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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 2:01:53 GMT -5
Post by Islandboagie on Dec 14, 2022 2:01:53 GMT -5
13 years 350 mil.
I cannot remember a dumber move made in Giants history.
Correa hasn't hit .300, he hasn't hit 30 homeruns and he hasn't driven in 100 rbis. Those are three things I would expect a player to do consistently for getting that kind of contract, Correa has never done ANY of those.
For Judge I could see a contract like that. Not for Correa.
This was a desperation move by Farhan. It was a move purely to make fans happy and to save his ass. But in my opinion it probably guaranteed he will not be here much longer, which is really the only silver lining here.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 5:16:36 GMT -5
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Post by holiday613 on Dec 14, 2022 5:16:36 GMT -5
I have to disagree..For starters the AAV on Correa's is more than 10 million less a year than Judges.Furthermore, SS is a very demanding position and vital in a teams pursuit of success and Carlos is elite there.
I hate these crazy contracts too, but lets face it, we are dealing in an era where if you want to compete in the FA market, you have to pay the going rate..All in all this is a great signing for the team and makes them exponentially better at least for the next few years.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 9:03:10 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 14, 2022 9:03:10 GMT -5
All Gms hate big long term contracts and if we consider the contact in a vacuum, it doesn't look good. Because of body types, Correa may age better than Judge will. Also, more importantly, Correa stabilizes the infield defense. It should help Estrada and Villar now and Luciano and Arteaga in the future.
FZ had to go for Correa because CEO Greg Johnson specifically stated the need to improve shortstop and FZ had the money to do it. Maybe in the future, they can point to this contract and show future free agents that the Giants are willing to pay to go for it and they are more than just leverage. Looking ahead, the team would be more attractive to a FA like SOto or Ohtani with Correa on the team.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 9:19:20 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 14, 2022 9:19:20 GMT -5
I would rather have had Swanson, but I think this is a solid move, and one that desperately needed to be done.
As has been pointed out he solidifies the infield defense, and adds athleticism to the ball club which FZ promised to deliver.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 10:21:56 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 14, 2022 10:21:56 GMT -5
Baggarly said today that the Giants actually wanted to extend the Correa contract out to 15 years to decrease the hit on the AAV but felt they could not sneak it by the commisioner's office and Boras would not like them decreasing the present day value of the money. A 13 year contract is mind boggling. I'm not sure where I'm going to be at the end of the contract.
Baggarly also recognizes that Correa is probably not a top 25 offensive player but has more value with defense and leadership.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 11:04:10 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 14, 2022 11:04:10 GMT -5
Mordy- I hate these crazy contracts too, but lets face it, we are dealing in an era where if you want to compete in the FA market, you have to pay the going rate..All in all this is a great signing for the team and makes them exponentially better at least for the next few years.
Boagie- Offensively it doesn't. Correa has played in Houston and Minnesota, two hitter friendly ballparks, how will that translate to Oracle park? 15-18 hrs, 60-70 rbis maybe..how is the worth 350 mil?
Look at our atrocious pitching staff. Our rotation is made up of Logan Webb and four 5th starters. We are not going to be competitive with that rotation.
So why spend all that money if we're not going to be competitive? This is just going to put us somewhere in the middle where we aren't getting a favorable position in the draft.
Again, it's not my money, I was okay with us getting better, but I don't believe this makes us much better if at all.
I legitimately hope I'm wrong.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 11:11:35 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 14, 2022 11:11:35 GMT -5
Mordy- I hate these crazy contracts too, but lets face it, we are dealing in an era where if you want to compete in the FA market, you have to pay the going rate..All in all this is a great signing for the team and makes them exponentially better at least for the next few years. Boagie- Offensively it doesn't. Correa has played in Houston and Minnesota, two hitter friendly ballparks, how will that translate to Oracle park? 15-18 hrs, 60-70 rbis maybe..how is the worth 350 mil? Look at our atrocious pitching staff. Our rotation is made up of Logan Webb and four 5th starters. We are not going to be competitive with that rotation. So why spend all that money if we're not going to be competitive? This is just going to put us somewhere in the middle where we aren't getting a favorable position in the draft. Again, it's not my money, I was okay with us getting better, but I don't believe this makes us much better if at all. I legitimately hope I'm wrong. Taken by itself, the Correa contract makes me uncomfortable but with Ohtani and Machado coming onto the market in 2023, they are more likely to come to SF with Correa on the club than not.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 11:14:26 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 14, 2022 11:14:26 GMT -5
Furthermore, I don't like forcing Crawford out of his position in his last season. That's a move that doesn't respect a great Giant. Platoon, yes..I get that. But this won't be a platoon situation. Crawford is going to have to learn another position to get playing time.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 11:17:00 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 14, 2022 11:17:00 GMT -5
Boagie, though I do not disagree with you, that he's not likely to hit 20 or plus home runs, he will significantly increase and improve our defense up the middle.
I was a huge Brandon Crawford fan from the first time I saw him, but he no longer has the range he once had.
In all of my years watching shortstops, and that includes some of the scale and Ozzie Smith, Brandon was the most fun shortstop to watch that I have ever seen. Not that he was the best, just the most fun smooth slick, just fun to watch.
I don't like the length of the contract at all, but that seems to be the nonsense we're stuck with these days.
I have thought a lot about our starting staff, and have come to the conclusion that it is above average. Will that be enough to compete? Probably not we needed to do more and we didn't, and for that I would show FZ the door
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 11:23:39 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 14, 2022 11:23:39 GMT -5
Furthermore, I don't like forcing Crawford out of his position in his last season. That's a move that doesn't respect a great Giant. Platoon, yes..I get that. But this won't be a platoon situation. Crawford is going to have to learn another position to get playing time. Brandon has long been one of my favorites, but this is the nature of the game. He's gotten to the point where he no longer possesses the range required to be a top-flight shortstop. I am totally guessing, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him platoon with Villar at third base. When Richie Aurelia got old, he was no longer the starter, went to other teams, and came back as a utility player. I see the same thing happening to brandon. And honestly I'm fine with that. I don't see it as disrespect for a great giant. It's just time for a change, and at his age he has to adjust to that and so do the fans, including me
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 11:31:36 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 14, 2022 11:31:36 GMT -5
I am a big Crawford fan and think he has had a great Giants career. I would think that the Giants brass touched base with Crawford before the Correa signing. Crawford may not like it but it does make the team better. Kuiper said this morning that with the NL now having the DH, Crawford will get his playing time. Also, Correa in the past has been amenable to playing other positions when playing on international teams (with Javy Baez, for example).
Kuiper said that before the Correa signing, he received a lot of texts from "people whose opinion he respects" saying "you guys have to get him" so I think it will work. Kuiper also mentioned that Correa won a lot of the awards in Minnesota such as the equivalent of the Willie Mac Award and the Pohldad Community service award. Kuip realizes that in Minnesota, Correa was a big fish and probably wouldn't monopolize all the awards in a larger market but he checks off any concerns we have about leadership and community.
Note: now there are two lineup slots they don't have to worry about doing the platoon with (Correa and Hanniger).
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 12:17:02 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 14, 2022 12:17:02 GMT -5
Reed- Taken by itself, the Correa contract makes me uncomfortable but with Ohtani and Machado coming onto the market in 2023, they are more likely to come to SF with Correa on the club than not.
Boagie- With the salary cap and the depth of the ownership's pockets, I would say the signing of Correa has done the exact opposite in regards to landing someone like Ohtani. The Giants only got Correa because the Yankees and Dodgers didn't want him that much.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 12:19:28 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 14, 2022 12:19:28 GMT -5
Boly- Brandon has long been one of my favorites, but this is the nature of the game. He's gotten to the point where he no longer possesses the range required to be a top-flight shortstop.
I am totally guessing, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him platoon with Villar at third base.
When Richie Aurelia got old, he was no longer the starter, went to other teams, and came back as a utility player. I see the same thing happening to brandon.
And honestly I'm fine with that. I don't see it as disrespect for a great giant. It's just time for a change, and at his age he has to adjust to that and so do the fans, including me
Boagie- You might be right, but I hope they at least talked to Brandon before making this move.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 12:23:03 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 14, 2022 12:23:03 GMT -5
Reed- Note: now there are two lineup slots they don't have to worry about doing the platoon with (Correa and Hanniger).
Boagie- Both are considered at least somewhat injury prone, so I don't know if that's entirely true.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 16:34:22 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 14, 2022 16:34:22 GMT -5
Furthermore, I don't like forcing Crawford out of his position in his last season. That's a move that doesn't respect a great Giant. Platoon, yes..I get that. But this won't be a platoon situation. Crawford is going to have to learn another position to get playing time. Greg Johnson said this in September: "We're well aware of the shortstops and the person who can hit in the Bronx that's out there." With the season he had in 2022 and this statement, Crawford should have expected this.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 16:38:30 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 14, 2022 16:38:30 GMT -5
Reed- Note: now there are two lineup slots they don't have to worry about doing the platoon with (Correa and Hanniger). Boagie- Both are considered at least somewhat injury prone, so I don't know if that's entirely true. Using Correa occasionally as DH may help with load management and he does not have much lefty/righty differential Hanniger's primary injury was fouling a ball into the dirt which bounced into and ruptured a testicle so that was more of a freak injury. Anyway, there two should be in there pretty much every day.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 16:40:34 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 14, 2022 16:40:34 GMT -5
Furthermore, I don't like forcing Crawford out of his position in his last season. That's a move that doesn't respect a great Giant. Platoon, yes..I get that. But this won't be a platoon situation. Crawford is going to have to learn another position to get playing time. Brandon has long been one of my favorites, but this is the nature of the game. He's gotten to the point where he no longer possesses the range required to be a top-flight shortstop. I am totally guessing, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him platoon with Villar at third base. When Richie Aurelia got old, he was no longer the starter, went to other teams, and came back as a utility player. I see the same thing happening to brandon. And honestly I'm fine with that. I don't see it as disrespect for a great giant. It's just time for a change, and at his age he has to adjust to that and so do the fans, including me when Willie Mays got older, he played 1B often.
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Correa
Dec 14, 2022 20:58:39 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 14, 2022 20:58:39 GMT -5
As I said comments the nature of the game. Age destroys everything and everyone
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Correa
Dec 16, 2022 10:18:16 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 16, 2022 10:18:16 GMT -5
Boagie- You might be right, but I hope they at least talked to Brandon before making this move.
Turns out they didnt talk to Crawford. He was told when everyone else found out. The odd man out might be Villar if they do a Wilmer/Crawford platoon at third. Not happy about this.
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Correa
Dec 16, 2022 10:58:22 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 16, 2022 10:58:22 GMT -5
I'm not concerned with enough playing time, with the DH I believe they can rotate guys around enough so they all get playing time. What I don't like is not consulting Crawford before signing Correa. It shows a lack of respect for the guys that won and gave FZ and Co. the money and flexibility to spend on players like Correa.
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Correa
Dec 16, 2022 11:40:35 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 16, 2022 11:40:35 GMT -5
I'm not concerned with enough playing time, with the DH I believe they can rotate guys around enough so they all get playing time. What I don't like is not consulting Crawford before signing Correa. It shows a lack of respect for the guys that won and gave FZ and Co. the money and flexibility to spend on players like Correa. FZ not showing respect does not surprise me but it is disappointing. Crawford probably realized what would happen in September when Johnson said that they were aware of the shortstops and the front office probably felt that they could do what they wanted to with or without talking to Crawford. FZ is in the younger generation and I guess he would feel that things would be understood. Personally, I would have made the phone call (not text). On his own, Crawford said that this does improve the team and he seems resigned to moving to third or second. whenthegiantscometotown feels he will platoon with Flores at third but and that moves JD Davis to first and Villar shuttling to Sacramento. I think Villar should get major league ABs. Crawford's bat might not be good enough for being a 3B. I'm not sure if this was before people's time but I remember when Willie Mays got older, they fired his manager and friend Herman Franks and replaced him with Clyde King. King made Mays into a 1Bman, took him out of his customary 3 slot in the batting order and batted him leadoff. There was an incident where there was a misunderstanding about Mays playing a game in Houston and King wanted to fine him. Mays was extremely upset (to the point of having mentioned it in his autobiography) and thought King was a backstabber at that point. Point was that this is nothing new in Giants' history, even if you're Willie Mays. More often than not, for other players like McCovey, Marichal, or even more recently Lincecum, it did not end well. A classy sendoff like they had for Buster was probably more of an exception. Getting back to Crawford, in a few years, they will put his plaque on the giants' Wall of Fame and possibly retire his number. He will be okay.
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Correa
Dec 16, 2022 19:27:16 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 16, 2022 19:27:16 GMT -5
I'm not concerned with enough playing time, with the DH I believe they can rotate guys around enough so they all get playing time. What I don't like is not consulting Crawford before signing Correa. It shows a lack of respect for the guys that won and gave FZ and Co. the money and flexibility to spend on players like Correa. It is a TREMENDOUS lack of respect! Then again I see this kind of nonsense se in the NFL, too
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Correa
Dec 16, 2022 19:38:04 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 16, 2022 19:38:04 GMT -5
I'm not concerned with enough playing time, with the DH I believe they can rotate guys around enough so they all get playing time. What I don't like is not consulting Crawford before signing Correa. It shows a lack of respect for the guys that won and gave FZ and Co. the money and flexibility to spend on players like Correa. FZ not showing respect does not surprise me but it is disappointing. Crawford probably realized what would happen in September when Johnson said that they were aware of the shortstops and the front office probably felt that they could do what they wanted to with or without talking to Crawford. FZ is in the younger generation and I guess he would feel that things would be understood. Personally, I would have made the phone call (not text). On his own, Crawford said that this does improve the team and he seems resigned to moving to third or second. whenthegiantscometotown feels he will platoon with Flores at third but and that moves JD Davis to first and Villar shuttling to Sacramento. I think Villar should get major league ABs. Crawford's bat might not be good enough for being a 3B. I'm not sure if this was before people's time but I remember when Willie Mays got older, they fired his manager and friend Herman Franks and replaced him with Clyde King. King made Mays into a 1Bman, took him out of his customary 3 slot in the batting order and batted him leadoff. There was an incident where there was a misunderstanding about Mays playing a game in Houston and King wanted to fine him. Mays was extremely upset (to the point of having mentioned it in his autobiography) and thought King was a backstabber at that point. Point was that this is nothing new in Giants' history, even if you're Willie Mays. More often than not, for other players like McCovey, Marichal, or even more recently Lincecum, it did not end well. A classy sendoff like they had for Buster was probably more of an exception. Getting back to Crawford, in a few years, they will put his plaque on the giants' Wall of Fame and possibly retire his number. He will be okay. I do remember that! So I was living in Southern California at the time, I was not aware that Willie was Furious at what had happened, until I read a year or so back his autobiography. It is just my opinion, but I don't believe Crawford's bad is good enough to play Third base, and screwing over Villar like this is absolutely ridiculous! The kid did everything needed to earn a job, and to hose him over just ticks me off. I get that it's business, but these are people, not objects. This is just one more thing that validates my opinion of changing of my opinion about FZ
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Correa
Dec 17, 2022 10:27:20 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Dec 17, 2022 10:27:20 GMT -5
If they don’t send Villar back to Sacramento, he will be in the outfield mix, also. He won PCL mvp so he deserves to stay with the big club and play regularly.
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Correa
Dec 17, 2022 10:29:52 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Dec 17, 2022 10:29:52 GMT -5
FZ and Kapler called him immediately after Correa signing and informed Crawford of their plan. Better than nothing, I guess, but not the way I would have gone about it.
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Correa
Dec 17, 2022 14:35:16 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Dec 17, 2022 14:35:16 GMT -5
FZ and Kapler called him immediately after Correa signing and informed Crawford of their plan. Better than nothing, I guess, but not the way I would have gone about it. Hopefully he's a better outfielder than he is a 3B man.
He was unsteady on TOO many ground balls, and he's really not tall enough to be a 1B man.
Still, he appears to have the bat and power to be a good player
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Correa
Dec 17, 2022 18:28:48 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Dec 17, 2022 18:28:48 GMT -5
FZ and Kapler called him immediately after Correa signing and informed Crawford of their plan. Better than nothing, I guess, but not the way I would have gone about it. Hopefully he's a better outfielder than he is a 3B man.
He was unsteady on TOO many ground balls, and he's really not tall enough to be a 1B man.
Still, he appears to have the bat and power to be a good playerMaybe Villar seems short, he's only one inch shorter than Snow or Clark and 2 inches shorter than Belt.
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Correa
Dec 17, 2022 20:09:45 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Dec 17, 2022 20:09:45 GMT -5
Huh. I would have bet the guy was 5'8" or 5'9"
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Correa
Dec 21, 2022 2:19:02 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 21, 2022 2:19:02 GMT -5
Apparently something of concern came up during Correa's physical. Anyone want to bet it's PEDs?
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Correa
Dec 21, 2022 5:45:21 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Dec 21, 2022 5:45:21 GMT -5
Well, this was a stunning turn of events. I'm pretty sure we will not find out what happened anytime soon because of HIPAA and because of the way FZ' doublespeak.
The way I think it happened was that FZ was never really comfortable with having to make the deal. Then the Giants' medical staff found something. We may never know what they found or if objections were made by medical staff or non-medical staff. What I believe unfolded was at that point, the Giants tried to back out of the contract based on the findings by the medical staff and tried to re-negotiate the deal. CC and Boras got insulted and then said "seeya".
In the very long term, I think the Giants may have dodged a bullet. The Giants' medical team is not a made up of a bunch of quacks and they use some of the best orthopedic doctors in the area so if they found something, it was not something minor. Also, the contract he signed for with the Mets is $45 million lower than the one initially offered by the Giants so the Mets took that into account. The medical issue the Giants medical staff saw was not low risk if the Mets offered that much less.
Short term, what was supposed to be a pivotal off season for the team is a total train wreck and will impact the team for years to come. The way they place all their eggs into one basket for Judge and for Correa shows they cannot move to plan B when they needed to. I think with or without Correa, the team would have had to struggle to make the playoffs but there is reason to be suspicious of the way the Giants do business. Even though no one is saying it outright, the turn of events feels a lot like the way FZ does things and there is reason to think that he was the one who caused the deal to fall through. Future free agents will be on the lookout for any sort of treachery from FZ. I feel that now is the time for him to fall on his sword.
Of course, any day now, I will expect Brandon Belt to pass his physical.
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