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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 13, 2023 19:43:34 GMT -5
If you are not thinking this, you should be. I'll make it simple, Kyle Harrison is not ready to pitch in the major leagues.
Everybody keeps talking about how good is fastball is, but if you can't locate it it doesn't make a difference as he has discovered.
He's throwing gopher balls at an alarming rate, and it's Stripling is ready, Harrison should be back pitching and AAA working on things. In the middle of a pennant race is not the time to be working on things for a rookie.
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 13, 2023 22:05:00 GMT -5
Harrison is fine, he just needs to keep the fastball down in the zone more.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 14, 2023 8:30:12 GMT -5
I couldn't disagree with you more.
I am arguing that he's not fine. That he has no command of the strike zone.
If this was any other of our hurlers giving up home runs at this pace, they would long ago have been sent down.
I like the kid a lot! But his breaking stuff rolls up there it doesn't snap, he rarely uses the changeup, which is understandable, and he struggles to locate within the strike zone.
Be honest, if any other of our AAA hurlers had back-to-back performances like this? They would not be with the big Club anymore they'd be back down with sacramento.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 14, 2023 8:43:54 GMT -5
This is part of the learning curve when it comes to rookies. He only allowed one walk yesterday. He hung in there despite the homer and Schmitt error. I think it is good experience for him to be in a pennant race and to learn how to maintain composure when things do not go his way.
This reminds me of a game that happened about 13 years ago when the 21 year old rookie pitcher gave up 8 runs (3 homers) and got knocked out of game before the third inning was done. This game put them 6.5 games behind the leaders and it looked as if they were finished. That rookie did not look good on that day but later that year, he won a World Series game. He added 3 more World Series wins and one save in his career.
I'm not saying that Kyle Harrison is going to have as good of a career as Madison Bumgarner but I would rather see Harrison pitch than any alternative. Harrison stabilizes the rotation and he should not be sent back to AAA. He is at the point where he needs to learn the game at the big league level and I don't think sending him back to AAA would help him. Stripling may or may not be a better alternative at this point and if Harrison gets sent back to AAA, the likely alternative is to use an opener.
FZ pretty much waved the white flag at the trade deadline, so we need to re-adjust our own expectations. It is more important to me that players like Bailey, Schmitt, Harrison, Matos, etc. get the experience and get better than to be one and done for the playoffs. If the playoffs ended today, 6th seed plays the Brewers on the road, 5th seed would play the Phillies on the road (winner plays Atlanta). They are not talented enough to go deep into October. Better to have the youngsters develop themselves into becoming cornerstone pieces for the future.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 14, 2023 19:44:59 GMT -5
I certainly do not disagree with you. I was the one who pointed out multiple times about the huge learning curve that was going to take place for all of our rookies.
But my point about Kyle Harrison is this; if this was any other curler called up from AAA giving up the home runs at the alarming rate at which he's giving them up, he would not be with the club. He would be sent back to AAA.
I really like Kyle harrison, and I think he has a huge future with us. But that said his breaking ball is lazy and slow, rarely snaps like good breaking balls snap, and he definitely needs an offspeed pitch. Like a changeup.
No I realize the change UPS are Works in progress. And Kyle is certainly working on his. I am only saying that with the big Club, and him getting pounded like he is is not the best way for him to learn it, and is likely to really Hammer at his self-confidence.
Don't want to see that. I don't want to see another Solomon Torres, who was brought up too early, got hammered, and suffered a huge confidence loss, and never really developed like he might have.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 14, 2023 20:20:18 GMT -5
My understanding from what Krukow said last week is that Harrison is up to stay and he has the benefit of having the rest of the Giants' pitching staff work with him for one on one tutoring sessions to help with things like grips. I don't think its a Solomon Torres situation.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 14, 2023 20:48:48 GMT -5
I really hope you are right, because I don't want to see a very promising kid destroyed. And who knows, he could turn things around and make me eat my words! And that would be just fine!
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Post by reedonly on Sept 14, 2023 21:10:45 GMT -5
Boly: I certainly do not disagree with you. I was the one who pointed out multiple times about the huge learning curve that was going to take place for all of our rookies.
The hardest thing for an organization is to do a rebuild and contend at the same time. It is good to give the youngsters September experience this season and see how far they can go for as long as they can. What is good about this group is that most of these guys seem to be fairly bright so I expect less rookie mistakes as they progress.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 15, 2023 7:48:22 GMT -5
Sure hope it works out, because this kid could be a big star, our biggest on the mound since bum
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Post by reedonly on Sept 15, 2023 17:17:23 GMT -5
Sure hope it works out, because this kid could be a big star, our biggest on the mound since bum So, Hjelle gets sent down every time he gets hammered and we are still waiting for him to make necessary improvements which may or may not happen. I would keep Harrison on the big club to get as many tidbits as possible instead of going down to PCL hitters' paradises and ABS. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 15, 2023 20:03:47 GMT -5
I don't understand pitchers like Hjelle.
He's a big kid, I get that, and because of that, mechanical tweeks are hard.
It took Randy Johnson a number of years before he figured mechanics out.
From 1989 to 1992 they were wondering if he'd EVER be the guy they thought he could be.
I'm not saying Hjelle will be the same, but he should have been able to make some adjustments by now.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 15, 2023 20:29:42 GMT -5
Those guys optioned Harrison and Schmitt to get Stripling and Conforto on board. Not too swift.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 15, 2023 22:13:24 GMT -5
Personally, irregardless of how crappy Mike conforto look tonight, I thought they were solid moves. Sorry to disagree with you guys
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 16, 2023 20:20:35 GMT -5
No need to be sorry about disagreeing, Boly. I just don't understand why you'd prefer seeing Stripling starting over Harrison. Ignore the future considerations, right now Harrison is already better than Stripling and half our other pitchers. I would understand if Stripling were a savvy veteran who would give us a better shot at making the post-season, but he's not. He should have been released months ago, and I thought you had said that as well.
I also thought you didn't like bullpen games, but with Harrison gone it means more bullpen games, starting tonight.
I personally thought Harrison was doing fine. His strikeout rate was very good, and he was keeping his walks down.. Yes he was going through a few growing pains with homerun balls, but it's better for that to happen now rather than later.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 16, 2023 21:24:48 GMT -5
Stripling has 2024 option so they cannot DFA him without eating $12.5 million. I would have dumped Wood. Stripling is not much better than Harrison at this point but now you start to see the return of the bullpen game
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 16, 2023 22:45:56 GMT -5
No need to be sorry about disagreeing, Boly. I just don't understand why you'd prefer seeing Stripling starting over Harrison. Ignore the future considerations, right now Harrison is already better than Stripling and half our other pitchers. I would understand if Stripling were a savvy veteran who would give us a better shot at making the post-season, but he's not. He should have been released months ago, and I thought you had said that as well. I also thought you didn't like bullpen games, but with Harrison gone it means more bullpen games, starting tonight. I personally thought Harrison was doing fine. His strikeout rate was very good, and he was keeping his walks down.. Yes he was going through a few growing pains with homerun balls, but it's better for that to happen now rather than later. Harrison is struggling with command issues, and giving up home runs an alarming rate. I would rather him continue to learn how to command the strike zone in Sacramento then they get clobbered up with big Club. As I posted in another thread, I don't want to see the kids confidence blown up like we did to Solomon Torres many years ago. The Harrison might be tougher mentally, but to go through what he's going through.. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 16, 2023 22:46:33 GMT -5
Stripling has 2024 option so they cannot DFA him without eating $12.5 million. I would have dumped Wood. Stripling is not much better than Harrison at this point but now you start to see the return of the bullpen game Dropping wood is what I said over a week ago. But I think he saved his job with that relief appearance the other day. |
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 16, 2023 23:41:53 GMT -5
Reed- Stripling has 2024 option so they cannot DFA him without eating $12.5 million. I would have dumped Wood. Stripling is not much better than Harrison at this point but now you start to see the return of the bullpen game
Boagie- Stripling sucks over and over again, then bitches when he's not being given more starting opportunities. I'd rather pay him to leave than pay him to stay.
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 16, 2023 23:49:31 GMT -5
Boly- Dropping wood is what I said over a week ago. But I think he saved his job with that relief appearance the other day.
Boagie- They both suck and complain non-stop. They're both arguably the two worst pitchers in baseball, they're getting paid WAY more than they're worth...yet they think they have some leverage to complain?? They BOTH need to be gone immediately. I'm shocked you would support either one of these guys, let alone both.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 17, 2023 1:11:47 GMT -5
Reed- Stripling has 2024 option so they cannot DFA him without eating $12.5 million. I would have dumped Wood. Stripling is not much better than Harrison at this point but now you start to see the return of the bullpen game Boagie- Stripling sucks over and over again, then bitches when he's not being given more starting opportunities. I'd rather pay him to leave than pay him to stay. I know you would want them gone and I would also. They generally don’t fire anyone or DFA a player unless he’s as useless as laStella. Unless the player is totally unsalvageable, they are usually kept. |
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Post by reedonly on Sept 17, 2023 14:22:00 GMT -5
They are now at about 10% chance for playoffs, need to pass three teams in thirteen games. They need to stop the charade.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 17, 2023 14:51:28 GMT -5
Stripling has 2024 option so they cannot DFA him without eating $12.5 million. I would have dumped Wood. Stripling is not much better than Harrison at this point but now you start to see the return of the bullpen game Dropping wood is what I said over a week ago. But I think he saved his job with that relief appearance the other day. The last pitchers' spot is not necessarily the guy who has been the worst all year. Also, I think they feel Stripling and Manaea are somewhat salvageable and they cannot be cut right now without them eating the 2024 contracts. That is the problem with the player option contracts which are lose-lose-lose situations. They opt out if they do well (Rodon). They opt in if they do poorly (Stripling) because they know they can't get the 2024 money if they test the open market. Also, you cannot trade them because of the injury risk. If they get hurt, they automatically opt in (Rodon). Wood does not have a 2024 option that's why I felt he was the guy on the bubble, not Stripling. Now you know why Scott Boras pushed so hard to get Conforto signed to that player option contract. FZ needs to be a lot more careful in the future about the kinds of players he offers these player option contracts to. If it were purely a baseball move, I would have no problem cutting Stripling, Manaea, etc but the current regime is paying attention to the economics so that's why they don't simply cut those guys. Furthermore, it would look bad if they cut Stripling and he gets signed by the Dodgers for the minimum and the Giants are still paying for him. I would love to be rid of all the dead wood but I am realistic enough to realize things don't go the way I would like. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 18, 2023 8:23:27 GMT -5
Reed, that was a very well-written piece!
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Post by reedonly on Sept 18, 2023 8:35:54 GMT -5
It was much simpler in the old days but now with so many people involved such as unions, agents, owners, GMS, and so forth, you can't go around firing everyone you don't like. Even in the real world, because of unions, lawsuits, and so forth, to fire someone requires going through a lot of hoops and every thing has to be documented with warnings, coach and counsel, verbal, writtens. Nowadays, the only surefire ways to termination without appeals are to get caught doing something criminal, hurting someone else, theft, or walking off the shift. Thus, a pitcher with a 5.00 ERA and $12.5 million contract guarenteed will not be the one on the bubble if he can lift his arm.
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