our acquisitions were just blocking our young kids from getting a chance.

That said, I didn't hate signing Lee, because I felt we could still get our young outfielders into corner outfield positions. And I was ok with getting Soler to be our everyday DH.

Getting Murphy was pointless, we already had Bart who could've been a perfectly good backup/platoon catcher.

Getting Chapman was pointless, we had JD Davis, and Schmitt waiting in the wings..plus Flores is an adequate 3rd baseman platoon. His defensive struggles are up the middle, not on the corners.

Even after our moves, I felt Matos and Luciano were guaranteed to break camp with the team. I'm not sure when or why that got derailed. They should be on the team now, but we're holding them back for some scrap heap veterans who are playing just decently enough to keep onto their jobs. We aren't winning a Championship with our current roster, so why not groom some kids that could very possibly put us in a position to do that in the near future?

What Farhan and like-minded folks don't understand is that launch angles and hitting speed aren't everything. We're not losing these games by a ton of runs. Our rotation is pretty darned good and has managed to keep us in these games despite our inability to score runs. But when we had the kids up in September last season, they did things to score runs, and we started to play like a competitive team. They weren't knocking the cover off the ball, but they got on base, put the ball in play, and ran the bases with some intensity. Not to mention the defense also improved, which can also impact close games.

I can't be certain, but I believe if we had started the season with Schmitt at 3rd, Luciano at SS, and Matos and Ramos in the outfield, we would be above .500 right now. Again, not certain, but I feel confident enough that I'd put money on it.

[Islandboagie]

Boly-You know, Pach, if we are still playing this poorly by the end of April, I will agree with you.

Boagie- does that mean you agree with him? Because it's now May 4th.

[reedonly]

They really like their launch angle and exit velo metrics because that seems to be the only reasons why Chapman and Soler are in their respective spots in the batting order.

I mentioned a few months ago after the Yamamoto deal that any free agent deal would be a mistake. To their credit, they minimized the damage by having those opt-outs but so far, Snell, Chapman, Soler have fallen short, as we expected. Its obvious FZ is calling the shots and not Melvin, as Boagie suggested. Stupid to have given up on Bart now that Bailey might have to go on concussion protocol.

All is not lost though. Melvin seems to have corrected Hjelle and we've got youngsters knocking on the door.

[klaiggeb]

May 4, 2024 9:47:05 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

Boly-You know, Pach, if we are still playing this poorly by the end of April, I will agree with you.

Boagie- does that mean you agree with him? Because it's now May 4th.

SOOOOPPPPPSSSSSS!

I meant the end of may.

Good catch on the old guy, boagie!

[klaiggeb]

May 4, 2024 9:45:16 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

We're not horrible, I'd say we're about a .500 team.

I'll say it again, I think the focus during the offseason should've been pitching and pitching alone. I liked the acquisition of Hicks, and I liked shipping out Desclafani and Haniger for Robbie Ray. Outside of that, I felt our acquisitions were just blocking our young kids from getting a chance.

That said, I didn't hate signing Lee, because I felt we could still get our young outfielders into corner outfield positions. And I was ok with getting Soler to be our everyday DH.

Getting Murphy was pointless, we already had Bart who could've been a perfectly good backup/platoon catcher.

Getting Chapman was pointless, we had JD Davis, and Schmitt waiting in the wings..plus Flores is an adequate 3rd baseman platoon. His defensive struggles are up the middle, not on the corners.

Even after our moves, I felt Matos and Luciano were guaranteed to break camp with the team. I'm not sure when or why that got derailed. They should be on the team now, but we're holding them back for some scrap heap veterans who are playing just decently enough to keep onto their jobs. We aren't winning a Championship with our current roster, so why not groom some kids that could very possibly put us in a position to do that in the near future?

What Farhan and like-minded folks don't understand is that launch angles and hitting speed aren't everything. We're not losing these games by a ton of runs. Our rotation is pretty darned good and has managed to keep us in these games despite our inability to score runs. But when we had the kids up in September last season, they did things to score runs, and we started to play like a competitive team. They weren't knocking the cover off the ball, but they got on base, put the ball in play, and ran the bases with some intensity. Not to mention the defense also improved, which can also impact close games.

I can't be certain, but I believe if we had started the season with Schmitt at 3rd, Luciano at SS, and Matos and Ramos in the outfield, we would be above .500 right now. Again, not certain, but I feel confident enough that I'd put money on it.

I could not agree with you more about Murphy and Bart. That made NO SENSE then, and even less sense now. Murphy is NOT a good catcher. He's adequate at best. Certainly better than Sabol, but Sabol has barely caught in his life!

Everything I see Farhan doing is just... and I mean JUST, keeping whatever team we have in whatever year, competitive. Nothing more.

IMHO, he's an incompetent boob who is far over his head.

Again, MY OPINION, there is a place for metrics in the game. Defensive positioning being at the top of my list. But the majority of that crap is over rated, and launch angle is at the top of my list on the offensive side.

I have been saying all along we could have gotten the same NON PRODUCTION from Davis & or Schmitt as we have Chapman.

And this is one of the areas that DEMONSTRATES CONCLUSIVELY to me, anyway, that Melvin is BIASED for former players.

Ahmed had ONE hot streak, but with his CRAPPY mechanics at the plate, and his age, we'll be lucky if he hits .220.

We could have gotten that from Luciano, albeit not with the same defense.

Fitz IMPRESSED me at SS last time he played there.

But of course, we're going to run Ahmed the automatic out there every day until he breaks down and gets hurt.

And now Bailey's down for who knows how long.

I'm guessing 15 day IL starting today

[Islandboagie]

If nothing else, that's one of the more colorful posts of the year, Boly.

[reedonly]

May 4, 2024 11:40:32 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

May 4, 2024 9:45:16 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

We're not horrible, I'd say we're about a .500 team.

I'll say it again, I think the focus during the offseason should've been pitching and pitching alone. I liked the acquisition of Hicks, and I liked shipping out Desclafani and Haniger for Robbie Ray. Outside of that, I felt our acquisitions were just blocking our young kids from getting a chance.

That said, I didn't hate signing Lee, because I felt we could still get our young outfielders into corner outfield positions. And I was ok with getting Soler to be our everyday DH.

Getting Murphy was pointless, we already had Bart who could've been a perfectly good backup/platoon catcher.

Getting Chapman was pointless, we had JD Davis, and Schmitt waiting in the wings..plus Flores is an adequate 3rd baseman platoon. His defensive struggles are up the middle, not on the corners.

Even after our moves, I felt Matos and Luciano were guaranteed to break camp with the team. I'm not sure when or why that got derailed. They should be on the team now, but we're holding them back for some scrap heap veterans who are playing just decently enough to keep onto their jobs. We aren't winning a Championship with our current roster, so why not groom some kids that could very possibly put us in a position to do that in the near future?

What Farhan and like-minded folks don't understand is that launch angles and hitting speed aren't everything. We're not losing these games by a ton of runs. Our rotation is pretty darned good and has managed to keep us in these games despite our inability to score runs. But when we had the kids up in September last season, they did things to score runs, and we started to play like a competitive team. They weren't knocking the cover off the ball, but they got on base, put the ball in play, and ran the bases with some intensity. Not to mention the defense also improved, which can also impact close games.

I can't be certain, but I believe if we had started the season with Schmitt at 3rd, Luciano at SS, and Matos and Ramos in the outfield, we would be above .500 right now. Again, not certain, but I feel confident enough that I'd put money on it.

I could not agree with you more about Murphy and Bart. That made NO SENSE then, and even less sense now. Murphy is NOT a good catcher. He's adequate at best. Certainly better than Sabol, but Sabol has barely caught in his life!

Everything I see Farhan doing is just... and I mean JUST, keeping whatever team we have in whatever year, competitive. Nothing more.

IMHO, he's an incompetent boob who is far over his head.

Again, MY OPINION, there is a place for metrics in the game. Defensive positioning being at the top of my list. But the majority of that crap is over rated, and launch angle is at the top of my list on the offensive side.

I have been saying all along we could have gotten the same NON PRODUCTION from Davis & or Schmitt as we have Chapman.

And this is one of the areas that DEMONSTRATES CONCLUSIVELY to me, anyway, that Melvin is BIASED for former players.

Ahmed had ONE hot streak, but with his CRAPPY mechanics at the plate, and his age, we'll be lucky if he hits .220.

We could have gotten that from Luciano, albeit not with the same defense.

Fitz IMPRESSED me at SS last time he played there.

But of course, we're going to run Ahmed the automatic out there every day until he breaks down and gets hurt.

And now Bailey's down for who knows how long.

I'm guessing 15 day IL starting today

The problem is that Zaidi tend to look more at the designer metrics like launch and exits more than the traditional stats.  I have read that he liked Murphy because he wanted to get the offensive production out of the catcher position that he lost when Posey retired.  Having Murphy replace Posey is problematic because he cannot stay healthy, his defense is poor, and most of his traditional stats are not very good.   I cannot fathom why Zaidi thought anything of Murphy outside of using the designer stats especially when they had Bart on the roster.  Bart and Murphy may be a push on offense but Bart's game handling is superior to Murphy's.  There was no reason to plunk $7 million on Murphy (which translates to about $9 million due to luxury tax).  Signing Murphy was a minor move at the time but there is a domino effect of losing Bart, then injuries, then bringing up Sabol and Reetz prematurely. 

[reedonly]

Boly: playing golf

Evan Longoria is a big golfer and I would not have put it past him to try to fit in a few rounds on travel days. He seemed to prioritize golf over rehabbing injuries (one instance led to late pre-season surgery). That guy did a lot of leader talking when he was on the team during the season but his actions indicate that getting baseball-ready was not high on his list. In fact, Longoria was very upset when a grounder caused a broken thumb causing him to miss a tee time he booked at Pebble Beach. If he had shown half of the passion for baseball that he had for golf, the Giants might not have felt the need to sign Chapman or LaStella.

The handling of Longoria's broken finger was especially irritating. He was hit by a pitch in August 2021. In March of 2022, he said he felt some pain while swinging a bat so he had surgery which kept him out until the middle of 2022. If he did not feel discomfort until March, it likely means he did not pick up a bat between the end of the playoffs until February, costing the Giants about three months.

[reedonly]

If the season continues as it has been going, it is hard to see Zaidi coming back for next season. Although I would love for them to fire Zaidi, I'm not sure if it helps much because I feel they need to get rid of Baer somehow, also.

[reedonly]

They had better hope SOler and Chapman figure out something because with their contracts, they are going to be untradeable, and they are stuck with them, Soler with the three year deal and Chapman with the opt-in.

[reedonly]

Papa and Copes were discussing the Giants' hitting woes this afternoon and feel they are going to stay the course at this point. Ramos might not be brought up to replace someone like Slater because they think Ramos needs to play every day and get regular ABs to succeed, not with the sporadic usage Slater gets. I'm thinking that Ramos will come up if (and when) the first outfielder goes down with injury.

They also felt Burrell might become the scapegoat. Burrell is Zaidi's choice for hitting coach, not Melvin's. Hard to say as Pavlovic points out:

The final 36 games last year: 14-22, 132 runs, 36 homers, .674 OPS

The first 36 games this year: 15-21, 132 runs, 32 homers, .669 OPS

Melvin says Soler's and Chapman's struggles were not due to lack of effort.  In the case of Chapman, he might be taking his offensive struggles onto the field and now the defense is suffering.  

[pachyderm]

Win wise, They are both awful.

[reedonly]

I suspect Soler was playing injured in April because he sucked worse than expected.

[pachyderm]

meh

meh

meh