What to do, What to do...

[klaiggeb]

We have Hanniger and Conforto returning. And only one can be the DH.

Both of them in OUR ballpark suddenly become below average defenders.

Is there any chance we can trade one?

I mean, does either have a no trade clause

If I had MY choice, I'd move Conforto.

Yes, I know Mitch's recent history, but he's a better power bat and, IMHO, a better hitter for average than Conforto.

If we are serious about a rebuild, and based upon the Padres and other teams, you just CAN'T buy a winner.

Mix in players, yes, but you really can't buy one.

Then again, here I go, expecting Farhan to learn from any recent history.

[reedonly]

I would even go the DFA route for Conforto

[klaiggeb]

That sounds like a counterproductive move. Even if we moved him for a six pack and a pepperoni pizza, at least we get something back for him. And I'm betting that some team is willing to take a chance on him.

[reedonly]

Doesn’t matter what I think. FZ feels Conforto’s poor season was due to rehabbing the injury and he says he should be back to his regular production in 23. I think what we saw in 2022 is his new normal.

[klaiggeb]

Actually, I understand his logic. And it is that very same logic that makes me want to move him. Or if not him then mitch. Both of them are more qualified to be a designated hitter than a regular outfielder, but I'm betting we see him in the Outfield this year. I hope it's in left field, not in right field, this is too much to cover out there and he is absolutely incapable of getting the job done at even an average level in right field. At least that's my opinion

[reedonly]

Today they announced signing of Yaz and Slater. I guess they want as many injury prone guys as possible. Also non tendered Cruz, Waites, and Szapucki

[klaiggeb]

I saw that, and I clearly do not understand why. I really don't. FZ is repeating the same mistakes he made before, bringing back guys that won't help and we'll just get hurt

[reedonly]

Nov 18, 2023 23:45:39 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

I saw that, and I clearly do not understand why. I really don't. FZ is repeating the same mistakes he made isybefore, bringing back guys that won't help and we'll just get hurt

I saw the non tender list and it has FZ written all over it.   Tellez and Woodruff?

[Islandboagie]

I'm going to reserve my anger until Spring training starts because I'd rather have Yaz and Slater than Conforto and Haniger.

My hope is that they release Conforto and Haniger or trade them to teams that need an extra outfielder. I believe the market has created opportunities for trades this offseason.

What I'm more focused on is the pitching staff.

I'd like to see Desclafani and Stripling gone, trade or release them. Probably not going to happen, but I am still holding out hope. Otherwise, just use them as inning eaters. Beck and Winn should be starting over either of them.

[reedonly]

Agree. However, the guys with the biggest contracts tend to take precedence unless they are physically incapable (LaStella). My philosophy is like buying steak knives. It’s cheaper to spend more initially to buy a good set that won’t break down than to spring for multiple budget sets that break down on you. And if you go cheap, go with the kids instead of shopping at Woolworth for Stripling or Wood. This is why budget stores like Ross or Dollar General are successful. Their stuff is cheap but wears out immediately and have to be bought again and again.

I’ve read where the top six Giants earners took up $90 million salary but Taylor Roger’s was the only one who was healthy and did his job.

[Islandboagie]

The problem is, the Giants bought their steak knives at a garage sale above retail price. Some were rusty, some had their tips broken off, but they've been trying to convince their dinner guests (us fans) that the knives are really good and they should trust them. Throughout dinner (last season) the knives performed just as the dinner guests thought they would, very poorly.

[reedonly]

Nov 19, 2023 14:41:15 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

The problem is, the Giants bought their steak knives at a garage sale above retail price. Some were rusty, some had their tips broken off, but they've been trying to convince their dinner guests (us fans) that the knives are really good and they should trust them. Throughout dinner (last season) the knives performed just as the dinner guests thought they would, very poorly.

They should have known better than to sell their soul to Boras.

The Giants did their Greinke rebound. When spurned by the initial target, they overpay to get lesser or flawed ones and hope the fans would understand.

[klaiggeb]

I have said for going on 15 years now, we should never sign a player for whom Boras is the agent!

I would rather have a player who was one step down in quality, then take on a player whose agent will take advantage of us just because he can do so. I think Scott is a scumbag of the highest quality

[reedonly]

Nov 19, 2023 15:30:38 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

I have said for going on 15 years now, we should never sign a player for whom Boras is the agent!

I would rather have a player who was one step down in quality, then take on a player whose agent will take advantage of us just because he can do so. I think Scott is a scumbag of the highest quality

So they have to be careful about going after Bellinger, Soto, and Manaea, all Boras clients.   The Conforto deal was payback for welching on the Correa deal, in my opinion. 

[reedonly]

Nov 19, 2023 14:41:15 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

The problem is, the Giants bought their steak knives at a garage sale above retail price. Some were rusty, some had their tips broken off, but they've been trying to convince their dinner guests (us fans) that the knives are really good and they should trust them. Throughout dinner (last season) the knives performed just as the dinner guests thought they would, very poorly.

I think they underestimate the intelligence of the average fan.  They think they can skate by on three in five or the Oracle Park experience but the average fan in more discerning these days.  I was at a party a few months ago and my 15 year old niece was complaining about Farhan and his inability to make a deadline trade (I did not prompt that response in any way).  My niece is not a hardcore fan and I would consider her a casual fan but she is aware that FZ is not as smart as he thinks he is.  Among my social circle, no one cares for FZ or Kapler and I would consider most of them casual fans so they cannot do the bait and switch of Conforto instead of Judge and Correa any more.    I know that FZ has a tendency to GM-speak with intent to be non-committal at best or to mislead but with so much information available to the average fan, he is less able to get away with what he used to.  I think part of the function of analytics is in part to confuse people by using more esoteric things like launch angle and exit velocity to justify what they do but Joe Fan knows that .240 hitter is not very good.  IF FZ is hoping for a bounceback season from Conforto, its looking more like his good seasons are the outliers. and he's probably either mistaken or trying to give excuses in advance for this coming offseason.  

This is the same kind of stuff Bill James used to write about which I did not care for.  Back in the day, he was making a case for Darrell Evans to be in the hall of fame because he had a high OBA, and got his high OBA from a lot of walks, despite a .248 lifetime batting average.  To me, a guy does not get into the HOF due to walks and if he gets in with 414 HRs, then they have to let in Delgado, Encarnacion and Konerko who don't really belong, either.  I find this kind of thinking insulting that a guy like Bill James can write that kind of crap and pass it off as something intelligent that he feels worthy of putting into a book. 

[reedonly]

Nov 19, 2023 12:25:50 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

I'm going to reserve my anger until Spring training starts because I'd rather have Yaz and Slater than Conforto and Haniger.

My hope is that they release Conforto and Haniger or trade them to teams that need an extra outfielder. I believe the market has created opportunities for trades this offseason.

What I'm more focused on is the pitching staff.

I'd like to see Desclafani and Stripling gone, trade or release them. Probably not going to happen, but I am still holding out hope. Otherwise, just use them as inning eaters. Beck and Winn should be starting over either of them.

If they sign Bellinger, they will likely trade one of Yaz, Slater, Conforto, or Haniger.  Haniger's contract makes him difficult to move.  Yaz would have the most trade value but the one of the four I would least like to trade. If they were to find a taker for Conforto, they would have to attach a prospect to the trade to get anything decent back.  Even though they signed all those outfielders, there is a crunch on the 26 man roster.  DeSclafani probably will not be released before the rule V draft but if he is unable to go in spring training, he would go on the 60 day IL to get him off of the 40 man roster or get released like they did with laStella. 

[klaiggeb]

I don't think that a trade of Conforto demands we get a really good, even above average player back.

Me?

I think moving him is of utmost importance because of what it opens up.

We were foolish to sign him in the first place, so even if we got draft picks or minor leaguers, I see it as a win.

[reedonly]

The roster spot is more valuable than Conforto is and possible salary relief but I suspect Conforto is sunk cost.