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Post by holiday613 on Dec 11, 2022 3:16:17 GMT -5
So much like Sabean, Farhan seems find of kicking the tires while one elite free agent after another disappears.Some could argue that the Giants did make a legit run at Judge but i would counter that they didnt do enough..Personally im happy they didnt throw all that money at Judge since I anticipate him having an injury riddled career but its still infuriating to see the Giants not do anything.
Hanniger isnt an elite player..Correa/Swanson are..They better sign both of them!!
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Post by reedonly on Dec 11, 2022 10:50:50 GMT -5
I think there is something very wrong with the way they handle negotiations. I'm not sure if it is stingy ownership or incompetence of the negotiating team. It seems like the style is to let the market come to the Giants or that there is a tendency to draw a line in the sand and not budge past it. Also, they seem to not be allowed to have a last, best counter offer. What I'm hearing most locally is that FAs do not feel that the Giants have a sustainable organization in place because the minor leagues are not productive enough to provide a good enough supporting cast.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 11, 2022 10:55:48 GMT -5
So much like Sabean, Farhan seems find of kicking the tires while one elite free agent after another disappears.Some could argue that the Giants did make a legit run at Judge but i would counter that they didnt do enough..Personally im happy they didnt throw all that money at Judge since I anticipate him having an injury riddled career but its still infuriating to see the Giants not do anything. Hanniger isnt an elite player..Correa/Swanson are..They better sign both of them!! They did not do enough but most of the comments I've read in NY press actually thought they overspent and that Judge's big body type may not age well. I guess we will find out in about three years. I actually was more upset that they lost out on Nimmo and Senga. I had a feeling that when they said the meeting with Senga went well, he was just being polite and that he would not like San Francisco. I guess the Giants did not know that Flushing (where the Mets actually play) has a gigantic Asian community (also known as "Chinese Manhattan") and I would not expect them to be diligent enough to know that. That kind of vibrant multi-ethnic community would suit Senga a lot better. The Giants cannot throw San Francisco's Chinatown and Japantown up there and use that as any sort of enticement to a Japanese player and if they did that (which they most likely did), it would just show them that they are ignorant. By the way, when I visited Japan, travel agents usually do not promote SF. It's usually Hawaii, Los Angeles, Vegas, and New York. |
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Post by holiday613 on Dec 11, 2022 18:27:34 GMT -5
Good points Reed..The secret is out and the Giants are just being used as a negotiating chip for free agents, and the agents know it..I totally agree with you with respect to ownership not being able to close deals.If our minor league system was ramping that would be one thing, but aside from 2-3 prospects, our minor league prospects took a huge step backwards which is problematic. We had the financial flexibility to really upgrade the team and we just about blew it .Only signing a trio of Rodon, Correia and Swanson would change my mind, but at the rate we are going, we would be fortunate to sign one of them!!
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 12, 2022 9:36:51 GMT -5
Is my point exactly, holiday.
I am betting we don't sign any of those 3,Leaving us with an agent shortstop, who was long past his prime at the plate
Way to go front office! Way to go!
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Post by reedonly on Dec 12, 2022 10:48:50 GMT -5
I think the plan now is to offer contracts that look big enough to give the fanbase the appearance that they are not being idle but not to exceed a certain point. In other words, they will offer Correa a contract big enough to look like they are being engaged but not big enough to close the deal. Then they can say that they were in on Judge, Correa, Nimmo, Senga but some other team managed to outbid them at the last second.
I am now thinking that the FZ's plan is to ride out Crawford for the last year of his contract, go with Luciano (ETA 2023) for a couple of years, then use Arteaga as the eventual replacement for Crawford in 2025. Note that this goes against Greg Johnson's exit interview which mentioned that SS is a priority. I feel that signing Correa or Swanson is not going to block the youngsters because I still feel that they do not like Luciano as a SS and by the time Arteaga is ready, the free agent might be too old to play that position. The way FZ churns for values is too ingrained in him and I think that is why he cannot close a big deal. He may have one eye on the big deal but the heart and the other eye is on the cheap stuff.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 12, 2022 15:16:24 GMT -5
I think the plan now is to offer contracts that look big enough to give the fanbase the appearance that they are not being idle but not to exceed a certain point. In other words, they will offer Correa a contract big enough to look like they are being engaged but not big enough to close the deal. Then they can say that they were in on Judge, Correa, Nimmo, Senga but some other team managed to outbid them at the last second. I am now thinking that the FZ's plan is to ride out Crawford for the last year of his contract, go with Luciano (ETA 2023) for a couple of years, then use Arteaga as the eventual replacement for Crawford in 2025. Note that this goes against Greg Johnson's exit interview which mentioned that SS is a priority. I feel that signing Correa or Swanson is not going to block the youngsters because I still feel that they do not like Luciano as a SS and by the time Arteaga is ready, the free agent might be too old to play that position. The way FZ churns for values is too ingrained in him and I think that is why he cannot close a big deal. He may have one eye on the big deal but the heart and the other eye is on the cheap stuff.
Not.
The fans want a winner, and this team has ZERO chance of even making a play off spot without at least Correa or Swanson AND a dominant pitcher.
You're right; signing either Correa or Swanson blocks NO ONE. We aren't even sure of those kids can play at this level!
I agree about your thoughts on FZ: it's too ingrained in him... What a jackass!
and once again, as I keep beating to death, the fans take it up the wally wally.
Believing one word out of FZ's mouth is like believing the liberal media.
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Post by holiday613 on Dec 12, 2022 21:24:09 GMT -5
We better sign Correa or Swanson along with Rodon or else the fans should boycott this cheap ass management
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Post by reedonly on Dec 13, 2022 8:58:00 GMT -5
A big reason why they went after Judge so hard in the first place was for attendance. They wanted a marquee player as an attraction. I disagree with that because an exciting, winning team is a much bigger draw than a guy who would be getting IBB all the time. Because of Covid, the downturn in the area, and less corporate tickets, people are staying away. Fans essentially are staying away more than before. I personally do not go to Oracle because of all the drunken fools around there and because of the Covid risk so a boycott of sorts is on.
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 13, 2022 13:06:07 GMT -5
Mordy- We better sign Correa or Swanson along with Rodon or else the fans should boycott this cheap ass management
Boagie- I'd rather they didn't sign any of them. Rodon isn't going to be an effective ace pitcher against other aces in a post season series. And signing the other two isn't going to benefit us until we have a roster that can compete, and a lineup that can protect them. I'd prefer we wait until our young players develop and THEN fill in the pieces. Right now we're just treading water with some albatross contracts and poor management, the addition of some big name free agents isn't going to change that.
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Post by holiday613 on Dec 13, 2022 13:36:06 GMT -5
Looks like Farhan took your advice as we just signed Stripling to the same identical contract we gave Mannea
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 13, 2022 14:00:26 GMT -5
Mordy- We better sign Correa or Swanson along with Rodon or else the fans should boycott this cheap ass management Boagie- I'd rather they didn't sign any of them. Rodon isn't going to be an effective ace pitcher against other aces in a post season series. And signing the other two isn't going to benefit us until we have a roster that can compete, and a lineup that can protect them. I'd prefer we wait until our young players develop and THEN fill in the pieces. Right now we're just treading water with some albatross contracts and poor management, the addition of some big name free agents isn't going to change that.
We NEED, desperately, either Swanson or Correa. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 13, 2022 14:01:40 GMT -5
Looks like Farhan took your advice as we just signed Stripling to the same identical contract we gave Mannea |
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Post by reedonly on Dec 13, 2022 16:24:51 GMT -5
Looks like Farhan took your advice as we just signed Stripling to the same identical contract we gave Mannea the knock on Stripling was that he was not Kershaw, Buehler, or Urias. He is a decent signing but, again, not a second ace. Stripling is not a second ace but right now, he slots in at #2. If they sign another pitcher and push everyone back a slot position, this might work. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 13, 2022 18:36:32 GMT -5
Looks like Farhan took your advice as we just signed Stripling to the same identical contract we gave Mannea the knock on Stripling was that he was not Kershaw, Buehler, or Urias. He is a decent signing but, again, not a second ace. Stripling is not a second ace but right now, he slots in at #2. If they sign another pitcher and push everyone back a slot position, this might work.
I remember him.
He's better than Wood, better than DesClafani, and though he's really only a # 3 or 4 guy, he beats the daylights out of having Junis in the rotation.
As does Manea. |
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 14, 2022 2:11:29 GMT -5
Junis was probably better than Manaea last year.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 14, 2022 9:14:34 GMT -5
Manaea seemed to have trouble specifically against the Dodgers. When one looks at the spilts, his games against the Dodgers are the massive outlyers and skews his numbers. I'm not thrilled that they have just picked up another guy that has trouble against the Dodgers but the signing is adequate insurance if deSclafani cannot answer the bell and slots Wood and Junis into more appropriate places in the rotation. I think that they are planning to use Junis in the Yusmeiro Petit/Mota role where he comes in after the starter, goes one time through the lineup, and conserves the bullpen. This is not quite the "opener" strategy but if the starter has trouble, the long reliever can help save the wear and tear on the pen.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 14, 2022 9:21:06 GMT -5
The great call, Reed, and that is how I would use Junis also.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 15, 2022 10:59:27 GMT -5
Holiday613: Personally im happy they didnt throw all that money at Judge
Hunter Pence agrees with you. He says it is a close call between the Correa moves and Judge but he feels Correa + Stripling + Manaea will have a better baseball impact.
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Post by reedonly on Dec 21, 2022 10:05:56 GMT -5
I think the plan now is to offer contracts that look big enough to give the fanbase the appearance that they are not being idle but not to exceed a certain point. In other words, they will offer Correa a contract big enough to look like they are being engaged but not big enough to close the deal. Then they can say that they were in on Judge, Correa, Nimmo, Senga but some other team managed to outbid them at the last second. I am now thinking that the FZ's plan is to ride out Crawford for the last year of his contract, go with Luciano (ETA 2023) for a couple of years, then use Arteaga as the eventual replacement for Crawford in 2025. Note that this goes against Greg Johnson's exit interview which mentioned that SS is a priority. I feel that signing Correa or Swanson is not going to block the youngsters because I still feel that they do not like Luciano as a SS and by the time Arteaga is ready, the free agent might be too old to play that position. The way FZ churns for values is too ingrained in him and I think that is why he cannot close a big deal. He may have one eye on the big deal but the heart and the other eye is on the cheap stuff.
Not.
The fans want a winner, and this team has ZERO chance of even making a play off spot without at least Correa or Swanson AND a dominant pitcher.
You're right; signing either Correa or Swanson blocks NO ONE. We aren't even sure of those kids can play at this level!
I agree about your thoughts on FZ: it's too ingrained in him... What a jackass!
and once again, as I keep beating to death, the fans take it up the wally wally.
Believing one word out of FZ's mouth is like believing the liberal media.
I think it was FZ who torpedoed the Correa deal. Slusser said it was the Giants who pulled out after they found issues with Correa's physical. The way things progressed feels too much like FZ's fingerprints are all over it. Boras credited Greg JOhnson for getting the Correa deal done so I don't think it was ownership. |
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Post by reedonly on Dec 21, 2022 16:38:28 GMT -5
Mordy- We better sign Correa or Swanson along with Rodon or else the fans should boycott this cheap ass management Boagie- I'd rather they didn't sign any of them. Rodon isn't going to be an effective ace pitcher against other aces in a post season series. And signing the other two isn't going to benefit us until we have a roster that can compete, and a lineup that can protect them. I'd prefer we wait until our young players develop and THEN fill in the pieces. Right now we're just treading water with some albatross contracts and poor management, the addition of some big name free agents isn't going to change that. Boagie, I think they will have to go that route if they are smart. I would like to see Villar and others get some regular work. The problem is that I don't think they're going to go that route. It would not be a stretch to see them making a bunch of stupid panic signings (AJ Pollock, for example) and plugging holes with Donovan Walton. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 21, 2022 20:11:45 GMT -5
Holy crap, I sincerely hope you are wrong!
But somehow I have this sinking feeling, that you are not wrong.
Consider the idiot we have running the show. And by calling FZ an idiot, I'm being kind
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Post by reedonly on Dec 21, 2022 21:48:44 GMT -5
Holy crap, I sincerely hope you are wrong! But somehow I have this sinking feeling, that you are not wrong. Consider the idiot we have running the show. And by calling FZ an idiot, I'm being kind Batting fourth: Wil Myers |
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Post by Islandboagie on Dec 21, 2022 23:00:47 GMT -5
Reed- I think they will have to go that route if they are smart. I would like to see Villar and others get some regular work. The problem is that I don't think they're going to go that route. It would not be a stretch to see them making a bunch of stupid panic signings (AJ Pollock, for example) and plugging holes with Donovan Walton.
Boagie- I hope for the next year or two, we really see what we have in our prospects, while filling in some holes with veterans who know how to win. We aren't a favorable spot for big name free agent, we need to accept that and build from the ground up. The good part is we have some young arms that could potentially be frontline starters. Once we get those kids in place we can build from there.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 22, 2022 9:50:21 GMT -5
It's not that I disagree. I do agree. The kids needed to play last year, And they were held back because they hadn't progressed far enough To deserve a shot with a big club.
Unless we play a ton of kids, this year is not going to be fun to watch it all.
And if Reed's joke about wil Meyer's batting forth comes true, Well that will be one sad day for giants fans
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Post by reedonly on Dec 22, 2022 13:02:50 GMT -5
It's not that I disagree. I do agree. The kids needed to play last year, And they were held back because they hadn't progressed far enough To deserve a shot with a big club. Unless we play a ton of kids, this year is not going to be fun to watch it all. And if Reed's joke about wil Meyer's batting forth comes true, Well that will be one sad day for giants fans Its not quite a joke. There is talk about who is left to pivot towards and the names of Pollack, Conforto, and Myers keep popping up. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 22, 2022 14:22:45 GMT -5
Swell!
I really thought you were joking. Just we need another old guy on them roster
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Post by reedonly on Dec 22, 2022 15:33:37 GMT -5
On one hand, you should be relieved that Myers signed with the Reds. On the other hand, Belt, Longoria, and Hosmer are still unsigned.
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 22, 2022 18:33:22 GMT -5
On one hand, you should be relieved that Myers signed with the Reds. On the other hand, Belt, Longoria, and Hosmer are still unsigned.
Belt I'm betting stays with us.
I don't want Hosmer, no how, no way.
He simply is not the hitter he was with KC |
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 22, 2022 18:33:48 GMT -5
and I don't want Longoria either!
But of course, General Lipservice will sign him.
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