JD & Wilmer

[klaiggeb]

Both JD and Wilmer should be singing along with Paul Simon..."I can see the writing on the wall..." Kodachrome, 1973.

There is now clearly no room for both.

This move better work because if it doesn't, it will just be another in a growing list of dumb stupid moves Farhan has made.

I also find it disrespectful to Wilmer.

It's one thing to acquire players to improve your team, but another to add to a position that was already a surplus.

And I'll again beat that dead horse; This move blocks or delays the ascension of a young player. Again.

If that idiot thinks this team can compete for a World Series slot WITHOUT adding more front line pitching, he's even dumber than I thought he was.

And if he's stupid enough to make this play, might as well go out and sign Snell to the same type of "opt out after a couple of years" contract he made with Rodon.

Sheesh.

As Mrs. Gump said: "Stupid is as stupid does."

[reedonly]

The numbers game is that most teams carry thirteen pitchers and 13 position players. With the DH, this means three reserves and a backup catcher. The three reserves are Flores, backup outfielder, and backup infielder. Flores was the best hitter last year so they need to keep him. I would keep Matos and IL Slater. The last spot would be for Fitz or Schmitt. With only three reserve spots, that is probably why Zaidi could not promise Crawford anything but he could have said it better or maybe make a counter offer as an infield coach or something. Also, the numbers don't make it look good for Bart and he will have to blow Murphy out of the water.

[klaiggeb]

I think the reason they might keep Slater is that he's so good off the bench.

Add to that his speed and that he can play all the OF spots.

A couple of years back he was even working at a few inf positions.

But then we look at his injury history. NOT GOOD, and THAT might be reason to move him and use Flores as the top PH.

I really hope Fitz wins a spot. He can fly, he has power and he can play SS and the outfield spots.

Slater can't do that.

I keep thinking that MAYBE the acquisition of Chapman means they 'THINK' he'll take his option and split at the end of the season, thus opening a sport of Schmitt.

[reedonly]

JD Davis said no one from the front office reached out to him when they were acquiring Chapman. This happened last year with Crawford when they signed Correa but given the way the front office operates, this is par for the course.

[reedonly]

Mar 2, 2024 12:35:32 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

I think the reason they might keep Slater is that he's so good off the bench.

Add to that his speed and that he can play all the OF spots.

A couple of years back he was even working at a few inf positions.

But then we look at his injury history. NOT GOOD, and THAT might be reason to move him and use Flores as the top PH.

I really hope Fitz wins a spot. He can fly, he has power and he can play SS and the outfield spots.

Slater can't do that.

I keep thinking that MAYBE the acquisition of Chapman means they 'THINK' he'll take his option and split at the end of the season, thus opening a sport of Schmitt.

The injury histories of Slater, Yaz, and Conforto would lead us to think that one of them will start out on the IL and as it is, Slater will not be fully ready to go by opening day.  Matos is raking so he seems to have earned his spot.  

I realize this is probably why they would prefer Fitzgerald over Crawford is because Fitzgerald has more experience in the outfield so there's more flexibility.  That being said, I'm not happy with the way the managment communicates with the players and Crawford praised the initial GM group (Sabean, etc) in his exit tweet which damns the current regime by omission. 

[reedonly]

Klopfer on Mccovey Chronicles feels that a JD Davis trade is not as certain as it may seem. He said that a case could be made for moving Wade instead of Davis because Davis is more versatile while Wade is limited to being a left handed hitting first baseman or outfielder who gets exposed when he faces a left handed pitcher. Davis is more redundant but does not have platoon imbalance.  Both got into terrible slumps last season but JD's seemed worse. 

[reedonly]

Boly: I keep thinking that MAYBE the acquisition of Chapman means they 'THINK' he'll take his option and split at the end of the season, thus opening a sport of Schmitt.

I think both sides view this as a one year deal because Chapman feels the injury might have caused the poor showing in 2023 and he is hoping for a big year to get a big long term deal.

[klaiggeb]

Mar 5, 2024 10:25:13 GMT -5 reedonly said:

Klopfer on Mccovey Chronicles feels that a JD Davis trade is not as certain as it may seem. He said that a case could be made for moving Wade instead of Davis because Davis is more versatile while Wade is limited to being a left handed hitting first baseman or outfielder who gets exposed when he faces a left handed pitcher. Davis is more redundant but does not have platoon imbalance.  Both got into terrible slumps last season but JD's seemed worse. 

I'll take Wade 100 times out of a hundred over Davis.

Wade CAN play a decent outfield. JD cannot. He lacks the foot speed.

Then there's the issue of OBP.

Wade wins again

But the Giants are short on RH power and that may mean they keep him.

I'll leave it to farhan to screw it up.

[reedonly]

I think whoever they deal depends on what they can get in return. If they can get a pitcher, that may swing the deal one way or the other.

[klaiggeb]

With Hjelle going down... just another to a growing list, I would NOT be surprised for us to go out soon and get Snell or Monty

[reedonly]

Chronicle just ran an article that Zaidi tends to be stubborn for the sake of being stubborn, especially when he does not want to give long term contracts to pitchers.  

www.sfgate.com/giants/article/dave-tobener-farhan-zaidi-stubbornness-disaster-18696486.php


Maybe he does have a point because Rodon seems to have not regained his velocity after last season's injury. 

[klaiggeb]

Sure sounds that way, Reed.

For me, every single day with nothing done, as he's done nothing for the last bunch of years, is just one more nail in his coffin.

I hope Buster steps up soon and says something. It is time, as my dad used to say, to "S_ _ _ t or get off the pot."

[Islandboagie]

This is the year for that, Boly. If the Giants aren't competitive, you'll most likely see Farhan gone before the end of the season.

[reedonly]

With payroll over $200 million, they are aiming higher than “let’s see how long we can be competitive”.

[klaiggeb]

Mar 7, 2024 23:46:33 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

This is the year for that, Boly. If the Giants aren't competitive, you'll most likely see Farhan gone before the end of the season.

Which puts me, and maybe other Giant fans, in a quandary.

Do we root for our guys to win... but end up keeping this putz...

Or root for them struggle so the putz gets the boot and we MAYBE have a chance at a better future?

[reedonly]

The next man up would probably be Pete Putila, who was credited with helping to build the Astros into a perennial contender by focusing on the farm system. The farm system is one thing that has improved in the last few years. Its not at the top but it used to be bottom five.

[reedonly]

I was reading an article on the Athletic this morning about pitching injuries. Injuries are getting more frequent because of increased emphasis on velocity and gripping the ball harder. So, the modern GM is just thinking about the short term high velocity and less about lasting the full season. The article mentioned Johnny Sain who wanted pitchers to grip the ball like they would an egg but now pitchers grip tightly to get the increased in spin. As a result, the breaking ball is now thrown at a velocity that used to be fastball velocity. Now the elbow reconstruction is normalized. Ten years ago, the number of pitchers in the draft in the first ten rounds that has reconstruction was six, latest draft had 24. This means that elbow breakdowns are happening earlier and the repairs are not lasting as long. Giolito is now hurt, Gausman and Senga are having shoulder issues. Gausman has some sort of shoulder fatigue and might make it back for opening day but it is iffy at the moment.   The doctor (Meister) seems to think that the use of the sweeper has been putting strain on the inner elbow but I'm not sure how exactly.  Meister is the doctor who performed deGrom's hydrid brace surgery and the same technique was used for Brock Purdy.

I'm not in a huge rush for them to get Snell or Montgomery if they feel there is an injury risk.  Boras is angling for long term contracts for these two so and Montgomery is preferable because he did not reject the qualifying offer and signing Snell would cost the Giants and additional pick and more international bonus pool money.   In either case, I'm not sure how much value they would have after the second year so they would have to consider anything past the second year as very possible sunk cost. 

[reedonly]

Mar 6, 2024 10:32:48 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

With Hjelle going down... just another to a growing list, I would NOT be surprised for us to go out soon and get Snell or Monty

Nobody has said anything about Hjelle but I think it is serious.  They won't even re-evaluate for a couple of weeks and best case scenario is he comes back but is three weeks behind.  

[klaiggeb]

Mar 8, 2024 11:12:11 GMT -5 reedonly said:

I was reading an article on the Athletic this morning about pitching injuries. Injuries are getting more frequent because of increased emphasis on velocity and gripping the ball harder. So, the modern GM is just thinking about the short term high velocity and less about lasting the full season. The article mentioned Johnny Sain who wanted pitchers to grip the ball like they would an egg but now pitchers grip tightly to get the increased in spin. As a result, the breaking ball is now thrown at a velocity that used to be fastball velocity. Now the elbow reconstruction is normalized. Ten years ago, the number of pitchers in the draft in the first ten rounds that has reconstruction was six, latest draft had 24. This means that elbow breakdowns are happening earlier and the repairs are not lasting as long. Giolito is now hurt, Gausman and Senga are having shoulder issues. Gausman has some sort of shoulder fatigue and might make it back for opening day but it is iffy at the moment.   The doctor (Meister) seems to think that the use of the sweeper has been putting strain on the inner elbow but I'm not sure how exactly.  Meister is the doctor who performed deGrom's hydrid brace surgery and the same technique was used for Brock Purdy.

I'm not in a huge rush for them to get Snell or Montgomery if they feel there is an injury risk.  Boras is angling for long term contracts for these two so and Montgomery is preferable because he did not reject the qualifying offer and signing Snell would cost the Giants and additional pick and more international bonus pool money.   In either case, I'm not sure how much value they would have after the second year so they would have to consider anything past the second year as very possible sunk cost. 

When I played in the 1960's and 1970's what Johnny Sain said was exactly what we were taught; egg shell grip so the ball snaps out of your fingers and wrist for more movement.

Before I retired from coaching in 1994, high school kids were often GETTING surgery to avoid problems later.

Huh?

But's that's what doctors and coaches had them doing.

[reedonly]

About ten years ago, the Tommy John surgery became an urban legend-level claim that it would increase velocity. That is only partially true. It would increase velocity if the elbow is damaged and I guess there's more damage because kids are throuing harder and year round without a few months' rest. The UCL surgery should only be performed as necessary and should not be looked at as a performance enhancement. I guess some tiger moms and dads and coaches think its going to add 5mph but that's not the way the human body works.

Bad all around. The game has become a speed game with pitchers throwing as hard as they can for as long as they can and not pacing themselves for the CG anymore. The modern GMs are milking the early part of the pitchers' career and think most have seen their best days past once they've hit 30. I've heard that Boras was asking for a seven year contract for Montgomery and possibly Snell and I think anything over three years is probably not a good idea.

[klaiggeb]

Agree.

And especially, As you continue to point out, How quickly hurler's go down with injuries three years... Four years at the most it's a good Target

[reedonly]

Red Sox turned down Montgomery when Boras was asking for a seven year deal. No way he gets seven and I think four should be the absolute max. He could potentially be Zito for five years out of seven.

[klaiggeb]

7? For that guy?

He's freaking nuts!

[reedonly]

Zaidi stalling is actually the correct move if Boras is trying to get seven years for Montgomery. Boras is way out of line because pitchers aren't going to last more than three to four years and Snell and Montgomery are not going to be ready for opening day if they hold out much longer.

[klaiggeb]

I don't disagre

I think scott was nuts asking for that much money

[pachyderm]

I'd like to see them both gone.

[reedonly]

"I was shocked to hear he hadn't heard a whole lot recently," Crawford said. "He's kind of in the same situation I was. Our thinking is we've had a great career, if nothing comes up then that makes sense and we call it and pretty happy and proud about what we did in our career, but his kids wanted him to play, so he's motivated to still go out there and play for them and I think he is looking for a job. I would love to see him keep playing, personally."
Crawford admitted the lack of interest in players of his and Belt's caliber this offseason is "weird" given the intangible leadership qualities players like Belt possess.

"Yeah, something's happening," Crawford added. "I don't know what the thought is there with teams and front offices that aren't signing some of these veteran guys that not only have the knowledge of how to play the game the right way and winning and bringing all that kind of stuff to a clubhouse, but also can still play baseball really well. So I don't know what the thought process is there, this offseason is especially weird when you look at some of the guys that are available, Belt being one of them. [Blake] Snell, [Jordan] Montgomery, these guys still aren't signed and that's weird to me."


Seems like Crawford was hinting at some sort of collusion when he was discussing Brandon Belt's free agency during a Foul Territory podcast.  

[klaiggeb]

Hmmm. I never thought of that, Reed.

My initial thoughts were that his injury history and his lack of wheels of any kind might be the reason.

That and his age.

He can still pick 'em, though.

And in a platoon, he'd be a smart pick up.

[reedonly]

I don't think there's collusion but I think GMs would tend to think more alike because they are using the same sets of data. I feel Belt is a stronger player than Wade but over the course of a 162 game season, its not as clear cut because Belt's knees have a lot of wear and tear on them and he's usually a lock to spend significant time on the IL for one reason or another. Belt got $9 million last season which is about $5.5 million more than what Wade would make in 2024 and signing Belt would negate the CBT savings they got for waiving JD. With the CBT space at about $29 million, that might be enough to land a frontline pitcher but its going to be close and I'm not sure how close they want to get to the threshold. Cots estimate is just an estimate and cannot account for midseason injuries and midseason transactions which would tend to push payroll higher unless the Giants make corresponding salary dumps along the way.