Correa

[reedonly]

They had better repair their relationship with Brandon Crawford. Note that Correa is going to play third for the Mets.

[klaiggeb]

Though obviously I did not know about the medical problem, remember, from the beginning I wanted Swanson and not Carlos Correa.

Last place, here we come!

[Islandboagie]

Last place is better than 3rd and paying a ton of money to a good (not great) player for the next 13 years.

[klaiggeb]

boagie, I agree. But my point is this: we should NOT be in this position.

This is the Fault of General Lipservice who outright deceived Giant's fans.

[Islandboagie]

I disagree, I don't think he knowingly deceived, I think he's just not very good at his job. The people around him appear to be just as clueless.

[reedonly]

There was this feeling after the Correa announcement that all of the heavy lifting was done and subsequently all sorts of pieces that might have helped came off the board.  As per usual, the plodders did nothing.  This was the point where I felt they lost the off-season when they were patting themselves on the back with Correa.  

[reedonly]

Dec 21, 2022 14:25:51 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

boagie, I agree. But my point is this: we should NOT be in this position.

This is the Fault of General Lipservice who outright deceived Giant's fans.

They got into this position when they stopped moving after the Correa announcment.  

[klaiggeb]

You could very well be correct, but I contend they stopped moving forward long before the Correa thing

[reedonly]

They were getting Stripling and Manaea just before Correa.

[reedonly]

Dec 21, 2022 2:19:02 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

Apparently something of concern came up during Correa's physical. Anyone want to bet it's PEDs?

Correa was all dressed up for the presser and Pavlovic says the holdup was an ankle injury from 2014.  That seems really odd since he has played eight years without leg problems.  As I mentioned in another thread, Olney reported that Correa had problems with his back requiring treatment every day.  

Bobby Evans, Ned Colletti, and Marty Lurie all weighed in on KNBR today.  Colletti said that he never considered a player signed until he was signed.  Lurie said he could not believe it was the ankle injury.  If so, someone did not do their due diligence when reviewing medical records (Evans felt it should have been done even before they made an offer).  Evans felt it was a consensus and possibly rushed by Boras.  Seeing as how quickly Boras moved toward the Mets, it seems like they felt like they had to act fast as if they had something to hide.  

Either the level of incompetence shown here is mind boggling or something popped up emergently during the physical that was not evident in the medical records.  The medical records probably have exhaustive detail about the ankle and his back which leads me to think that it is not related to ankle or back.   I get exasperated by FZ's decisions all the time but this deal had to pass through Greg Johnson, FZ, Putila, and the medical staff and not all of them got where they were by being stupid (some, but not all).  I now get the feeling that the leaked reports are covering for Correa somewhat and that Boagie might have hit the nail on the head.

[klaiggeb]

Dec 21, 2022 22:02:38 GMT -5 reedonly said:

They were getting Stripling and Manaea just before Correa.

Small fish. Not even in the same ballpark. Those are the kind of small fish deals FZ makes all the time.

[reedonly]

Just something that may have slipped under the radar. Minnesota was in on Correa initially and backed off after the Giants backed off. Boras called the Twins and told them they needed to increase their offer and they paused. The Athletic reported that on Sept 20, Correa made a hard slide into second base and lay on the ground for "an extended period" before getting up on his own. He said that he hit the plate in his leg and he felt numb and vibrating. The Mets did their own physical and found no issues but I believe there is something legitimate to the Giants' concern. It looks bad public relations wise but it now looks a lot better when more details come up, especially since the initial reports were from Boras.

I was reading where Peter Angelos would have the most stringent physicals in baseball which would pick at issues a lot more closely than the average MLB team. Turns out more often than not that the things the Orioles' medical team found ended up actually happening. I am not wishing anything bad to happen to Correa but considering what the Giants found, its possible. As I mentioned before, the Giants employ some of the best orthopedic people in the area. Krukow mentioned that the medical team was excited to get Correa but were crushed when the medical issue arose. Best case scenario for CC is that nothing happens, worst case scenario is that he blows out his ankle. Most likely scenario is that his career becomes similar to Tommy LaStella's. After a few days of re-consideration, I think Boagie is correct to not like the deal and while I"m disappointed that they botched up the off-season, I get the feeling that Correa would not have moved the needle much in 2023 and by 2027, I think he will have difficulty playing in the field.

[klaiggeb]

Dec 24, 2022 10:15:48 GMT -5 reedonly said:

Just something that may have slipped under the radar. Minnesota was in on Correa initially and backed off after the Giants backed off. Boras called the Twins and told them they needed to increase their offer and they paused. The Athletic reported that on Sept 20, Correa made a hard slide into second base and lay on the ground for "an extended period" before getting up on his own. He said that he hit the plate in his leg and he felt numb and vibrating. The Mets did their own physical and found no issues but I believe there is something legitimate to the Giants' concern. It looks bad public relations wise but it now looks a lot better when more details come up, especially since the initial reports were from Boras.

I was reading where Peter Angelos would have the most stringent physicals in baseball which would pick at issues a lot more closely than the average MLB team. Turns out more often than not that the things the Orioles' medical team found ended up actually happening. I am not wishing anything bad to happen to Correa but considering what the Giants found, its possible. As I mentioned before, the Giants employ some of the best orthopedic people in the area. Krukow mentioned that the medical team was excited to get Correa but were crushed when the medical issue arose. Best case scenario for CC is that nothing happens, worst case scenario is that he blows out his ankle. Most likely scenario is that his career becomes similar to Tommy LaStella's. After a few days of re-consideration, I think Boagie is correct to not like the deal and while I"m disappointed that they botched up the off-season, I get the feeling that Correa would not have moved the needle much in 2023 and by 2027, I think he will have difficulty playing in the field.

Thanks for the updated information, Reed. To me, anyway, your report is good to hear.

My complaint was, is and continues to be, we pursued the wrong guy.

Should have been Turner or Swanson.

[reedonly]

Boly: Should have been Turner or Swanson.

If Swanson was that good, we have to wonder why the Braves did not pursue him too hard. He is an elite defender and speedy, but Fansided makes a few points. Swanson strikes out a lot and there are periods in a season where he hits 35% strikeouts when he gets cold. He is a speedy defender now but he doesn't use it to steal bases. Also, a third concern was his throwing arm strength.  With his speed, the arm strength is not an issue but the Braves seem to project it as a problem when his speed and range decreases.  The Braves seem to have been looking at the glass half empty for them to not pursue Swanson. He was their best player in 2022 and they don't have anyone to replace him. Yet, they let him go to the Cubs. Some things are not adding up.

So, Swanson is compared to Semien in baseballreference but his pattern is a lot like Brandon Crawford.  He is faster than Craw but both are streaky.  Braves seem to think he's going to drop off dramatically and quickly and that 2022 was an aberration.  Cubs think that they will get his best.  If the truth is somewhere in the middle, its a big dropoff. 

[reedonly]

Boagie: This was a desperation move by Farhan. It was a move purely to make fans happy and to save his ass.

I'm now hearing a deal of this magnitude has to be signed off by ownership and I think its above FZ's pay scale. FZ is happier dealing with the churn.

[reedonly]

Remember last season when they were trying to sign Trevor Story? Turns out this past off season, he put off surgery on his right UCL until now and will miss a good chunk of 2023. I think fans and the team are upset that he put off the surgery until now so that more of the recovery and rehab time would be on "company time", not on family time. This is the same thing that happened with Longoria last season. I wasn't sad that they did not sign Story last season and this latest incident kind of vindicates that thought.  I am now hearing that a lot of players are preferring to do the rehab and recovery during the season instead of during the offseason when they are vacationing with their families.  I'm not sure if the union is promoting this but it seems to explain what a lot of Giants players approached the last off-season (Belt, LaStella, Longoria, deSclafani) and why three of them are no longer with the team.