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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 26, 2023 11:20:05 GMT -5
You really, really have to ask yourself:
1-How come Alex Wood, of whom I think very little this season, can hold Atlanta scoreless, and our 'ace' gives up so many runs?
2-How come we continue to hit a lot of balls so hard...but go for so many outs?i.e. Thairo's shot into the RCF gap last night. That ball gets through, and it's a different game.
3-How come the OTHER teams hit the balls hard... and more often then not, become RBI hits?
4-How come Mustache guy, Strider, comes into the game with a 3.57 ERA, which means teams ARE scoring against him... and twice now, we can't?
5-How come, after hitting so well w/RISP during May and June... this clods can no longer do so, and worse, ending up not even hitting the ball at all?
6-How come THIS group has so many hamstring/soft tissue injuries, you need more fingers and toes to count them all? Yaz-3, Slater-2, Conforto-2...and that's just a few guys I'm mentioning here.
7-How come, every time you turn around, another key piece of our offense goes down? Every team has injuries, but how many IN THE WILD CARD RACE are missing 3 of their top hitters, Yaz, Haniger, Conforto, when it counts most?
8-How come no one in management sees that no other team over the last 2 years, has the soft tissue injuries the Giants do?
9-Basically, how come...
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Post by reedonly on Aug 26, 2023 13:55:11 GMT -5
Boly: -How come we continue to hit a lot of balls so hard...but go for so many outs?i.e. Thairo's shot into the RCF gap last night. That ball gets through, and it's a different game
This isn’t luck. They’re hitting right where the analytics say they hit.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 26, 2023 14:25:54 GMT -5
Not doubting what you're saying is true, but if that's the case, how come our guys aren't in the right place? We have all the analytics everyone else does, and from everything that I read, we use a more aggressively than any other team!
I know their answer that you're saying is logical one, I just believe it's more than that. This entire season has been one of incredible bad luck after another
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Post by pachyderm on Aug 26, 2023 17:30:40 GMT -5
Well my question is...  |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 26, 2023 17:36:19 GMT -5
Not doubting what you're saying is true, but if that's the case, how come our guys aren't in the right place? We have all the analytics everyone else does, and from everything that I read, we use a more aggressively than any other team! I know their answer that you're saying is logical one, I just believe it's more than that. This entire season has been one of incredible bad luck after another In Jeopardy, the question is "What is the difference between Ron Wotus and Kai Correa?" |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 26, 2023 19:05:21 GMT -5
Not sure, but I'll take Ron Wotus in a heartbeat
Too much sabermetrics with this group
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 26, 2023 19:50:26 GMT -5
Nobody even knows who Kai Correa is. He saddles up next to Kapler every game, but he has almost no significant history in his resume to suggest he belongs anywhere near a major league dugout. Since he's Asian I guess they figured he's good with numbers. I hope when they fire Kapler they fire Correa too.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 26, 2023 20:32:14 GMT -5
He’s the guy in charge of positioning
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 26, 2023 21:57:05 GMT -5
Nobody even knows who Kai Correa is. He saddles up next to Kapler every game, but he has almost no significant history in his resume to suggest he belongs anywhere near a major league dugout. Since he's Asian I guess they figured he's good with numbers. I hope when they fire Kapler they fire Correa too. Sounds to me like it's just another minority hiring. I still can't believe we have a woman in our dugout. She's one of the first people I'd get rid of. Not the first, but one of them. |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 27, 2023 10:08:08 GMT -5
Nobody even knows who Kai Correa is. He saddles up next to Kapler every game, but he has almost no significant history in his resume to suggest he belongs anywhere near a major league dugout. Since he's Asian I guess they figured he's good with numbers. I hope when they fire Kapler they fire Correa too. Sounds to me like it's just another minority hiring. I still can't believe we have a woman in our dugout. She's one of the first people I'd get rid of. Not the first, but one of them. I have read somewhere else that the hitting went downhill after Donnie Eckler left. Now, the Giants have three hitting coaches: Lind, Viele, and Guerrero and Bonds as an unofficial coach. I am hearing that the hitting coaches' hold on their jobs may be tenuous at best and a number of players are going to Bonds for help. |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 27, 2023 10:55:07 GMT -5
Nobody even knows who Kai Correa is. He saddles up next to Kapler every game, but he has almost no significant history in his resume to suggest he belongs anywhere near a major league dugout. Since he's Asian I guess they figured he's good with numbers. I hope when they fire Kapler they fire Correa too. Sounds to me like it's just another minority hiring. I still can't believe we have a woman in our dugout. She's one of the first people I'd get rid of. Not the first, but one of them. Correa has played as an infielder for four years in college and then as a coach with a lot of different roles from 2010 on. He has two years' experience in the Indians' organization. He's done a lot of things like assistant coach, strength and conditioning, and academic advisor but more of the time, he is an infield coach and in charge of defensive positioning. He's not necessarily a minority hire and not necessarily a guy with no on field experience. I still would rather have Wotus but I think Wotus is done with the grind. |
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 27, 2023 13:22:43 GMT -5
Correa played and coached for a Division 3 college. He went from that to a job with the Indians, how does that happen?
I'm not saying Correa doesn't know anything, but that big of a jump didn't happen because he was the most qualified, he obviously knew the right person, or they needed to fill their minority quota..or perhaps a little of both.
And now a few years later he's essentially the #2 guy in the dugout, saddled up next to Kapler every game. We got Championship trophy cases in the lobby, this ain't a division 3 college and it's not the Indians either. It's like taking a McDonald's fry cook and making him the kitchen manager of a michelin star restaurant.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 27, 2023 16:02:21 GMT -5
Sounds to me like it's just another minority hiring. I still can't believe we have a woman in our dugout. She's one of the first people I'd get rid of. Not the first, but one of them. I have read somewhere else that the hitting went downhill after Donnie Eckler left. Now, the Giants have three hitting coaches: Lind, Viele, and Guerrero and Bonds as an unofficial coach. I am hearing that the hitting coaches' hold on their jobs may be tenuous at best and a number of players are going to Bonds for help. Based upon the problems Yaz has had since Eckler left, good riddance to The Three Idiots we have, because with them JD Davis has gone downhill conforto never really got it back to what he's capable of doing, and Joc Pederson is having the worst season I can remember him having. Wasn't that long ago, last year in fact, he was a real threat. He's doing better lately, but nowhere near good enough, and he's not driving in runs. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 27, 2023 16:03:21 GMT -5
Correa played and coached for a Division 3 college. He went from that to a job with the Indians, how does that happen? I'm not saying Correa doesn't know anything, but that big of a jump didn't happen because he was the most qualified, he obviously knew the right person, or they needed to fill their minority quota..or perhaps a little of both. And now a few years later he's essentially the #2 guy in the dugout, saddled up next to Kapler every game. We got Championship trophy cases in the lobby, this ain't a division 3 college and it's not the Indians either. It's like taking a McDonald's fry cook and making him the kitchen manager of a michelin star restaurant. I'll stand by what I said; minority hiring. That's why we have a woman and a dug up for god sakes! |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 27, 2023 19:01:03 GMT -5
A lot of workplace managers these days are biased in favor of workers with youth and computer skills over older workers with decades of experience. A lot of people at our workplace with over three decades of experience were phased out in favor of young bean counters. They made it hard for the older workers by working them physically as if they were thirty years younger. I don't think the Kai Correa hiring was solely due to minority but that they probably wanted someone younger who would follow marching orders or gives them the data that they want to give.
I have a feeling the Giants made it hard on Wotus to continue probably by requiring him to learn a lot of anyalytics and computers.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 27, 2023 21:57:03 GMT -5
Does it make it any better, and it does not explain why we have a woman in the dug out
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 27, 2023 21:57:35 GMT -5
DOESN'T...
Stupid phone
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Post by reedonly on Aug 27, 2023 23:24:21 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't think the Giants made the Kai Correa hire as a minority hire. The reason is that the Giants organization tends to ignore Asians in general and pander more to certain other groups. When Asians were victims of Asian hate recently, the Giants hardly made any mention of it on their website. They just ran a paragraph denouncing Asian hate and buried it deep on their website and quietly made a donation (it was buried so deep that one would need to Google search to find it). Another ethnic group always gets shout outs by Kapler and other groups regularly get higher profile on the website and promotional days. This is not meant to start a political debate but to mention that the Giants organization treats the Asian demographic as invisible.
If they truly wanted to sign Senga, Suzuki, or Ohtani, they would be impressed more if the Giants made a more robust reaction to Asian hate equal to how much they pander to other special interest groups or showing that they are getting involved with the sizable Asian communities. Players are not going to be impressed with a mere dinner in Japantown. The signing of Kai Correa was not trying to pander to the Asian community because the Giants care little for the Asian community even though Asians are 35% of San Francisco. Kai Correa was probably signed because he presented well and carried an iPad to his interview. All that and Ron Wotus has more knowledge in his pinky than Correa will ever have.
Their favored special interest groups get prime time like weekends, nationally televised, or games with rivals or prime opponents. Their less favored groups usually get Heritage Nights (Tuesday night games against Rockies or something).
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Post by reedonly on Aug 27, 2023 23:48:32 GMT -5
Boly: I know their answer that you're saying is logical one, I just believe it's more than that. This entire season has been one of incredible bad luck after another
There are a couple of quotes about bad luck:
"If you have bad luck at dawn, you have bad luck. If you have bad luck all day, YOU ARE THE BAD LUCK."
"Luck has a habit of favoring those who do not depend on it."
"The only thing more dangerous than ignorance is arrogance."
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 28, 2023 2:49:25 GMT -5
I like that second one a lot, Reed.
I remember Rog mentioning luck in 2012 when the Giants won the division, then went on to sweep the Tigers in the World Series. I didn't agree with the assessment that somehow good luck had to do with them winning the Championship then, just like I can't blame the Giants poor play on bad luck now.
Yes, odd occurrences happen, sometimes it benefits a team, sometimes it doesn't. I feel that throughout a full baseball season it tends to even out. Just like getting calls that are for you or go against you also even out. It's the teams that make the most of those opportunities that play deep into October.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 28, 2023 8:40:42 GMT -5
I Agee we have played poorly, but I also contend we have had a terrible run of bad luck, so I guess I am going to partially disagree.
Then again poor playoffs is normally accompanied with bad luck
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 28, 2023 8:41:22 GMT -5
Take out the word playoffs.
stupid phone!
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Post by reedonly on Aug 28, 2023 10:02:33 GMT -5
I Agee we have played poorly, but I also contend we have had a terrible run of bad luck, so I guess I am going to partially disagree. Then again poor playoffs is normally accompanied with bad luck If a team is continually doing some things and the same things wrong, it just means they are not making adjustments. For example, if everyone is pulling hamstrings, it would be silly to continue the present exercise regimen without trying the make adjustments for all the hammys. These guys are good with coming up with a plan based on spreadsheets but that's as far as they seem to go. No adjustments. To be honest, if a team has two decent starters, three days of bullpen games, a bunch of journeyman and platoon hitters and a lot of untested rookies, to me, that screams .500, which is about where they are at. If they want to take the next step, they have to start to think and think differently and I think they need to establish at least four starting pitchers and cut down the platooning crap. Manager has to manage, not just parrot what the analytics group says. |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 28, 2023 10:05:26 GMT -5
I Agee we have played poorly, but I also contend we have had a terrible run of bad luck, so I guess I am going to partially disagree. Then again poor playoffs is normally accompanied with bad luck A good team would learn how to minimize the effect of bad luck. All people and all teams have bad luck, the winners are the ones who rise up and respond, bad luck or no. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 28, 2023 10:43:04 GMT -5
I Agee we have played poorly, but I also contend we have had a terrible run of bad luck, so I guess I am going to partially disagree. Then again poor playoffs is normally accompanied with bad luck If a team is continually doing some things and the same things wrong, it just means they are not making adjustments. For example, if everyone is pulling hamstrings, it would be silly to continue the present exercise regimen without trying the make adjustments for all the hammys. These guys are good with coming up with a plan based on spreadsheets but that's as far as they seem to go. No adjustments. To be honest, if a team has two decent starters, three days of bullpen games, a bunch of journeyman and platoon hitters and a lot of untested rookies, to me, that screams .500, which is about where they are at. If they want to take the next step, they have to start to think and think differently and I think they need to establish at least four starting pitchers and cut down the platooning crap. Manager has to manage, not just parrot what the analytics group says.
But changes are not what this regime is all about.
To me, they are the definition of insanity; you know, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Frankly, I LOVED Thairo's speech to the team; reminiscent of Hunter Pence only without the animation.
Also, really loved the aggressive play everywhere yesterday.
LONG over due.
Then again, that goes back to my statement above about insanity.
We DON'T steal bases, and we have a couple of guys who can.
We DON'T bunt and worst, we DON'T hit and run.
Kapler doesn't like to do those things which, IMHO, makes him a narrow minded leader.
Which again, goes back to my statement about insanity. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 28, 2023 10:47:14 GMT -5
I Agee we have played poorly, but I also contend we have had a terrible run of bad luck, so I guess I am going to partially disagree. Then again poor playoffs is normally accompanied with bad luck A good team would learn how to minimize the effect of bad luck. All people and all teams have bad luck, the winners are the ones who rise up and respond, bad luck or no.
Every team hits the ball hard and makes outs.
Every team.
But this team, IMHO, does it more than others, and yes, I believe a lot of this is magnified by how crappy we've played.
We've played lethargic, unfocused baseball for over 3 weeks.
But it doesn't change my point.
Too many balls hammered...right at some one, or someone makes a spectacular play.
A couple of games back, in Philly, I think it was, Flemming spoke about a report which said the GIANTS had the worst luck of all the teams in baseball regarding balls with a high percentage of being hits... that weren't.
He's quoting statistics and not just giving an opinion .
Mine, admittedly IS an opinion, but I contend his stats back up my statement. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 28, 2023 10:49:35 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't think the Giants made the Kai Correa hire as a minority hire. The reason is that the Giants organization tends to ignore Asians in general and pander more to certain other groups. When Asians were victims of Asian hate recently, the Giants hardly made any mention of it on their website. They just ran a paragraph denouncing Asian hate and buried it deep on their website and quietly made a donation (it was buried so deep that one would need to Google search to find it). Another ethnic group always gets shout outs by Kapler and other groups regularly get higher profile on the website and promotional days. This is not meant to start a political debate but to mention that the Giants organization treats the Asian demographic as invisible. If they truly wanted to sign Senga, Suzuki, or Ohtani, they would be impressed more if the Giants made a more robust reaction to Asian hate equal to how much they pander to other special interest groups or showing that they are getting involved with the sizable Asian communities. Players are not going to be impressed with a mere dinner in Japantown. The signing of Kai Correa was not trying to pander to the Asian community because the Giants care little for the Asian community even though Asians are 35% of San Francisco. Kai Correa was probably signed because he presented well and carried an iPad to his interview. All that and Ron Wotus has more knowledge in his pinky than Correa will ever have. Their favored special interest groups get prime time like weekends, nationally televised, or games with rivals or prime opponents. Their less favored groups usually get Heritage Nights (Tuesday night games against Rockies or something).
Which doesn't say a lot about leadership of this team.
35% Asian... and they ignore them!
And I'll bet that's not exactly a secret, and certain confirms what you said about Japanese players NOT wanting to come here and play.
And from arguable the most WOKE city on the planet, that's hard to phathom or understand. |
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 28, 2023 12:21:43 GMT -5
In my opinion Asians really aren't what people would consider as "marginalized" in the bay area. I'm not even really sure Asians are what we should consider a minority in the bay area anymore. I grew up in Sunnyvale and Los Altos hills, two of the more upscale areas in the bay. I remember going to school with many Asians, but not many Black or Hispanic kids. This was back in the 80's, the Asian population has only grown since then. Also, the Asians I know don't want to be treated as a minority, or a marginalized race. They believe in hard work and don't expect help or handouts...so I think any suggestion that they need special treatment doesn't really have the same reaction that you get from other races.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 28, 2023 13:47:56 GMT -5
Where the Giants are concerned , it’s more out of fear than benevolence. When they first started these event days, it was out of fear of alienating a demographic and it mushroomed after that. This is based on observations over the years. No resentment or anything but after watching what they do, it’s how they rock.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 28, 2023 14:49:23 GMT -5
I agree, it certainly looks like they try to appease everyone. Unfortunately, in the bay area that's probably a good business practice.
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