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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 25, 2022 10:46:33 GMT -5
Are we going to even have a shot at winning our division this year?
Oh, my Lord! No! Not a chance! Not a chance unless both LA and SD both have 1/2 their teams get the injury bug like we did last year!
But I think we've done enough NOT to finish last, and to actually have an outside shot at a playoff position.
Not that we'd go anywhere if we did, but at least a shot.
Let's be honest. A lot of things have to go right for us to accomplish the above:
What I worry about is multi-fold:
1-Will we stay healthy? If we don't, erase what I wrote above.
This is the biggest area of all.
2-Will our defense be better?
Marginally because Pederson will NOT be in the OF.
3-Will Villar become the power hitter/player we are all hoping for?
4-Will Estrada's defense on routine plays improve?
5-Will Harrison be able to come up and pitch better than Sammy Long did? And IS he the guy we think he is?
6-Will Wade be healthy and be the hitter we thought he'd be?
7-Will Yaz stop trying to lift and yank and go back to being a good hitter?
Lots of questions. But then every team has lots of questions... SD and LA excepted.
Though we are NOT going to confuse anyone into thinking our starting staff is even in the top 5, it likely will be above average to pretty good.
And THAT'S a huge improvement.
I like the Rogers addition a lot.
I also like the additions of Conforto, because, as I said, it will likely be only a one year dealy-bopper, and Hanniger.
Though we don't have a lead off guy vs RHP, we potentially have 3 guys that could hit between 25 and 30 HRs.
Potential is almost a 4 letter word, I know, but it's possible.
At least now we can let some kids play and go into the season having something fun to watch.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 25, 2022 13:54:50 GMT -5
And they got a $350 million lump of coal in their Christmas stocking.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 25, 2022 15:55:52 GMT -5
Sure I understand what you're getting at. Since the deal fell through, we got 350 million dollars back we figured we had spent.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 25, 2022 16:32:16 GMT -5
I’m now thinking if Correa has not passed two physicals, he probably hurt himself more severely than he thought in September and they will end up with another La Stella situation sooner or later. So, the first few years, they get Correa. The rest of the contract, they get La Stella. As Boagie said, Correa is not a top offensive player so $350 million back in play for later.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 25, 2022 16:33:15 GMT -5
The ankle injury Posey suffered in 2011 has been revealed as the cause of his retirement
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 25, 2022 20:24:58 GMT -5
We did something?
We lost Rodon, and we replaced him with two number 5 pitchers, if that.
We potentially lost Belt to either free agency or injury.
We lost Longoria (which I consider a good thing) but we haven't replaced his power production.
We may have lost Crawford psychologically, and honestly, I wouldn't blame him for feeling very disrespected by the club. After all he's done in the uniform, and being a lifelong Giants fan, and his openness to adopting the new coaching staff...I find it to be repulsive. To me it's solidified my feelings about FZ. It shows he only consider these guys as a number.
I wasn't for getting Judge or Correa, but we really didn't do anything noteworthy in the offseason. We got worse, not better.
A month or two ago, Boly, you were saying the Giants need to make multiple significant moves for big name guys or this offseason would be a major disappointment. Now you're walking that back, walking that WAY back. What changed in your mind?
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 25, 2022 20:38:24 GMT -5
We did something? We lost Rodon, and we replaced him with two number 5 pitchers, if that. We potentially lost Belt to either free agency or injury. We lost Longoria (which I consider a good thing) but we haven't replaced his power production. We may have lost Crawford psychologically, and honestly, I wouldn't blame him for feeling very disrespected by the club. After all he's done in the uniform, and being a lifelong Giants fan, and his openness to adopting the new coaching staff...I find it to be repulsive. To me it's solidified my feelings about FZ. It shows he only consider these guys as a number. I wasn't for getting Judge or Correa, but we really didn't do anything noteworthy in the offseason. We got worse, not better. A month or two ago, Boly, you were saying the Giants need to make multiple significant moves for big name guys or this offseason would be a major disappointment. Now you're walking that back, walking that WAY back. What changed in your mind? Walking back? Hardly! boagie, you misunderstand my point. And I mean TOTALLY!
A week ago I was ticked and predicted we would fish the bottom of garbage cans for players. What Reed calls the "churn."
I wasn't in the mood to take more of that crap; to go through one more season with FZ's nonsense!
I think he's a lying butt-head!
I'm Happy I was wrong! I'm happy We signed some players to at least give me SOMETHING to look forward to this season.
That's all I meant, because I didn't think we would sign anyone.
You likely don't agree, and that's okay.
If you read my post you'll see that I said Conforto is a one year dealy-bopper. He's going to fill a hole and then move on.
NOT one of our minor league outfielders are even close to ready.
Not one.
As to Belt, I don't want him taking up a roster spot. Especially with his injury history.
Longoria? Good riddance!
I don't believe we lost Crawford at all.
He's a pro. He might be ticked, but he comes to play every day.
He is a pro. And I can't say that for a large portion of professional athletes.
But all that said, I agree with you: they way Crawford was treated is, was and continues to be unforgivable!
It IS repulsive!
It IS disgusting!
And, IMHO, it is TOTAL a reflection of the kind of people that runs our team.
Generation X and millennials at their worst!
And yeah, I know they are all NOT X or millennials, but all too many are.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 26, 2022 8:06:05 GMT -5
A couple things: Stripling-Manaea is not replacing Rodon, it's replacing Rodon and Wood (or Junis). So, downgrade on one end of rotation and upgrade to back end.
Second is Crawford plays harder when he feels people think he is washed up. While I don't expect him to be as good as in 2021, he won't be as bad as he was in 2022. There's a possibility he ends up with a better year than 2 of the big 4 shortstops.
They grade C- so far this offseason and they have a lot of work to do. The biggest area of concern is the minor league system and that is where they can raise their grade. We are likely looking at a team that wins about 78 games.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 26, 2022 10:51:49 GMT -5
A couple things: Stripling-Manaea is not replacing Rodon, it's replacing Rodon and Wood (or Junis). So, downgrade on one end of rotation and upgrade to back end. Second is Crawford plays harder when he feels people think he is washed up. While I don't expect him to be as good as in 2021, he won't be as bad as he was in 2022. There's a possibility he ends up with a better year than 2 of the big 4 shortstops. They grade C- so far this offseason and they have a lot of work to do. The biggest area of concern is the minor league system and that is where they can raise their grade. We are likely looking at a team that wins about 78 games. Please understand, Reed, I am not saying Stripling and Manea are replacing Rodon. Neither is anywhere close to that good.
I'm also NOT saying I'm happy with what we've done.
FZ DROPPED THE FREAKING BALL...AGA!IN!
He had the finances to make some bold moves... but sat on his bloody hands... AGAIN!
As I tried to explain in my previous post; I'm just glad we did something; that we didn't sit around and do nothing; that we didn't take it up the shorts...AGAIN!
Conforto is a place holder, nothing more.
Stripling is better than Sammy Long OR Junis, and likely so is Manea.
Am I happy?
Oh, HECK NO!
I grade the off season a C/C+ if ONLY for the signing of Hanniger and Stripling.
Just please stop trying to paint the picture as if I am.
I post something positive... and I get crucified.
Perfect.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 26, 2022 12:53:07 GMT -5
Reed- A couple things: Stripling-Manaea is not replacing Rodon, it's replacing Rodon and Wood (or Junis). So, downgrade on one end of rotation and upgrade to back end.
Boagie- Aren't both Wood and Junis still on the Roster?
When I say they're replacing Rodon, I'm thinking in a moneyball sense...They lost Rodon, and they hope the additions of Stripling and Manaea will pick up those wins. I don't see that happening, but even if they do, I thought the goal was to get BETTER, not stay the same. Rodon can go deep in the game, neither of our pickups can do that, which puts even more stress on the bullpen.
Our pitching (outside of Rodon, Webb and Doval) was atrocious last season, and I think downgrading our front end and MAYBE upgrading our back end, to me, makes it that much more atrocious.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 26, 2022 13:20:24 GMT -5
Boly- I'm Happy I was wrong! I'm happy We signed some players to at least give me SOMETHING to look forward to this season.
That's all I meant, because I didn't think we would sign anyone.
You likely don't agree, and that's okay.
Boagie- I agree that we made a few decent signings..Haniger and Conforto were decent additions to the lineup, but are we going to out-hit any team with Haniger, Conforto and Pederson? No, we're not. Pederson is streaky, Haniger is injury prone and Conforto is a huge question mark after a shoulder surgery and a full year off. On a good team these guys would be batting 6th, 7th or 8th..yet on the Giants they'll be expected to produce in the middle of our lineup. Now, if all three can have career years I think we'll compete, but it's far more likely that isn't going to happen.
On the defensive end we also got worse. Hanger and Conforto both lack range, although they both have decent arms. But this does now force Yastrzemski into CF, which overall gives us extremely poor range in the outfield. I felt we needed to improve on range, not downgrade.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 26, 2022 14:13:48 GMT -5
Totally agree, and for what he DIDN'T do/FAILED to do/REFUSED to do, I still contend FZ needs to be shown the door! "And that," as the warden in the movie Shawshank Redemption said, "right quick!"
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Post by reedonly on Dec 26, 2022 21:12:28 GMT -5
Sorry If what I typed didn't come out right. No offense meant.
I think the way we should look at the offseason is like watching a D- student improve to a C. A C is still not good but people would be happy its not a D-.
To clarify the roles of Stripling and Manaea: I don't see them replacing Rodon in value but one takes starts that Rodon would have made and the other is intended to take Wood's starts. They don't like the way Wood goes through the lineup once and then struggles. They want Wood and Junis to be the long relievers or the first reliever if the starter has problems. This is supposed to help them not use the bullpen as much. Wood is still on the roster but he has lost his starter's spot. Rotation plan will be Webb-Stripling-Manaea-Cobb-DeSclafani (order doesn't mean anything) and that is assuming DeSclafani is healthy. That's what I meant by Wood being replaced.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 26, 2022 22:01:50 GMT -5
That's good to hear, because wood should not be a starter.
And no offense taken.It's hard to get your feelings put across when words are typed, because you cannot hear voice inflection.
So I took no offense, I just didn't want to be perceived in a way I thought I was being perceived
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Post by reedonly on Dec 27, 2022 10:08:33 GMT -5
I'm hearing that Taylor Rogers was brought in to supplement Sam Long and Alexander.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 27, 2022 11:26:09 GMT -5
Totally agree, and for what he DIDN'T do/FAILED to do/REFUSED to do, I still contend FZ needs to be shown the door! "And that," as the warden in the movie Shawshank Redemption said, "right quick!" It is coming out that ownership was the onus behind the Correa deal, not FZ. That probably gives FZ a mulligan but I still feel he got too caught up in dealing with Judge and Correa that he failed to pivot when he needed to.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 27, 2022 14:22:37 GMT -5
No question that I agree, but I can tell what I posted earlier, that he got so focused on one player that he did not pursue others while he was waiting for that 1 player to come through. And because he stalled and waited around, he got nothing
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Post by reedonly on Dec 27, 2022 16:37:52 GMT -5
Boly: 5-Will Harrison be able to come up and pitch better than Sammy Long did? And IS he the guy we think he is?
Krukow feels Harrison can do it but he is very green. His game has a lot of deception and he will have to learn to take on a number of roles (bullpen, start, etc) in order to succeed.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 27, 2022 18:54:57 GMT -5
When I heard he didn't have an upper 90's heater, I was thinking along the same lines
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Post by reedonly on Dec 28, 2022 11:35:01 GMT -5
Sorry If what I typed didn't come out right. No offense meant. I think the way we should look at the offseason is like watching a D- student improve to a C. A C is still not good but people would be happy its not a D-. To clarify the roles of Stripling and Manaea: I don't see them replacing Rodon in value but one takes starts that Rodon would have made and the other is intended to take Wood's starts. They don't like the way Wood goes through the lineup once and then struggles. They want Wood and Junis to be the long relievers or the first reliever if the starter has problems. This is supposed to help them not use the bullpen as much. Wood is still on the roster but he has lost his starter's spot. Rotation plan will be Webb-Stripling-Manaea-Cobb-DeSclafani (order doesn't mean anything) and that is assuming DeSclafani is healthy. That's what I meant by Wood being replaced. One thing that makes me a little bit uncomfortable is that when they mention the starters, Hjelle and Long are never mentioned. I'm not sure if they have given up on them or what. I would think Hjelle's height advantage would take a foot less distance for hitters to pick up the ball and his downward plane of pitching is good for groundballs. I get why they would go after Stripling or Manaea if they feel Hjelle is not part of the solution. They also do not mention Sam Long and I'm afraid they are starting to give up on him. I am guessing that deSclafani will never again be fully healthy based on what happened last season and the next two up that they always mention are Wood and Junis. I would take long looks at Hjelle and Long in ST.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 28, 2022 13:36:23 GMT -5
They're Sabean's guys, which means they're going to the scrap. Farhan only wants guys he can take credit for.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 28, 2022 13:37:53 GMT -5
They tried to scrap Webb too, but he fought through it and made it so they couldn't get rid of him.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 28, 2022 16:11:05 GMT -5
They're Sabean's guys, which means they're going to the scrap. Farhan only wants guys he can take credit for. FZ's guys are very suspect. Bishop was supposed to be one of the top athletes in his draft class but he has stalled. It was like he hit a wall with the organization. Don''t care much for Bailey and Bednar, thus far.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 29, 2022 11:31:23 GMT -5
They tried to scrap Webb too, but he fought through it and made it so they couldn't get rid of him. With all the BS Webb has to put up with, he's not going to give FZ a hometown discount when his contract is up.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 29, 2022 13:36:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure to what BS you're referring to, Reed.
Can you fill me in?
Thanks!
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Post by reedonly on Dec 30, 2022 9:18:49 GMT -5
He does not like how timid the front office is and really does not like the poor defense. His opinion of the FO is about the same as ours.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 30, 2022 9:25:56 GMT -5
Thanks! That's what I needed to know that the players are not happy either, or at least some of the players aren't happy either. And I'll bet Brandon Crawford is one of them
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 30, 2022 9:41:35 GMT -5
In my opinion, Webb is also not a big fan of Kapler's in-game management of the pitching staff.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 30, 2022 11:25:00 GMT -5
You can get an idea of what Webb thinks by looking at his Twitter account. For example, when Kevin Gausman tweeted that sometimes a team has to take risks, Webb "liked" it. Krukow said during last season that the pitchers would often hold meetings around the batting cage when the defense was going poorly (that was when they wanted to pitch for strikeouts) and Rodon and Webb were probably the ringleaders. Webb grew up in Rocklin but I do not see him giving the Giants any sort of hometown discount and they should not expect it.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 30, 2022 13:12:24 GMT -5
In my opinion, Webb is also not a big fan of Kapler's in-game management of the pitching staff. And, for what it's worth, as an "old Timer," I don't like it either.
Kapler has his head so burried in sabermetrics he doesn't even know which way is up anymore.
Is he THAT insecure that he can't trust what he sees?
I can't do it, but I wish...I WISH I could pull for us to have another terrible season so both he and his pal Farhan are shown the door.
Maybe Posey can help with that.
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