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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 4, 2023 11:11:52 GMT -5
Except for Conforto, the team is now at full strength... which doesn't mean everyone is ready to hit.
Hanniger and Yaz and Crawford STILL have to re find their swings.
But in the next 25 games, that SHOULD happen.
So here's my question:
In 6 to 8 more games, which is MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME to find those swings... and this team STILL CAN'T SCORE and falls short of the playoffs, will anyone be held accountable?
On most teams, such failure would fall squarely into the lap of the manager... and likely he'd be shown the door.
Now I admit up front I'm biased. I think GK is a very, very poor manager who, but WHO HE IS, puts a wedge between him and his players.
Will he be held accountable and shown the door?
I'm betting, no. Because to dump him would be Farhan admitting he screwed up in his choice of leader.
Being a A-Hole is okay for a manager IF they players buy into not just what he wants, but WHO HE IS.
The players LOVED Boch.
They Loved Dusty.
Felipe?
Nope. He just couldn't relate. There was something about him that didn't create chemistry.
So I ask again: Will GK be held accountable for failure to not just score runs but to make the playoffs.
NOW, having said all that, the most blame falls on the players themselves.
In particular, Davis, Pederson, Wade and Conforto.
THEY ARE THE VETERANS.
As Kruk and Kuip CONTINUE TO POINT OUT, THEY are the ones who must lead the way.
But they haven't, and aren't.
But since no team fires all of the players, the blame falls upon the manager.
And I think it's time for Farhan to admit he picked the wrong guy; That the players DON'T relate to his woke nonsense; That the players AREN'T buying his rhetorical nonsense.
Just my thoughts.
And as I said, I'm biased.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 4, 2023 14:12:15 GMT -5
Giants seldom fire anyone unless it’s a total meltdown. I despise GK and everything he stands for.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 4, 2023 14:22:47 GMT -5
Based upon our record a month and a half ago, I think you could argue that this was and continues to be a total meltdown.
I'm curious, has anyone on the board heard opinions from fans about GK? I know nobody an hour announcing Booth is going to say a bad word, because they can't, or likely they'd be fired. What's the media been saying?
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Post by holiday613 on Sept 4, 2023 18:02:03 GMT -5
The fault lies squarely at the feet of Farhan.He decided to sign players who cant hit, he decided to pick up everyone elses trash, thinking he knows better and he was the one yanking more suitable younger players (Matos / Ramos) in place of the shit FA he signed over the winter instead of cutting them loose..Joc sux and never should have been offered the QO..Stripling/Mannea are major disappointments,Haniger is a strike out machine and Yaz/Conforto pull a hammy every time they run to first..Ive never ever seen a team squeeze their collective butts harder with RISP than these losers..GK is also responsible and should be canned too..Nobody besides the over rated Flores instills fear in opposing pitchers..NOBODY!
The last straws for me was the AJ Pollak trade and the Decock waiver pickup
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 4, 2023 19:09:29 GMT -5
The fault lies squarely at the feet of Farhan.He decided to sign players who cant hit, he decided to pick up everyone elses trash, thinking he knows better and he was the one yanking more suitable younger players (Matos / Ramos) in place of the shit FA he signed over the winter instead of cutting them loose..Joc sux and never should have been offered the QO..Stripling/Mannea are major disappointments,Haniger is a strike out machine and Yaz/Conforto pull a hammy every time they run to first..Ive never ever seen a team squeeze their collective butts harder with RISP than these losers..GK is also responsible and should be canned too..Nobody besides the over rated Flores instills fear in opposing pitchers..NOBODY! The last straws for me was the AJ Pollak trade and the Decock waiver pickup
Who was Decock?
Farhan TALKS a great game... but the reality of what he does is far, FAR different! |
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Post by reedonly on Sept 4, 2023 19:32:40 GMT -5
Based upon our record a month and a half ago, I think you could argue that this was and continues to be a total meltdown. I'm curious, has anyone on the board heard opinions from fans about GK? I know nobody an hour announcing Booth is going to say a bad word, because they can't, or likely they'd be fired. What's the media been saying? My Family and co-workers definitely do not like him. Most of the media is not saying anything negative but KNBR, the usual Giants shills, have been critical of the use of openers and platooning because they felt it wasn't sustainable. A few months ago, when the Giants had all those come from behind wins, Kuiper mentioned that a good team does not have that many come from behind wins because they are not in that position to begin with. I despise Kapler because of his political grandstanding and for being a poseur. I've mentioned before that during BLM protests that he made sure he had his photo ops with Antoan Richardson and Jaylen Davis, kneeling for National Anthem, etc. For Asian hate crimes, crickets. He has put pictures of Dr Martin Luther King and Jimi Hendrix on his Twitter page which seems pretentious (Hendrix would probably say to Kapler "blah blah woof woof"). He put the Giants players in an awkward position because they had their minds diverted away from baseball. He has a lot of information at his disposal and I think he worships the information so much that he lacks the ability to see what is going on and usually fails to read the room. |
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Post by reedonly on Sept 4, 2023 19:35:59 GMT -5
The fault lies squarely at the feet of Farhan.He decided to sign players who cant hit, he decided to pick up everyone elses trash, thinking he knows better and he was the one yanking more suitable younger players (Matos / Ramos) in place of the shit FA he signed over the winter instead of cutting them loose..Joc sux and never should have been offered the QO..Stripling/Mannea are major disappointments,Haniger is a strike out machine and Yaz/Conforto pull a hammy every time they run to first..Ive never ever seen a team squeeze their collective butts harder with RISP than these losers..GK is also responsible and should be canned too..Nobody besides the over rated Flores instills fear in opposing pitchers..NOBODY! The last straws for me was the AJ Pollak trade and the Decock waiver pickup
Who was Decock?
Farhan TALKS a great game... but the reality of what he does is far, FAR different!The Giants management were probably dazzled by the way he talks. Fortunately, they have Putila on board anytime they feel like getting rid of Zaidi. Putila was credited for helping build the Astros. |
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Post by reedonly on Sept 4, 2023 19:45:32 GMT -5
The main problem is Baer. He is too enamored with the Giants' lineage of big name legacy players (Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Clark, Clark, Bonds, Posey, Timmy, Mad Bum) that he thinks it is the only way to get fans to buy tickets. He the one who always wants to promote the playoff push, he's the one who always makes the futile chases for the big name FAs. I get that he's trying to wear a lot of hats by being the face of the Giants corporation, but he should butt out of the baseball operations.
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Post by holiday613 on Sept 4, 2023 22:15:04 GMT -5
Who was Decock?
Decock is Dejong..Farhan had Fitzgerald who was playing well, is the only 20/20 guy in the system and passed him over for shit like Camargo and the aforementioned Decock who only excels at striking out..perfect example where Farhan thinks he is smarter than everyine else..He was let go by 2 other teams..Passed waivers but the Giants still picked him up..The arrogance is sickening..No way did Fitzgerald , ( a former 3rd round draft pick) deserve to be overlooked for these stiffs
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Post by reedonly on Sept 5, 2023 6:04:58 GMT -5
Yesterday's use of Beck demonstrates that they don't have a clue and no one seems to have a defined role. To be honest, this is not a team that deserves any of my attention.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 5, 2023 7:59:14 GMT -5
Who was Decock? Decock is Dejong..Farhan had Fitzgerald who was playing well, is the only 20/20 guy in the system and passed him over for shit like Camargo and the aforementioned Decock who only excels at striking out..perfect example where Farhan thinks he is smarter than everyine else..He was let go by 2 other teams..Passed waivers but the Giants still picked him up..The arrogance is sickening..No way did Fitzgerald , ( a former 3rd round draft pick) deserve to be overlooked for these stiffs The obvious move would be to DFA dejong and promote Fitzgerald. That would be too easy. |
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Post by reedonly on Sept 5, 2023 9:29:23 GMT -5
Holiday613: The last straws for me was the AJ Pollak trade and the Decock waiver pickup
Pollack to be DFA so that they can re-instate Brebbia to the 40 man. Dejong will probably be the next one.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 5, 2023 10:25:18 GMT -5
Can't happen soon enough! Let the kid play shortstop!
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Post by reedonly on Sept 6, 2023 14:45:16 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7tO1wwA6dMwww.sfchronicle.com/sports/giants/article/giants-owner-greg-johnson-q-a-farhan-zaidi-s-18293301.phpThis is a youtube video which discusses a Susan Slusser podcast after a question and answer session with Greg Johnson, current CEO of the Giants. Sounds like Johnson's stated goal is to break even financially, not to go over the CBT. Supposedly, FZ was going to go after Verlander but Johnson did not want to have a pitcher making $40 million on the roster. Also, if they go after Ohtani, Ohtani would be it. The Mission Rock Project is not going to help as much as we would like. So if they are going to try to break even, they would be in the middle of the pack in spending. I realize spending does not guarantee success but it certainly helps to cover up for mistakes. It's pretty clear where the Giants' problem starts and its a rot that starts at the top and drips all the way down to the guy selling garlic fries.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 6, 2023 16:19:11 GMT -5
I understand finances, and I understand balancing the books. But basically what you reported is disgusting, and really has no place on a sports team that has a goal for winning.
Then again isn't this what I said from the beginning when they were going after Aaron judge? It would be one player and done with nobody surrounding him, just like we had nobody really surrounding Barry Bonds, except for a year or two.
The difference here is we have some kids that are close to being ready, which under Felipe alou, was never going to happen because he wouldn't play the kids!
Either way, if that's the management mindset, then basically we're screwed. We get GK for another year and FZ for another year, and on and on and on and on.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 6, 2023 16:20:38 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7tO1wwA6dMwww.sfchronicle.com/sports/giants/article/giants-owner-greg-johnson-q-a-farhan-zaidi-s-18293301.phpThis is a youtube video which discusses a Susan Slusser podcast after a question and answer session with Greg Johnson, current CEO of the Giants. Sounds like Johnson's stated goal is to break even financially, not to go over the CBT. Supposedly, FZ was going to go after Verlander but Johnson did not want to have a pitcher making $40 million on the roster. Also, if they go after Ohtani, Ohtani would be it. The Mission Rock Project is not going to help as much as we would like. So if they are going to try to break even, they would be in the middle of the pack in spending. I realize spending does not guarantee success but it certainly helps to cover up for mistakes. It's pretty clear where the Giants' problem starts and its a rot that starts at the top and drips all the way down to the guy selling garlic fries. Reed, can you do a cut and paste, because every time I start to read the article they flash all sorts of stuff and they want me to buy the link to the chronicle so I can't read the article |
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Post by reedonly on Sept 6, 2023 17:57:54 GMT -5
To get a handle on a 2023 San Francisco Giants team that’s all over the map, The Chronicle went straight to the top, to owner Greg Johnson, chairman of the board of directors and the control person for the organization.
Johnson spoke to us on a wide range of topics, including this streaky season, the quiet trade deadline, the future of a Giants icon, their exciting new players, those problematic donations his father, Charles, keeps making, and the Giants’ outlook on the free-agent market this winter.
Q: The team has been so inconsistent, it’s hard to characterize at times. What is your perspective?
GJ: I think that’s a fair statement. Obviously, just the amount of injuries and players moving in and out makes it even stranger — we were probably forced to bring up more players and that certainly brought a lot of energy for the fans and the team, and we saw that lift. But when you bring up that many players who are that young, you’re probably going to have some overly optimistic periods and a few more pessimistic periods.
Overall, it’s been a good experience, a validation of what we have in the wings as far as a lot of talent that we’ve all been waiting to see. But I think what Farhan Zaidi and Gabe Kapler can do with matchups has been somewhat challenged this year with the amount of players out. Certainly losing Mitch Haniger early in the season and having Mike Yastrzemski out and others in and out, has put a lot of pressure on that formula.
I’d also say the areas that we thought we had to address, especially the defense, have looked a lot better. I think you can see how important defense is really the last week, where we’ve been playing great defense, and suddenly made a couple of errors — you can see how quickly a game can get away from you. Even last week, where we actually started hitting the ball a little bit better, we started making a few mistakes and that hasn’t been characteristic of his team. So hopefully we can clean that up.
Q: The Giants are still in a wild-card spot right now, despite not playing that well at times. Do you look at this as a contending year or a year for the future, considering all the young players who have come up?
GJ: Well, I think it can be both. If anything tells you, going back in Giants history, we were never viewed as the best team in baseball when we won the World Series. We’re always careful about how we articulate the goals for the year and in saying we want to get in the playoffs — you want to make a deep run, but I go further than that: To me, every year you want to win at all, and I think if anything’s proven with how the Giants have gotten hot at the right time and gotten wild-card positions in the past, that can happen. There’s a lot of experience with the pitching staff, and if we jell at the right time, I think we have the potential to do extremely well. You get a little bit of a boost with some healthy players coming back. I would say we can clearly do more than just contend.
Q: How did you look at the trade deadline?
GJ: I can tell you that the group was extremely active and looking at everybody, reaching out everywhere where we thought it made sense, but I compare it to the investment world where we have a saying that inactivity can be highly intelligent behavior. At the end of the day, you should never feel forced to do something. Obviously, there’s a lot of pressure to do something, but as Farhan (Zaidi) said, we have a lot of talent and there are a lot of constraints around the 40-man roster. We have areas we can always improve, but there was really no situation to do that and a lot more people were buyers than sellers and we didn’t have the kind of people available (to us) that we felt could make a big difference.
The responsibility of management is to balance that short-term desire to get everybody excited and interject something into the last few months of the season but not at the expense of losing three of our best prospects. And the potential bigger deals had three to five of our best prospects on the list. So I felt very comfortable about what was happening. Farhan kept us all abreast through the entire process with all the calls that he had, and nothing really was going to move the needle — or if it was going to move the needle, it was way too expensive.
Q: Were there any constraints from a financial standpoint?
GJ: No.
Q: Farhan Zaidi mentioned to John Shea that the front office checked in on (Shohei) Ohtani. I know you can’t discuss specific players who might be available in free agency, but how do you see where the team might be from a financial standpoint when going after some of the biggest names?
GJ: I don’t think there are a lot of names available. It’s not like last year where you had a lot of big names hitting the market. This year is a little bit quieter with obviously one big name, maybe two. The financial flexibility is there but it comes at the cost of the flexibility to do other deals to fill in your roster. And we still have a lot of potential opt-ins and opt-outs, so it’ll all kind of fit into where we are flexibility-wise. I think the picture is still somewhat moving.
Q: The payroll this year is not among MLB’s top payrolls. Would you go over the luxury cap limits for the right potential fit?
GJ: We try to be smart about what we’re doing, and we recognize the importance for fans to have that kind of draw for the ballpark, all of that gets balanced in but it just depends on the situation and where we are. I don’t think we’d ever see ourselves massively exceeding that (competitive balance tax) level in the luxury tax.
Q: I know you’ve indicated that Farhan Zaidi’s option for next year will be picked up. Neither he nor Gabe Kapler has had their deal extended recently, where do you stand with that?
GJ: We could have opted out for next year, and we didn’t do that, which means Farhan is going to be around, both of them, through next season, and nothing’s changed as far as our desire. Farhan and I have been having discussions on what that rate format looks like for both of us, and he’s been so busy — I keep telling him, “Well, if you want to get together and talk about it and to finalize … and he’s just kind of like, ‘I’m fine.’ ”
We can wait potentially until after the season. I don’t think there’s been any urgency. He feels very comfortable that we’re committed to getting it done and I feel comfortable that he’s committed to staying.
Q: The same holds true for Kapler?
GJ: Exactly.
Q: The team gave Logan Webb a nice extension, do you see the possibility of doing things like that with some of your free-agents-to-be or some of your exciting young players on the near horizon?
GJ: I guess that’s probably more of a question for Farhan, but we’re certainly open to that and I think you know for me, coming from a fan perspective, I’d like to see some of these players around for longer than a year. So, yes, I would encourage it.
Q: What’s it been like having Buster Posey in the ownership group?
GJ: It’s great. He is a guy who will speak his piece. He texts me all the time. He sends articles with comments on how he feels about things. We were together just a couple of weeks ago and he said, “You know, I wouldn’t do any of this if I didn’t love and care for the Giants and didn’t want the Giants to continue to be the franchise that they’ve been forever. That’s the only reason I’m doing this. It’s not a financial thing. I was so proud when I was coming into the Giants’ system because of the history and I just want to make sure that we always respect that.” And he has been such a big part of that.
Q: This potentially could be Brandon Crawford’s last year with the team. How do you look at that, especially when he hasn’t said anything about being ready to retire?
GJ: That’s always a challenge when you don’t want to call it a farewell tour because he may be back with us, and that’s a baseball decision — we’ll see where we are. Obviously, he still brings a lot of value to the team. You don’t want to call it his last year because it may not be, so it makes it hard to give him the proper adulation he deserves if it is his last year. That’s always a tricky thing for anybody in sports who’s winding down a contract. And he could be around longer. That really is a baseball call.
Q: The Mission Bay project is starting to come together, but it doesn’t seem to have the ballpark village feel that exists with some ballpark developments, like Atlanta. Do you see any more fan-friendly additions?
GJ: Atlanta built this thing out in the middle of nowhere with a massive amount of land, and it’s a totally different deal than what we’re doing in the market. What we’re trying to do is create a neighborhood, a vibrant neighborhood that’s going to benefit the ballpark, but it’s not going to be a ballpark neighborhood necessarily.
Q: How much impact will the project have on what you can do financially from a baseball perspective?
GJ: I mean, it helps, there’s no question. How much it helps remains to be seen, but if everything goes great, it may add a good second baseman in a year. It’s not like, “Oh, they’ve got these billion-dollar buildings and now they can go pay a billion dollars.” We’re a general partner with many others with a percentage interest. The cash flow is the real driver that’s going to create more capability on the payroll side. The bottom line is, it’s a help — any help goes right into payroll. Our goal is to break even every year, so the more revenue we can take in goes straight to payroll.
Q: With that development moving along, is there the possibility of more parking for fans?
GJ: I’m with you on that. That was my biggest gripe when we were doing this thing.
Q: Your dad has made a number of political donations to far-right wing politicians that have drawn major criticism, particularly the ones to election conspiracy theorists. There were promises that he was going to stop making such donations, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. The team has been clear that team funds are not involved and these are personal donations, but has this become a problem for the organization?
GJ: I would say that he’s retired and lives in Florida. As far as any criticism directed toward me, I’d say to people that he’s not involved in the day-to-day operations, and his involvement with the team is more passive. It’s just sad to me that he gets painted as some conservative, when this may be one of the nicest, most gentle people you’d ever meet. I believe he is more aligned with our values than the narrative that is in the press.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 6, 2023 18:37:41 GMT -5
So what's the and GK are back for next year how nice for us. Another year of bad pitching decisions not running out the same nine guys to play that are each week, and another season of mediocracy. Swell
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Post by pachyderm on Sept 6, 2023 19:01:17 GMT -5
e'rebody
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Post by reedonly on Sept 6, 2023 20:38:38 GMT -5
A lot of uncertainty because they don't know who will opt in or opt out. I'm thinking Stripling, Manaea, and COnforto opt in because they pretty much sucked this year and won't get the same amount of money on the open market.
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Post by reedonly on Sept 6, 2023 21:24:48 GMT -5
The problem is that no one will be held accountable, and they will continue to play incompetent ball to the bitter end. The veterans have pretty much sucked (Looking at you Joc, deSclafani, JD, Yaz, Conforto, Stripling, Manaea), Kapler and the coaching staff have lost the clubhouse, FZ did not help the team at the deadline. The right thing to do now is to sit the vets and play the kids to give them some experience and to help iron out the mistakes but FZ and GK are going to continue to make the futile push. If they think this is the way to impress Ohtani, they are mistaken. The Giants are now 7 games behind the Cubs for the home playoff game so the even to get the third playoff spot is almost useless (less revenue).
It was not long ago that the Giants were the top sports organization in the Bay Area but they have fallen to third and if they want to see how it is done, the Giants need to look a few blocks south. They have to get honest about Kapler, he's not capable of getting past .500 (2021 is an outlier). They also have to come clean about their mission statement and goals. I'm thinking the goal now is to not lose money on the baseball end and make their serious money on the Mission Rock Project. For Johnson, Baer, and owners, the baseball side is now an afterthought. Their main focus is the Mission Rock property. As such, now that the Giants' valuation has gone up so much, maybe some of these owners should get out of the baseball business and focus on the Mission Rock project. If they don't want to win, they need to go.
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