Didn't have to be

[klaiggeb]

I take exception to what Kapler did with the pitching staff yesterday.

Big exception!

That game did not have to be a bullpen game. Just didn't.

With a double header on Thursday, he wasted arms that didn't have to happen.

To me, it made, and still makes, much more sense to call up Hjelle, or another AAA to start the game.

When a team HASN'T faced a pitcher before, it takes a while to adjust.

I claim we had a decent chance to get 3... maybe 4 innings out of a AAA guy.

And even if we didn't, we would still be better off than what Kapler did.

From day 1 I have questioned the way he handles a staff, and this season, though he has been hampered by TERRIBLE seasons by so many down there, a lot of what went wrong sits squarely in his lap.

BFF could have save him by actually GETTING an arm or two, but mismanagement of the staff was a killer.

And now, because of it, we stand to lose 4 straight; This afternoon, yesterday, and a double header to Milwaukee because we'll have no arms left to pitch.

[reedonly]

Hjelle went only two innings Sunday so he could have gone. Krukow said yesterday that bullpen games are risky because all it takes is one pitcher to have a bad day and the risk for that is greater when you use more arms.

[klaiggeb]

I understand, but it's not like they did not know a bolt pen game was coming.

They could have held Sean out of that start, and had it ready to start for San Francisco.

Decisions like this one are what confused a living daylight Saturday about Gabe Kaplar the San Francisco giant management as a whole.

They continue to claim that they think through every possibility, using all the data and whatnot, but I think Gabe is so hung up in the modern concept of using an opener, that he can't see beyond that moment.

He seems to be of the ilk that if it's old thinking, it's bad thinking. I think his thinking is bad thinking.

[reedonly]

We had a poster here who really liked Farhan and really liked using his designer stats. If you look on the "I'm Confused" thread which talked about deSclafani for about two months, you will see that the old thinking works. Old thinking is the sum of what people have learned over the years. New thinking might provide an occasional edge but it is unproven.

I was confused about the use of Hjelle. They held him to two innings on Sunday in anticipation for this week. He's on the 40 man roster so they didn't have to make a corresponding move.  For now, wins and losses are not important, its more important to get young players some major league exposure.  If not now, then when?

In past years, they could bring up a dugout full of young players.  They feel they are now hamstrung with a 14 pitcher limit and 28 man roster.  I'm not sure how this play into this because I wouldn't mind sending a guy like LIttell down and bring up Hjelle or Szapucki for spot starts.   They get an extra player for the doubleheader but when the bullpen is fatigued, bullpen games are worse than useless.  

[klaiggeb]

Sept 8, 2022 9:24:55 GMT -5 reedonly said:

We had a poster here who really liked Farhan and really liked using his designer stats. If you look on the "I'm Confused" thread which talked about deSclafani for about two months, you will see that the old thinking works. Old thinking is the sum of what people have learned over the years. New thinking might provide an occasional edge but it is unproven.

I was confused about the use of Hjelle. They held him to two innings on Sunday in anticipation for this week. He's on the 40 man roster so they didn't have to make a corresponding move.  For now, wins and losses are not important, its more important to get young players some major league exposure.  If not now, then when?

In past years, they could bring up a dugout full of young players.  They feel they are now hamstrung with a 14 pitcher limit and 28 man roster.  I'm not sure how this play into this because I wouldn't mind sending a guy like LIttell down and bring up Hjelle or Szapucki for spot starts.   They get an extra player for the doubleheader but when the bullpen is fatigued, bullpen games are worse than useless.  

I remember THAT discussion all too well, Reed!

Good to see you are as confused as I am.

I just don't get this group. Not at all.

And you summed up OLD THINKING perfectly1 I IS THE SUM of what people have learned.

Carelessly discarding it and booting it out the front door is foolish beyond measure!

Which pretty much sums up what I see in most 'modern' baseball leaders and philosophy

[reedonly]

The thing about "old thinking" or "gut feeling" is that its not just a hunch or intuition. For a manager like Bochy, he's done all sorts of things so many times that things look like a reflex even though he's been doing it for decades. Its kind of like avoiding driving into certain spots. It is a bad idea, you've avoided driving into bad spots for years, and now, you drive reflexively to avoid getting into those situations.

For the giants to try to avoid bullpen games, bullpen games are a bad idea. Our first reflex based on experience is to avoid them but when we think about it, its to save a fatigued bullpen and odds are against having every single pitcher that comes in will do well, no matter what the spreadsheet says. there are decades of baseball history that say why it is not a good idea, even if you have an opener and then flip to a starter type.

Maybe the reason why the Giants did well in 2021 and not so well in 2022 was that the last "old thinker" retired in 2021. Maybe it was an "old thinker" like Ron Wotus who kept things under control.

When we had that discussion about deSclafani, the one poster was trying to use designer stats to prove his point and the rest of us knew it was a bad idea to rely on him as a #2 starter but I think we could not put into words why. In retrospect, now we can say why. He has missed significant time in his career with injury and he has had tremendous difficulty in the most important games. A pitcher like deSclafani appeals to the "new thinker" because he accumulated good stats in 2021 but boagie was correct in saying that deSclafani would be a drag on the team for 3 years. He's not blocking anyone but he is taking up space and resources.  That signing grades out as an F so far because they knew he was injured and paying all that much for five crappy starts (!?!).  When a pitcher spends the whole season in street clothes, that is not a number 2.   What I heard from Krukow last season was that if you threw out his numbers against the Dodgers, he had ace type stats.  Well, if you throw out the Giants' games against the Dodgers this season, they'd have a winning record.  You have to be careful about which stats you want to hang your hat on 

[reedonly]

I'm not sure why Littell is on the Giants when they could use his spot for Hjelle, Zupucki, or Waites.

[klaiggeb]

I don't know either.

That guy is a gas can just waiting to be dumped on a fire.

[reedonly]

Right now, it doesn’t matter as much if they win or lose but there are some things that are more important. I’ve already mentioned September being a time when young talent needs mlb experience. For some players playing for contracts, it’s time to buff up the stat line. For others, it’s as simple as keeping healthy. Ask Jake McGee. Every decision needs to have one eye on the future .

[reedonly]

Boly: To me, it made, and still makes, much more sense to call up Hjelle, or another AAA to start the game.

whenthegiantscometotown said that Hjelle's fastball yesterday was a bit faster and he now has a new slider. Even thought the rest of the Giants were sleepwalking, Hjelle, Ortiz, and Alexander did well.

[klaiggeb]

Sleepwalking comma yeah comma that sums it up period I can only imagine what they will look like today in Chicago after a double header and then an immediate flight

[reedonly]

Sept 9, 2022 8:39:58 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

Sleepwalking comma yeah comma that sums it up period I can only imagine what they will look like today in Chicago after a double header and then an immediate flight

Milwaukee to Chicago is a quick drive so should be a quick flight. 

[reedonly]

Sept 8, 2022 17:05:46 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

I don't know either.

That guy is a gas can just waiting to be dumped on a fire.

Littell probably is one of those who disrespects Kapler and it showed the other day.  Kapler deserves disrespect but LIttell is pitching so poorly this season that he may just sealed his fate.