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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 28, 2022 22:16:47 GMT -5
I just heard on the pregame show that management has given a vote of confidence to the players saying they're not gonna be sellers
In my opinion this is stupid beyond belief
At the end of the season Carlos rodon and Pederson are going to walk.
And with what our general manager said we're going to get hosed and get nothing!
Thinking this team as any chance to advance in the playoffs is, to me idiotic beyond belief!
In the meantime, I am sitting here doing something I never thought I would do; rooting for our guys to lose.
I'm guessing that's the only way we can stop our general manager from standing pat!
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Post by holiday613 on Jul 29, 2022 5:17:16 GMT -5
Feel the same way Boly.. Losing is the only way to stop a desperate Farhan from trying to save face and destroy the team from within.. Anyone with a pair of eyes , can see that we are weak in sonmany facets of the game that even the great Soto wouldnt make a dent.. Just a dumb team trying to pull the wool over the eyes of its fans, ince again
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Post by reedonly on Jul 29, 2022 10:07:57 GMT -5
Boly: I'm guessing that's the only way we can stop our general manager from standing pat!
Standing pat would be good if they have any ideas about using prospects to buy a rental.
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Post by reedonly on Jul 29, 2022 10:36:48 GMT -5
Feel the same way Boly.. Losing is the only way to stop a desperate Farhan from trying to save face and destroy the team from within.. Anyone with a pair of eyes , can see that we are weak in sonmany facets of the game that even the great Soto wouldnt make a dent.. Just a dumb team trying to pull the wool over the eyes of its fans, ince again I think the ones at fault are the ownership group. Neukom was CEO when the Giants won their first championship in 2010 and he had an owners manual for the team that recognized the importance of building from within. After he was kicked out, there was less emphasis on farm system and more on star power. They won in 2012 and 2014 because the homegrown team was in place but as they left, the focus was more on free agents and away from Neukom's strategy. Ownership group is now spearheaded by Baer and Johnson and I still think they don't have a clue. Guys like Baer and Charles Johnson are smart guys that are successful in their own fields but baseball does not work like typical investing. A successful organization is not just capacity crowds at Oracle Park but it means that a pipeline of players are always developing at the lower levels. A non-baseball example of Baer's mindset was when Baer was spearheading an effort to get the Olympics to come to the Bay Area. He was pushing for it pretty hard and said that most of the facilities were in place using various colleges as venues. It was not popular locally because it would have required a lot of infrastructure upgrades to transportation and venues that he was intending to push onto local municipalities. Long story short was the Olympics would have generated a lot of money for the Bay Area but could have had tremendous costs long after the Olympics have come and gone. If it were up to Baer, he probably would go with a team consisting of Soto and 25 "other guys" as long as Oracle Park was filled. As it is, the Mission Rock project that they are building looks shiny but has the potential to become a hot mess. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 29, 2022 12:08:48 GMT -5
Feel the same way Boly.. Losing is the only way to stop a desperate Farhan from trying to save face and destroy the team from within.. Anyone with a pair of eyes , can see that we are weak in sonmany facets of the game that even the great Soto wouldnt make a dent.. Just a dumb team trying to pull the wool over the eyes of its fans, ince again I think the ones at fault are the ownership group. Neukom was CEO when the Giants won their first championship in 2010 and he had an owners manual for the team that recognized the importance of building from within. After he was kicked out, there was less emphasis on farm system and more on star power. They won in 2012 and 2014 because the homegrown team was in place but as they left, the focus was more on free agents and away from Neukom's strategy. Ownership group is now spearheaded by Baer and Johnson and I still think they don't have a clue. Guys like Baer and Charles Johnson are smart guys that are successful in their own fields but baseball does not work like typical investing. A successful organization is not just capacity crowds at Oracle Park but it means that a pipeline of players are always developing at the lower levels. A non-baseball example of Baer's mindset was when Baer was spearheading an effort to get the Olympics to come to the Bay Area. He was pushing for it pretty hard and said that most of the facilities were in place using various colleges as venues. It was not popular locally because it would have required a lot of infrastructure upgrades to transportation and venues that he was intending to push onto local municipalities. Long story short was the Olympics would have generated a lot of money for the Bay Area but could have had tremendous costs long after the Olympics have come and gone. If it were up to Baer, he probably would go with a team consisting of Soto and 25 "other guys" as long as Oracle Park was filled. As it is, the Mission Rock project that they are building looks shiny but has the potential to become a hot mess.
But if all that jackass cares about is fannies in seats, he's a freaking moron.
But Soto and "25 other guys," is exactly what we'll have if they pull off this deal for him.
As Mrs. Gump said: "Stupid is as stupid does." |
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Post by reedonly on Jul 29, 2022 15:30:37 GMT -5
Farhan might be under marching orders from Baer, as was Sabean and Evans. Baer is not a stupid guy. When he took over the team, Hank Greenwald said he was a guy who used to pat people on the back a lot and say "I hear ya, I hear ya" but he blindsided Greenwald a little later by firing his broadcasting partner Ron Fairley without him knowing it. Ron Fairley was not a good announcer by any means but Greenwald did not like the way it went down and took it as backstabbing. Generally, in the Bay Area, Baer is not respected.
Now, as far as the Giants are concerned, the group lost a lot of money during the pandemic and also saw 20% inflation for ballpark renovations (bullpens, seating) and the Mission Rock Project. That's why there were cutbacks in areas like scouting but probably the whole infrastructure of the minors was hit. there's a lot of moving pieces here and I think Farhan is doing what he is told. I get that they need to keep seats filled in August and September but it is not the best option.
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Post by reedonly on Jul 29, 2022 15:41:27 GMT -5
This is to illustrate the Giants situation. Its clearly not just about the team, the organization, the ballpark. The Mission Rock Project that the Giants have been working on was supposed to be a money stream for the team but you get the feeling that the Mission Rock Project might be turning into a money pit that affects the team in the opposite direction. When the ballpark was built, they said that the team would be financially self sufficient when the ballpark was paid off. Payments were accelerated and as soon as it was paid off, they started up Mission Rock, so they are not being totally honest. You can get more information about Mission Rock by googling it and you can see the slick renderings of how they think its going to look like but I get the feeling it will become an extension of a lot of the rest of the city.
Larry Baer quote:
“We’ve been hit pretty hard,” said Giants CEO Larry Baer. “We’ve ended up over budget on ballpark improvements, but we don’t believe we can cut back on the ballpark improvements. We’re just going to have to live with that.”
Cost also has risen on Mission Rock, a waterfront mixed-use project developed by Giants ownership.
“We’ve had larger numbers than we thought, larger increases in construction and a higher financing rate,” Baer said. “We’ve been able to absorb those higher costs with the project, and it’s still under construction. A lot of projects in San Francisco and in L.A. are stopped because they just aren’t viable, but ours is still going. So we’re feeling good about that.”
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Post by Islandboagie on Jul 29, 2022 22:38:01 GMT -5
I'm not sure how much impact Neukom had with drafting or player development but the players liked him and respected him. I don't think they like Baer much.
I think Neukom wanted to really push to keep the core together and bring in quality help around them. He was looking to build a juggernaut, Baer convinced the rest of the ownership they wanted to just ride the first World Championship...The only reason the second two Championships happened was just a result of what Neukom and Sabean had already built, and what Bochy was able to keep together.
I don't know if much of this is fact, but that's how I've always envisioned it in my head.
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Post by reedonly on Jul 29, 2022 23:37:57 GMT -5
Baer was a guy I was familiar with at UC Berkeley because he got a lot of publicity for broadcasting A’s games in a 10 watt campus radio station at the same time that I was a student there. I felt that this was just something a college kid did as a prank and it was kind of stupid. I was surprised he became one of the guys spearheading keeping the Giants in SF. His thing is to keep butts in the seats with star power and nice ballpark, not necessarily have a championship team. Neukom was more into building up the infrastructure of the organization and I think he was ousted by Baer and other owners because they didn’t like the way he allocated money. Reports were that Neukom thought the championship money was Neukom’s to spend but seems reversed in retrospect. What I heard was that the other owners wanted to use championship money as a rainy day fund but looking at the people involved, I'm not sure if the report was doctored to fit a particular narrative.
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Post by Islandboagie on Jul 30, 2022 1:04:55 GMT -5
Makes sense..
For whatever reason the organization just loves Baer, even after the tussle with his wife they still want him around.
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Post by reedonly on Jul 30, 2022 9:47:04 GMT -5
I never ever liked Baer. In my opinion, he represents everything wrong with how the Giants are run, more so than Zaidi or Kapler. It’s one thing to run a baseball club, organization, and ballpark but when a major property project like Mission Rock is added, it becomes really risky. The focus shifted from having a championship organization to being a money machine. I guess that’s what the big owners like Charles Johnson wants. I’m not sure if you realize but to get Mission Rock passed, they had to put a lot of low to middle income housing on it, as well as Anchor Steam flagship and a tech campus. Looks good in theory but big potential for security issues.
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Post by reedonly on Jul 30, 2022 9:56:54 GMT -5
As far as how this affects the product on the field, they may choose to ride the three WS championships and ballpark into the sunset or will they do the hard work to fix a broken organization? To do it the right way will take a lot of effort and resources and even though they do a lot of things that look right (Dominican academy) something tells us that they are missing the boat. The big club doesn’t win, the minors clubs are getting whipped every day, the prospects aren’t getting better. Can’t blame pandemic for everything because it affects all teams. In fact, the team down south lost even more money than the Giants did during the pandemic.
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Post by reedonly on Jul 30, 2022 15:13:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure how much impact Neukom had with drafting or player development but the players liked him and respected him. I don't think they like Baer much. I think Neukom wanted to really push to keep the core together and bring in quality help around them. He was looking to build a juggernaut, Baer convinced the rest of the ownership they wanted to just ride the first World Championship...The only reason the second two Championships happened was just a result of what Neukom and Sabean had already built, and what Bochy was able to keep together. I don't know if much of this is fact, but that's how I've always envisioned it in my head. I think the way you envision it is pretty much exactly how it went down. I think they felt that Baer could keep the party going without having to invest a lot of money in the organization. The problem is that sometimes when people try to be cheap, it ends up costing more by creating more problems to throw money at. As to what was on Baer's phone, there's only a few things that would make a husband like Baer guard it from his wife so tightly and for Baer's wife to demand it. |
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Post by reedonly on Jul 30, 2022 15:19:28 GMT -5
Makes sense.. For whatever reason the organization just loves Baer, even after the tussle with his wife they still want him around. I was hoping that the incident with his wife would have gotten rid of him but I think Baer's spearheading the Mission Rock Project probably saved him. |
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Post by reedonly on Jul 31, 2022 8:10:37 GMT -5
I just heard on the pregame show that management has given a vote of confidence to the players saying they're not gonna be sellers In my opinion this is stupid beyond belief At the end of the season Carlos rodon and Pederson are going to walk. And with what our general manager said we're going to get hosed and get nothing! Thinking this team as any chance to advance in the playoffs is, to me idiotic beyond belief! In the meantime, I am sitting here doing something I never thought I would do; rooting for our guys to lose. I'm guessing that's the only way we can stop our general manager from standing pat! I think the plan is to give Rodon and Pederson QOs and get draft picks |
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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 31, 2022 8:56:16 GMT -5
What are QO's, Reed?
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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 31, 2022 10:08:03 GMT -5
I just heard on the pregame show that management has given a vote of confidence to the players saying they're not gonna be sellers In my opinion this is stupid beyond belief At the end of the season Carlos rodon and Pederson are going to walk. And with what our general manager said we're going to get hosed and get nothing! Thinking this team as any chance to advance in the playoffs is, to me idiotic beyond belief! In the meantime, I am sitting here doing something I never thought I would do; rooting for our guys to lose. I'm guessing that's the only way we can stop our general manager from standing pat! I think the plan is to give Rodon and Pederson QOs and get draft picks
Absolutely stupid!
Yeah, picks are good, but we could get so much more NOW by moving them! |
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Post by reedonly on Jul 31, 2022 11:04:13 GMT -5
I think the plan is to give Rodon and Pederson QOs and get draft picks
Absolutely stupid!
Yeah, picks are good, but we could get so much more NOW by moving them!I think if they get offers for Rodon or Pederson, they will go for it if it's better than what they can draft at the anticipated compensation positions. From what I'm hearing, those two are still on the table. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 31, 2022 11:15:54 GMT -5
I just figured out with QO's mean.
Absolutely stupid!
Yeah, picks are good, but we could get so much more NOW by moving them! I think if they get offers for Rodon or Pederson, they will go for it if it's better than what they can draft at the anticipated compensation positions. From what I'm hearing, those two are still on the table.
Also, from where is the info coming from, Reed?
I know I, for one, will be ticked beyond belief if we don't trade at least one of them! |
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Post by reedonly on Jul 31, 2022 11:22:07 GMT -5
The latest report from the San Jose Mercury yesterday said they might be shifting course and are listening to offers for Rodon and Pederson. I'm not holding my breath but I'm just hoping they don't give up prospects for this. After his latest outing, Rodon surpassed the number of IP needed to activate the opt-out clause.
Sherman and Heyman confirmed they are listening to offers on Rodon and Pederson. This is no guarantee they will be traded but its better than hearing buyer rumors.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 31, 2022 14:29:39 GMT -5
The latest report from the San Jose Mercury yesterday said they might be shifting course and are listening to offers for Rodon and Pederson. I'm not holding my breath but I'm just hoping they don't give up prospects for this. After his latest outing, Rodon surpassed the number of IP needed to activate the opt-out clause. Sherman and Heyman confirmed they are listening to offers on Rodon and Pederson. This is no guarantee they will be traded but its better than hearing buyer rumors.
I can't believe Farhan is dumb enough not to see what's happening in front of him. |
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Post by reedonly on Jul 31, 2022 15:59:03 GMT -5
The latest report from the San Jose Mercury yesterday said they might be shifting course and are listening to offers for Rodon and Pederson. I'm not holding my breath but I'm just hoping they don't give up prospects for this. After his latest outing, Rodon surpassed the number of IP needed to activate the opt-out clause. Sherman and Heyman confirmed they are listening to offers on Rodon and Pederson. This is no guarantee they will be traded but its better than hearing buyer rumors.
I can't believe Farhan is dumb enough not to see what's happening in front of him.Buster Olney also thinks they will be sellers but only for players that are more major league ready. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 31, 2022 17:10:06 GMT -5
You know how rumors go... but with the latest 2 injuries? And us now on our FOURTH SS?
I can't believe Farhan is dumb enough not to see what's happening in front of him. Buster Olney also thinks they will be sellers but only for players that are more major league ready.
Let's hope he isn't just another writer stirring up hope with a rumor he pulled out of his fanny |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 1, 2022 8:08:48 GMT -5
The latest report from the San Jose Mercury yesterday said they might be shifting course and are listening to offers for Rodon and Pederson. I'm not holding my breath but I'm just hoping they don't give up prospects for this. After his latest outing, Rodon surpassed the number of IP needed to activate the opt-out clause. Sherman and Heyman confirmed they are listening to offers on Rodon and Pederson. This is no guarantee they will be traded but its better than hearing buyer rumors.
I can't believe Farhan is dumb enough not to see what's happening in front of him.Farhan isn't dumb but the ownership group is not baseballl smart. I'm not too optimistic. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 1, 2022 8:25:11 GMT -5
Based upon what you have been posting about Larry B, I would agree.
But I've said this before, and I'll say it again, it would be hard for me to work for someone who doesn't have the team's best interest at heart.
I used to argue with Roger about GM's having input about the lineup that goes on the field each day. He said that was the norm. I said that was enough for me never to take a job like that.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 1, 2022 8:34:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this means anything but Will Clark said in his speech on Saturday that Bob Lurie was the best owner.
Krukow said the team was fired up after Will Clark's speech on Saturday. I saw the speech live and it was pretty emotional so if you can find it anywhere, it is something worthwhile to watch. I also heard that before the game, Will led a session in the green room in the clubhouse and Krukow said that Will telling stories in the clubhouse could have lasted until midnight. Its good for the team to realize the history and importance of the uniform. |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 1, 2022 9:15:25 GMT -5
Based upon what you have been posting about Larry B, I would agree. But I've said this before, and I'll say it again, it would be hard for me to work for someone who doesn't have the team's best interest at heart. I used to argue with Roger about GM's having input about the lineup that goes on the field each day. He said that was the norm. I said that was enough for me never to take a job like that. This is the team that Rog wanted. How is that working out? Most of us knew that if DeSclafani is your number 2 starter that your starting rotation is in trouble. There's no value in unavailability. |
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