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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 3, 2022 11:01:41 GMT -5
Okay... the new year is here, and I find myself wondering how long this lock out is going to continue.
It's just my opinion but almost always both sides of an issue start out with incredibly stubborn and unmovable positions from which each side later retreats.
Why?
To me that is just incredibly stupid and tells me that both sides KNOW they will give in some, but pull this kind of nonsense because it's "what you do in negotiations."
Horse crap!
If they really cared for the players and the good of the game, they wouldn't start out on that foot.
Then again, I despise what unions have become.
Initially they were good things and protected workers from greedy, power hungry abusive bosses.
Today?
It's how much can I get and how fast.
Nice attitude, boys, nice attitude.
And the owners/bosses are no better.
"I ain't givin' anything else to you clowns!"
Stupid. Just plain stupid.
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Post by reedonly on Jan 3, 2022 11:27:10 GMT -5
Krukow has mentioned a few times that we will need six weeks of spring training otherwise we will get those soft tissue injuries again like the did last season and in 2020.
From what I'm hearing, it is not about what the top tier guys will make. Whatever happens because of the lockout will probably affect them little. Its about the middle tier guys like Yastrzemski and Wade Jr. I'm not up on what the two sides are negotiating about but I think one of the big things is how they determine service time and to not have a situation where players get screwed around like Bryant did a few years ago. I agree with your stance, its a lot of posturing. I think the players union will do what they have to do but it will be trouble if it goes past the end of the month. They need to have the six weeks of spring training and its more important than playing the full schedule.
I went through a strike situation recently and the union was all set to have a big demonstration and they called it off at 1AM on the day of the demonstration. Essentially, our union caved in but the whole thing looked really silly, especially what our side was using as bargaining chips. The worst part was that ending our strike affected another union which was striking at the same time and weakened the other union.
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Post by reedonly on Jan 4, 2022 11:16:06 GMT -5
The ones that have rally gotten screwed over the years are the minor leaguers. A lot of the money they get goes to room and board and cleaning of uniforms.
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Post by reedonly on Jan 5, 2022 12:09:43 GMT -5
Okay... the new year is here, and I find myself wondering how long this lock out is going to continue.
It's just my opinion but almost always both sides of an issue start out with incredibly stubborn and unmovable positions from which each side later retreats.
Why?
To me that is just incredibly stupid and tells me that both sides KNOW they will give in some, but pull this kind of nonsense because it's "what you do in negotiations."
Horse crap!
If they really cared for the players and the good of the game, they wouldn't start out on that foot.
Then again, I despise what unions have become.
Initially they were good things and protected workers from greedy, power hungry abusive bosses.
Today?
It's how much can I get and how fast.
Nice attitude, boys, nice attitude.
And the owners/bosses are no better.
"I ain't givin' anything else to you clowns!"
Stupid. Just plain stupid. Right now, its just nothing from both sides. No meetings set up. The clock is ticking because they have to have an agreement in place by February in order to have full spring training. From what I'm hearing there will be some rule changes on the table. The DH in the NL is almost certain. There might be a limit to the number of pitchers on the active roster (13) to discourage managers from swapping out pitchers too early. Im not sure if they will keep the Manfred extra inning rule or the three at-bat reliever minimum. Also, they may institute a 15 second pitch clock. The bigger issue on the table are how to discourage teams from tanking and manipulation of length of service (Scherzer specifically cited the Kris Bryant situation). One thing they will not do is to tie salaries to revenue because that would produce an artificial cap. The tanking thing seems to be one of the most important issues because about a third of the teams really did not seem to be trying and most of those were more interested in profit taking. If the NL adopts the DH, I would hope the Giants go after Freeman, even though he duplicates Belt. The Giants tended to have a lot of one trick ponies in their bullpen and they got away with that under current rules. I think they have to start to move away from that approach. Even though the Giants' relievers posted good numbers and one board poster felt that they did well, I felt it was more torture to watch the 2021 version and I think the 2021 pen was a bit lucky. If the Giants do not make significant changes, I feel that middle relief in particular is going to be an area of concern early on. Also, I feel that the success of Jake McGee and Tyler Rogers in 2021 is not sustainable because the NL West saw so much of them in 2021 and by now are more familiar with them. They may need to develop secondary pitches, if they can. The full spring training is going to be important for the Giants in particular because the team is old. A shorter spring training will lead to more soft tissue injuries and mucles pulls but I have a feeling that if it was a choice between shortening the regular season or less spring training, both union and owners would probably opt for less spring training because of the money involved. The usual guys who come down with these aches and pains (Belt, La Stella, Longoria, Yastrzemski, Wood) are going to be the most suceptible. The beginning of the season is going to be important for Yaz. Krukow mentioned that he was bothered all year by being hit with a pitch on the last day of ST and he fell into some bad habits. Hopefully he can correct those. |
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Post by reedonly on Jan 5, 2022 12:41:11 GMT -5
Regulating defensive shifts is also being discussed. In the Arizona Fall League, two infielders had to be on the dirt on each side of second base.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 5, 2022 18:51:07 GMT -5
Regulating defensive shifts is also being discussed. In the Arizona Fall League, two infielders had to be on the dirt on each side of second base.
Heck, in the NFL they changed the rules from Bump and run to... can't touch them after 5 yards.
So I guess anything's possile.
personally, I'd like to see that rule put into effect.
I hate those shifts! |
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Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2022 9:11:31 GMT -5
Okay... the new year is here, and I find myself wondering how long this lock out is going to continue.
It's just my opinion but almost always both sides of an issue start out with incredibly stubborn and unmovable positions from which each side later retreats.
Why?
To me that is just incredibly stupid and tells me that both sides KNOW they will give in some, but pull this kind of nonsense because it's "what you do in negotiations."
Horse crap!
If they really cared for the players and the good of the game, they wouldn't start out on that foot.
Then again, I despise what unions have become.
Initially they were good things and protected workers from greedy, power hungry abusive bosses.
Today?
It's how much can I get and how fast.
Nice attitude, boys, nice attitude.
And the owners/bosses are no better.
"I ain't givin' anything else to you clowns!"
Stupid. Just plain stupid. On KNBR this morning, the announcer was going on a rant about MLB. The NFL and NBA got their contracts done, NHL tried to stick it to the players and now has become a minor sport that people can only see on ESPN. No excuse for not even trying to set up talks. |
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Lock Out
Jan 6, 2022 9:59:42 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 6, 2022 9:59:42 GMT -5
You said a mouthful!
These idiots just never learn
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Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2022 11:24:28 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm not in a huge rush to go out to the ballpark. With my wife not really interested, its going to cost about $200 minimum for two people for tickets, parking, food, and a good chance of getting COVID from the crowds. The past few years, its been a pain trying to navigate around all of those drunk fans and I've opted out of going down to the park even when the tickets were free. Watching live sports has gotten way too expensive and the Giants tickets are considered a bargain when compared to the Warriors. They way both sides are acting is like the gravy train is going to get bigger and bigger but I think they don't realize that it could go backwards quickly if they develop bad public relations from the lockout.
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Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2022 11:35:04 GMT -5
Yesterday, I was looking at Mike Yastrzemski's salary grid on spotrac.com and I realize what the union is fighting about. The way it's set up now, he's looking at three years of arbitration and he won't hit unlimited free agency until he's age 36 and by then, he's probably not going to make that much. Lamonte Wade Jr is in a similar boat but he can hit free agency at age 32. The current system really screws the players who make it to the show late. This kind of thing is important but the current lockout has too much junk tacked on to the agenda.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 6, 2022 11:44:47 GMT -5
Yesterday, I was looking at Mike Yastrzemski's salary grid on spotrac.com and I realize what the union is fighting about. The way it's set up now, he's looking at three years of arbitration and he won't hit unlimited free agency until he's age 36 and by then, he's probably not going to make that much. Lamonte Wade Jr is in a similar boat but he can hit free agency at age 32. The current system really screws the players who make it to the show late. This kind of thing is important but the current lockout has too much junk tacked on to the agenda.
Thanks you!
But I must say, though I feel a little bad for both Yaz and Wade, with the money those guys make and the endorsements nearly all of them have, for me, those things are way down the "importance" list.
Yes, professional athletes are elite, there simply aren't that many of them... but I would argue so are teachers, police, firemen, doctors and so many more.
To me that's just union horse crap.
Gimme more! Gimme more! Gimme more! Gimme more!
Enough is never enough for them.
I always go back to Gary Sheffield, the year he signed the contract to be THE highest player.
A couple of days/weeks/months, whatever later, when someone signed for more he began screaming he was being "disrespected!"
That schtick has grown old.
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Post by reedonly on Jan 6, 2022 16:37:00 GMT -5
I think one of the things they are pushing for is to have all players when they hit 29 1/2 years old become free agents. I'm no sure if that is realistic but its a start. Another one in that situation is Tyler Rogers, who has three years of arbitration left and won't be able to hit free agency until he's 35. Right now, there is very little incentive to remain a minor leaguer at age 30 and then be subjected to the arbitration process, with no chance to hit free agency until age mid-30s. It would be more than I could handle if I had to ride those buses for more than a few days and many years of that at poverty level pay is insane. We just hear about the stars and their outrageous salaries but the majority of those in professional ball, especially those long time minor leaguers really get taken advantage of. I'm not sure what life will be like for Mike Yastrzemski or Tyler Rogers in about 8 years but you would hope that they have something else lined up.
I get it that these are precisely the kinds of players that Farhan looks for because they can be controlled longer and discarded when they outlive their usefulness. It's a cruel way of looking at it
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Lock Out
Jan 7, 2022 9:43:41 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by klaiggeb on Jan 7, 2022 9:43:41 GMT -5
Minor leaders do not make a lot of money, that is for sure.
But the last time I checked the average Major League salary was over $325,000 a year!
Even those at the bottom of the scale make tons and tons more money than the average American on the street, and certainly more than teachers policemen are firemen.
That's for riding all of those buses for very little pay, I'm guessing that all those players still think they have a shot, and they have jobs in the off season.
None of us can say for sure what we would do, but I know I would be hanging on until I was absolutely sure I have no chance of getting to the show.
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Post by reedonly on Jan 7, 2022 11:24:23 GMT -5
Minor leaders do not make a lot of money, that is for sure. But the last time I checked the average Major League salary was over $325,000 a year! Even those at the bottom of the scale make tons and tons more money than the average American on the street, and certainly more than teachers policemen are firemen. That's for riding all of those buses for very little pay, I'm guessing that all those players still think they have a shot, and they have jobs in the off season. None of us can say for sure what we would do, but I know I would be hanging on until I was absolutely sure I have no chance of getting to the show. Last week, Krukow was talking about riding minor league buses. He said that a lot of those buses literally have a million miles on them so the ride would be bumpy, broken down seats, and usually no air conditioning. Most of the players would be sitting on the buses in t shirts and shorts because it was so hot. He related a story about one day when they were riding a bus in Florida and the bus driver pulled over to help a driver that went off the road. After they helped the driver, they got back into the bus and the ceiling was black with mosquitoes and everyone got bitten all over. The point is that professional baseball system is like a pyramid and those in the show are the very tip of the pyramid and the minor leagues are more of the base. I referenced Yaz as an extreme case. So he makes $200,000 a year for 3 years, goes to arbitration for the next three and by age 36, he might be done. The money he makes in baseball really cannot sustain him the rest of his life. They do make more than the average person but it is 700 players a year and the average career lasts slightly less than three years. The news always follows guys like Sheffield and Scherzer but the lockout is more about the low to middle tier big leaguers. When a team like the Dodgers can throw away over $30 million in luxury tax penalty, it shows they don't care. |
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Post by reedonly on Jan 28, 2022 16:52:06 GMT -5
Looks like the MLBPA dropped age based free agency but they are tinkering with the arbitration timing. they are close to the point where the lockout could start to lop some games off the schedule.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 29, 2022 11:50:08 GMT -5
Swell. Once again, Stupidity is King
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Post by reedonly on Feb 4, 2022 11:31:29 GMT -5
Stupidity certainly rules these days. I think dealing with COVID has made everyone's thinking devolve.
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Post by klaiggeb on Feb 4, 2022 15:09:07 GMT -5
Stupidity certainly rules these days. I think dealing with COVID has made everyone's thinking devolve.
Maybe both sides should sit down and watch the movie IDIOCRACY for a glimpse of how they conduct business. |
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