Gee...

[klaiggeb]

So we signed Mannea, or however you spell it.

Just what we needed, another guy on the mound with an era near five.

This is not an upgrade, this is just another guy, another body, filling a slot.

[reedonly]

Actually, I think its a good one. I mentioned on another thread that free agent pitchers are a lot riskier than position players. I'm not sure where I've read it but it was felt that he pitched as well in San Diego as he had in Oakland and baseball reference stats seem to indicate that. His HR% ticked up a bit in 2022 but other stats seem in line with career levels. This is much more preferable than signing Rodon for seven years and having buyer's remorse for six out of those seven years.

[klaiggeb]

Dec 12, 2022 10:35:20 GMT -5 reedonly said:

Actually, I think its a good one. I mentioned on another thread that free agent pitchers are a lot riskier than position players. I'm not sure where I've read it but it was felt that he pitched as well in San Diego as he had in Oakland and baseball reference stats seem to indicate that. His HR% ticked up a bit in 2022 but other stats seem in line with career levels. This is much more preferable than signing Rodon for seven years and having buyer's remorse for six out of those seven years.

You and I don't disagree often, Reed, but this is one of those times.

Career ERA of OVER 4

4.95 ERA last year.

I don't care the kind of potential he has nor about the stuff he has.

The fact is, he was allowing nearly 5 runs a game last year, and his career ERA us below average.

Consider:

DesClafani's life time ERA is 4.12, and Alex Wood is 3.69! And that's after last year's debacle!

Sorry, but this guy is just filling a slot.

Signing him, basically a home grown guy since he played in Oakland is nothing more than signing a face that fans know to fill seats.

And I contend it's a 1/2 assed move at that.

Give me Rodon and his ridiculous contract

[reedonly]

Here is the way I look at the deal. Manaea is not replacing Rodon because his contract is half the size of Rodon's 2022 contract and I believe the intent is for Manaea to push one of either Junis or Wood into the bullpen or to take DeSclafani's starts if he is unable to go. Manaea's 2022 stats (Whip, OBP, etc) are about the same as they were in the past except for uptick in walks and home runs. Giants feel they can tweak his delivery to get the walks down. Manaea's numbers are skewed because of bad outings against the Dodgers.

I believe you are looking at Manaea as the replacement for Rodon. You are right that he is just filling a slot but they are not paying him to be Rodon. They are paying him to be better than Alex Wood. Manaea might benefit from the way the Giants refurbish pitchers so it might work for him, also. Baseball reference projects a 4.00 ERA for Manaea in 2023 and I think that's a reasonable estimate.  I would ideally slot him as a #4 starter but the way the Giants and deSclafani usually roll, he'll end up as a #3.

[reedonly]

Krukow was saying this morning that the signing was good because he could see that Manaea had mechanical issues last season which could be fixed by the Giants' pitching coaches. When Manaea goes well, his delivery is smooth and the pitch has a nasty bite on the end. He also mentioned that this move was made with the bullpen in mind. If they move Wood, Hjelle, or Junis to the pen, they could go through a lineup once and thus save some wear and tear on the rest of the pen.

If you are looking at Manaea as THE move, then the offseason is a failure.  They clearly still have work to do and Manaea has work to do to fix himself. 

[klaiggeb]

Dec 13, 2022 9:21:33 GMT -5 reedonly said:

Here is the way I look at the deal. Manaea is not replacing Rodon because his contract is half the size of Rodon's 2022 contract and I believe the intent is for Manaea to push one of either Junis or Wood into the bullpen or to take DeSclafani's starts if he is unable to go. Manaea's 2022 stats (Whip, OBP, etc) are about the same as they were in the past except for uptick in walks and home runs. Giants feel they can tweak his delivery to get the walks down. Manaea's numbers are skewed because of bad outings against the Dodgers.

I believe you are looking at Manaea as the replacement for Rodon. You are right that he is just filling a slot but they are not paying him to be Rodon. They are paying him to be better than Alex Wood. Manaea might benefit from the way the Giants refurbish pitchers so it might work for him, also. Baseball reference projects a 4.00 ERA for Manaea in 2023 and I think that's a reasonable estimate.  I would ideally slot him as a #4 starter but the way the Giants and deSclafani usually roll, he'll end up as a #3.

No, not looking at him as a replacement at all.

We won't sign a guy that good.

I did EXPECT someone better than DesClafani or Wood.

Ooops. boly. Wrong again.

[reedonly]

Boly: Give me Rodon and his ridiculous contract


I remember this past year, we would waffle about wanting Rodon or not. He is a competitor but he has a significant injury history. The seven year contract he wants is a non-starter

[klaiggeb]

I did not want him back, but the way things began to unfold during this off season I wanted somebody that could win some games and I would have settled for him because we really haven't done anything substantial to upgrade our pitching staff.

I am okay to moderately pleased with Stripling, but we really needed a Top Flight starter. And we did not get one. Thus my renewed desire for Carlos Rodon

[reedonly]

Dec 14, 2022 11:09:59 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

I did not want him back, but the way things began to unfold during this off season I wanted somebody that could win some games and I would have settled for him because we really haven't done anything substantial to upgrade our pitching staff.

I am okay to moderately pleased with Stripling, but we really needed a Top Flight starter. And we did not get one. Thus my renewed desire for Carlos Rodon

We have to be careful with Rodon because of who his agent is.  Boras is going to hype up his clients no matter what.  I am thinking Rodon is actually going to regress this season as NL West becomes more accustomed to him.  We are all excited about Rodon now much in the same way we were amped up about trying to get Stroman and Ray last season.  Because he's a pitcher and because of his injury history, he can ask all he wants for a seven year contract that no one (including the Yankees) wants to give him. 

[klaiggeb]

All good points. I think I was interested mostly because I want to be able to compete for a playoff/World Series spot this season.

And the more I think about it, even rodon wouldn't get us to that point

[reedonly]

Yankees and Cardinals have backed off from Rodon's seven year asking price.

[klaiggeb]

The yankees backing off actually surprises me.

It would be nice to see his agent overestimating the market, and Carlos getting far less in either years or dollars then he was hoping for.

[reedonly]

Giants are probably out unless they can unload one of their other starters. The payroll is now at $190 million and the first CBT tier is $206 million.

[klaiggeb]

From what I continue to read, starting pitching at this point is not a priority.

I still say we need a center fielder, and we need bullpen help to set up for our closer

[Islandboagie]

I'd be surprised if there's another significant move made. It's all gonna be dumpster diving now. Which is why I don't like the Correa signing.

[reedonly]

Surprisingly the Yankees gave Rodon six years

[reedonly]

Dec 15, 2022 23:49:59 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

I'd be surprised if there's another significant move made. It's all gonna be dumpster diving now. Which is why I don't like the Correa signing.

They are head first into the dumpster because they are talking with Casali. I think there are better options available.

[reedonly]

Boly: Give me Rodon and his ridiculous contract

Talkin Yanks heard from an insider that Rodon might not pitch at all this season but Rodon's wife says its not true.

[klaiggeb]

I had read that he is now in the 2nd of his injury problems.

We might have dodged a massive bullet with this one!

[reedonly]

Rodon has developed a new back problem in addition to a forearm strain. The best guess is that he would return by June but backs can be tricky.