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Post by pachyderm on Apr 15, 2024 16:57:13 GMT -5
1-this team has more talent than any Giant team in the last 4 years... Sorry, but that's nuts.
lol.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 15, 2024 21:21:43 GMT -5
I don't Understand how you could disagree with me
I really don't
A lot of guys are struggling right now but as the Saying goes, look at the back of the baseball card And the track record.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 15, 2024 21:22:30 GMT -5
From your comments It seems to me that you're Just looking at how the team is currently playing
We have not played real well I agree
But that does not change the talent level
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 15, 2024 22:11:14 GMT -5
I think we have a good rotation, but our bullpen is lacking and any team that has Wade Jr., Yaz, Conforto, Bailey and Ahmed starting daily is not going to put many runs on the board.
Not to mention it's painfully obvious to see now that Melvin is just a Farhan puppet. I was hoping he had grown a pair, but he is still a spineless joke of a manager. I envy you, Boly. I wish I had hope like you do, but I don't. We have absolute morons calling the shots, it's gonna be a long season.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 16, 2024 8:18:11 GMT -5
Boagie, What puppet strings do you see Being pulled that I Do not?
And if you're going to say that the Lack of bringing up younger players to replace Yaz And some others I disagree with you.
He has always Then the kind of manager that sticks with his veterans and gives them a chance Based upon their track records
I admit I am one of those guys Who would pull the trigger early and make changes
Bob has never been that
I don't particularly like michael conforto on the roster either And I would rather have a better first basement than wade
But all things considered I still say this is the best roster we have had in the last four or five years
All things considered
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Post by reedonly on Apr 16, 2024 9:17:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure if they would have been willing to change too many more players. They already went fairly deep into luxury tax level so they really could not replace Conforto and Wade. This is on FZ and ownership.
Melvin may be a FZ puppet but the radio announcers yesterday made a point that every grounder has been run out so far this season. Whether or not the team is good is one thing but the announcers said that a Bob Melvin team comes ready to play. The only thing that doesn't match up is that the players on Melvin's team last season in San Diego did not seem as if their heads were in the game. With a team with so many all-stars, they really underperformed.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 16, 2024 9:52:15 GMT -5
Boly- Boagie, What puppet strings do you see Being pulled that I Do not?
And if you're going to say that the Lack of bringing up younger players to replace Yaz And some others I disagree with you.
He has always Then the kind of manager that sticks with his veterans and gives them a chance Based upon their track records
I admit I am one of those guys Who would pull the trigger early and make changes
Bob has never been that
Boagie- Bob has always been a puppet. He was definitely a puppet in Oakland, because we know Beane likes to control everything. I think he was also a puppet in San Diego. In Seattle I think he had control, but that was a long time ago and they had a roster full of veterans.
I think Farhan has control because I see roughly the same strategy being used regarding the lineup decisions. Most, if not all baseball-minded folks go with players who seem to be swinging the bat well and moving them to spots in the lineup based on that, Farhan is notorious for not doing that. I see that same strategy being used today. Fitzgerald had a great game last Wednesday, 3 hits, 2 steals, we know he can play all over the diamond so there are opportunities for him to start..he didn't get another start until Sunday, at shortstop. He had 2 hits, and rbi and run...then he didn't start yesterday, he didn't even get in the game at all.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 16, 2024 12:29:23 GMT -5
That Fitz didn't play ticked me off, too.
I WOULD have started playing him in multiple spots because when he's in the line up, EVERYTHING is different.
His speed alone changes the on field dynamics.
What bob is doing with the vets is what managers did for decades. He's giving the vets enough rope to win the job, or hang themselves.
I still don't see him as a marionette, boagie. I just don't.
Now come the end of June and he's still doing the same crap, then I might agree.
But he has to be fair to the vets and give them a lot of time to keep the job or lose it.
It's what I would do.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 16, 2024 14:05:59 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting we shit can all the veterans, although I probably would have after last season. I'm merely suggesting we give the young kids a chance to succeed.
Ahmed didn't join the Giants to be a starter. His role was to backup Luciano. Now he's worked his way into the starting lineup everyday.
Why aren't we giving Fitzgerald more time at shortstop and bring in Ahmed as a defensive replacement late in the game? At least platoon those two. Fitzgerald can also play the outfield, there are enough options to get him in the next game after getting 3 hits.
But that's how Farhan plays it, he wants to win with scrap heap veterans because it bolters his resume. He doesn't want to win a Championship, he wants to be the most cost effective GM. He wants to get the most out of Conforto, Ahmed etc etc..
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 16, 2024 16:57:57 GMT -5
I can't argue about Ahmed or Fitz.
BUT according to Melvin, Ahmed was going to get every chance to win the job.
Luciano struggled the first part of spring and didn't hit.
Ahmed, SOMEHOW, did.
But as I said, HE'S almost an automatic out.
Fitz has been dynamic! he's fast and he has power.
I'm with you on them splitting time.
I don't see that coming from Farhan, but Melvin's bias for a player he had in AZ and liked.
As I also said, Ahmed's arm is iffy.
Strong enough, but NOT accurate enough.
Small sample size, Fitz's arm is STRONGER and much more accurate.
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Post by reedonly on Apr 16, 2024 18:52:16 GMT -5
I would have canned most of the guys who were going through arbitration because they were stuck with the guys under contract like Conforto.
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Post by pachyderm on Apr 17, 2024 5:18:21 GMT -5
From your comments It seems to me that you're Just looking at how the team is currently playing We have not played real well I agree But that does not change the talent level yeah just not seeing it. I hope I'm wrong.
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Post by reedonly on Apr 17, 2024 16:00:02 GMT -5
Previous years, they had players who were not all that talented, most of these would have been AAA players but Zaidi used them for depth in an attempt to raise the floor of the team. Also, there were players like Pederson who could hit but had no clue doing anything else. This year, most have the skill sets.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 17, 2024 16:26:13 GMT -5
Absolutely agree, Reed.
Just because we haven't yet started to hit and play that well, we have the talent to do so.
I believe we will.
Our offense is close...very close.
Soler, right now, is a MASSIVE hole.
He needs to start to hit, because when he does, the hitters around him will get better pitches for fear of having to face HIM and his power.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 19, 2024 9:56:00 GMT -5
Many teams try to use the free agent market to buy Championships, most of the time it fails.
The Mets have tried it year after year, so have the Angels. They have proven time and time again, it's not a winning recipe.
The only time in recent history the Yankees were a dynasty is when they drafted and developed their farm system in the late 90s. Since then they've tried to buy Championships with the deepest pockets and have only been sucessful once.
The Cardinals were successful during the 2000s because of their farm system that developed Pujols, Molina, Carpenter and Wainwright. The same with the Phillies and Howard, Utley, Rollins, Burrell and Hamels...much like the Yankees dynasty, they both acquired some supporting cast players, but the core of their team was from the farm.
We tried using the free agent strategy over and over again during the Bonds years. Bringing in players like Grissom, Durham, Burks, Galarraga, Snow, Sanders, McGee, Nenn, Livan Hernandez etc etc..We had some good teams then, but we failed to play up to our potential, year after year after year. The core of our teams always came from somewhere else.
Then the mid 2000s came around and we changed the strategy. We focused on drafting and developing. All of a sudden we win 3 Championships in a 5 year period.
I'm not saying it's not possible to win a Championship with bought players, but based on the data in recent history, it doesn't seem to be the recipe for success. This is the only data that Farhan and his band of clowns seem to overlook, they focus more on launch angle than they do on how to win, and maintain that level of success.
This is why I'm not sold on this current team of veterans that came from somewhere else. And it angers me that players like Bart are shipped away, and Ramos, Matos and Luciano are rotting away in Sacramento.
What shocks me the most is people from this board seem to have forgotten or ignored or perhaps never even realized everything I've pointed out here. It's not an accident we won 3 Championships, and it's not an accident that we're 9-11 right now.
That said, I think we can turn it around and play better than we have. As I've said, I do like our rotation (because Webb and Harrison are home grown.) Right now that's our strength, also not an accident.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 19, 2024 15:24:42 GMT -5
I haven't forgotten, boagie.
I also haven't forgotten WHO the GM was in those days... and it wasn't a stats moron like Farhan.
To me, THAT'S the biggest difference.
But I don't disagree with you about being able to 'buy' a championship.
As you pointed out, it almost NEVER works.
We won by going out and getting players like Uribe, Huff, Sanchez, Scutaro and some others.
I am sold on this group and will be even more so AFTER things sort themselves out.
And by that I mean the roster.
I just can't see Conforto staying with us all year.
He's average, at BEST on DEF, and he goes into too many PULL HAPPY streaks like he is now.
Given a choice between him and Yaz, I'll take Yaz... but honestly, he should go, too.
To ME, he's the PERFECT example of a player RUINED by Kapler and company with their ridiculous approach to hitting.
It might take him all year, or most of it, to get back to being HIMSELF. They guy we got in the trade, NOT the useless piece of flotsam Kapler turned him into.
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Post by reedonly on Apr 19, 2024 19:28:18 GMT -5
The thing about free agents is that most of them have to have six or more years of major league service. Unless they were promoted to the majors at a young age or enter free agency via international portal, they would be at least 30 years old and on the downside of their careers. It's usually not a good idea to be paying so much for so long, especially for pitchers. To Zaidi's credit, he did not bite on the five to seven year contracts that Boras wanted for his clients. This is the Achilles Heel when teams try to purchase a pennant and why it doesn't work as often as people think.
Only four times in the past 30 years has the team with the highest payroll in baseball won the World Series in the same year: The 1993 Blue Jays, the 1999 and ‘09 New York Yankees, and the 2018 Boston Red Sox.
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Post by reedonly on Apr 19, 2024 19:44:24 GMT -5
I think Rog was the only one who thought it was an accident but assembling a championship is a lot harder than it looks because all those pieces were only good for a few months. Guys like Huff, Scutaro, Ross, Uribe, etc were not very good after their championship runs. Sabean was masterful at getting those good few weeks out of those guys to supplement the core players (Buster, Lincecum, Cain, etc).
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 19, 2024 21:37:53 GMT -5
Boly- We won by going out and getting players like Uribe, Huff, Sanchez, Scutaro and some others.
Boagie- Absolutely, they helped fill in those holes we needed filled. But those players don't get their rings without Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Posey and Pablo. The homegrown guys are what put them on the path for success, the veterans helped, no doubt, but they didn't lead the way.
The difference now is we've filled our team with Uribes and Huffs to the point there's no room left for the Poseys and Sandovals.
There is no reason after last season that Matos should be in AAA. There is no reason Bart was traded away and replaced by a more expensive veteran. There's no reason to keep Luciano and Ramos in AAA.
Guess who gets demoted when Cobb comes back? I'll give you a hint it won't be Blake Snell..it will most likely be Winn who's pitched very well so far. In two years guess who will still be a Giant out of those 3? Probably only Keaton Winn. See the issue here?
As the team is now.. we might win 90 games, we might even win more, but I don't see a Championship team. I saw it in 2010 and 2012...2014 was a little bit of a surprise, but I knew enough of them had been there before.
I've seen a few of these guys in high pressure situations late in the game, and quite honestly they look tense and mentally over-matched. We saw it in Los Angeles, they made no effort to put any fear into the Dodgers, whom they SHOULD be gunning for. I just don't see it, Boly. I wish I did. Maybe it will change, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 20, 2024 11:37:27 GMT -5
I went back and re read my post. It didn't come off as intended, boagi.
What I was trying to say was that we added those players to get us over the hump... NOT that, THAT was the way to build a club.
You NAILED it in saying they looked tense.
I kept trying, but I couldn't put a word to what I was seeing.
As I said, you NAILED it!
As to Matos and Luciano... if Ahmed keeps hitting anywhere close to what he's doing, and playing really solid SS, I don't see Luciano coming up other than for an injury.
Matos is hitting .207. That's not going to get him promoted.
Now I'll be honest, I'd LOVE to dump Conforto and play him... but also honestly, he does NOT deserve to be with the big club right now.
Ramos, now HE DOES deserve to be with the big club.
5 HRs and hitting .348? He's doing everything expected of him and then some.
But I don't think we'll see any of those guys until maybe June...
Barring injury, that is.
If Yaz continues to stink I'm guessing he's the first to go.
And I'll be sad to see that because I TRULY believe Kapler's style of hitting DESTROYED the man.
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Post by pachyderm on Apr 20, 2024 12:29:36 GMT -5
I went back and re read my post. It didn't come off as intended, boagi. What I was trying to say was that we added those players to get us over the hump... NOT that, THAT was the way to build a club. You NAILED it in saying they looked tense. I kept trying, but I couldn't put a word to what I was seeing. As I said, you NAILED it! As to Matos and Luciano... if Ahmed keeps hitting anywhere close to what he's doing, and playing really solid SS, I don't see Luciano coming up other than for an injury. Matos is hitting .207. That's not going to get him promoted. Now I'll be honest, I'd LOVE to dump Conforto and play him... but also honestly, he does NOT deserve to be with the big club right now. Ramos, now HE DOES deserve to be with the big club. 5 HRs and hitting .348? He's doing everything expected of him and then some. But I don't think we'll see any of those guys until maybe June... Barring injury, that is. If Yaz continues to stink I'm guessing he's the first to go. And I'll be sad to see that because I TRULY believe Kapler's style of hitting DESTROYED the man. dang ... yaz... sad but true. RAMOS FTW!! Be nice to see that happen.
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Post by reedonly on Apr 22, 2024 11:09:13 GMT -5
One thing that seems to be encouraging is that in the past seasons, FZ would have had about a half dozen churn transactions by now and we are not seeing these Fairchild, Donovan, Calhoun types but using internal players like Hjelle as needs arise. Ramos really seems to be knocking on the door and I hope he gets first dibs if one of the others go down.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 22, 2024 15:26:59 GMT -5
Or if someone gets traded.
I'd like to see the VERY inconsistent Conforto sent packing.
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Post by pachyderm on Apr 22, 2024 16:59:36 GMT -5
Or if someone gets traded. I'd like to see the VERY inconsistent Conforto sent packing. I'd keep Contorto and ship Wade ... We need a power hitting 1B ... Let other folks have a shot.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 23, 2024 15:14:27 GMT -5
Or if someone gets traded. I'd like to see the VERY inconsistent Conforto sent packing. I'd keep Contorto and ship Wade ... We need a power hitting 1B ... Let other folks have a shot. You are as prejudiced against Wade as I am for Ahmed.
Although I will admit, I'm close to changing my mind on Nick. He's earned my respect lately.
IF allowed to play every day I contend he'd hit 20-22 HRs.
He still may do so playing only against RHP.
He can play the outfield at an above average level.
He has an historic OBP, and hits for a higher average than Conforto.
Wade can play all 3 outfield spots, though not so well in CF, but he CAN play out there.
Conforto is a corner outfielder, and an average one at that.
All Mikey has on Lamont is power.
I'll take the OBP, versatility and 5 or so less homeruns.
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Post by pachyderm on Apr 24, 2024 4:13:24 GMT -5
I'd keep Contorto and ship Wade ... We need a power hitting 1B ... Let other folks have a shot. You are as prejudiced against Wade as I am for Ahmed.
Although I will admit, I'm close to changing my mind on Nick. He's earned my respect lately.
IF allowed to play every day I contend he'd hit 20-22 HRs.
He still may do so playing only against RHP.
He can play the outfield at an above average level.
He has an historic OBP, and hits for a higher average than Conforto.
Wade can play all 3 outfield spots, though not so well in CF, but he CAN play out there.
Conforto is a corner outfielder, and an average one at that.
All Mikey has on Lamont is power.
I'll take the OBP, versatility and 5 or so less homeruns.And if I'm honest Wade hitting for average is going to endear him to me pretty quickly... soooo... .357 7rbi 1 hr I'd love to see those last two stats go up though...
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 24, 2024 8:30:27 GMT -5
I didn't mean to imply that.I didn't like michael conforto, Because his power is a big upside
I just find it very inconsistent at the plate
Now maybe he will return to the form.He had an earlier in his career, And if he does I will change my mind
I was implying but did not say, But should have said, I'd rather give ramos a shot or Matos.
But if he keeps performing as he has so far , those guys are not gonna get called up
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Post by reedonly on Apr 24, 2024 9:59:17 GMT -5
They will get called up sooner or later. All it will take is a pulled hamstring or oblique and this group excels at getting those, unless it was Kapler who was the problem. Yaz, Soler, and Slater are really injury prone and its just a matter of when.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 24, 2024 10:29:07 GMT -5
I know they will... but honestly, outside of Slater, there's no place for any of them to play.
Right now.
I'm waiting, as you said, for that muscle pull or whatever.
Most likely, as you said, will be Yaz or Conforto.
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Post by reedonly on Apr 24, 2024 20:49:25 GMT -5
Soler lives on the IL
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