He's lying again

[sharksrog]

Donald Trump is lying again. How can we tell? IF he were telling the truth, he wouldn't have to resort to insults like this:

"Does anybody really believe that longtime Con Man Bob Woodward, and his lightweight lapdog assistant Robert Costa ...?"

WHen people are telling the truth, they don't have to put down people to add credibility (they somehow think) to their point.

Would we marry a liar? It tends not to work out well, since you don't know when to believe your spouse or not. And if we wouldn't marry a liar, why in the world would we elect one? I realize you can tell me that Donald didn't receive the most votes in either election, but under the electoral college rules, he won the first election fairly and squarely, just as by losing BOTH the popular vote and the electoral vote in the second election, he lost that one fairly (according to no fewer than 61 courts). It was probably more a case that Hillary lost than that Donald won, especially with the electoral college complications, but regardless, he was the winner. Fair and square.

But one had to be pretty desperate to vote for him, and apparently to vote for Hillary either. I personally voted for neither one, writing in "Anyone Else." In retrospect, my vote was probably more dead on than I realized at the time.

People say they don't like the guy, but look what he's accomplished. Well, here's what he accomplished:

. More deaths than any president since the Civil War.

. More lost jobs than any president since the depression.

. More hospitalizations than any president ever.

. A bigger deficit than any previous president.

. One of the largest deficits even BEFORE the pandemic.

. The biggest threat to our democracy since the Civil War.

. The biggest divide our country has seen since the Civil War.

. The biggest divide the Republican Party has ever seen.

. The biggest loss of respect for our country.

. The first drop in life expectancy in our lifetimes.


And of course we're still paying for the pandemic with overflowing hospitals, supply chain bottlenecks, high inflation and a huge running away from the labor force by millions of Americans. Had you or I been president, Matt, we would have avoided the pandemic. When we were told by our top national security advisors it was the worst threat to national security we would face, we would have been scared to death and assembled experts to jump on it before it got out of control. We would have acted prudently. And one of the worst disasters in our history would have been contained.

9/11 was a horrible day in our history, but the pandemic caused far more damage. And because 1/6 was caused by domestic insurgents, not foreign terrorists, in some ways it was an even scarier day than 9/11.


Given how virulent COVID has become, we may not fully recover for decades from Trump's reign. I'm open to facts that contradict the statements I've made, but my comments seem to continue to receive implicit, tacit approval. Kind of the opposite of most of Trump's comments, and that's a high recommendation.

[Islandboagie]

Rog- And because 1/6 was caused by domestic insurgents, not foreign terrorists, in some ways it was an even scarier day than 9/11.

Boagie- I feel silly responding to such a ridiculous statement, but I feel I must.

In absolutely no way was it scarier or more devastating for this country and it's freedom than 9/11. The only reason the media is portraying it as such is because they think blowing it out of proportion is good for Democrat elections, and stupid people buy into it.

We disagree on a regular basis, and I'm fine with disagreements, but this honestly angers me. Not so much that YOU said it, but because the mainstream is obviously projecting this idea onto ignorant and sheltered people like yourself.

What happened on Jan 6 was shameful. It was shameful in the same way the protests in Seattle and Portland were. Shameful in the same way that we cannot stop talking about the Kardashians. It shows just how lost the logic in this country is with selfies, the woke culture and the division that materialized during the Obama administration. People are so enamored with themselves and their social media they'll walk off a cliff trying to get the best angle for a selfie. These are all shameful acts. The people who dictate the culture that has created this shame, are now pushing rhetoric and deciding our elections for us because they realize they have the power over the people. This is why you think you've become enlightened, Rog. You're not enlightened, you're brainwashed. It's shameful, but it's not a threat to our Democracy and our freedom, because I still have faith in common sense. I still have faith in people like Bill Maher, who while very Liberal can also realize when enough is enough. Comedians like Dave Chappelle are pushing back now.

You are very much like the Buffalo headdress guy, you're both brainwashed by your ignorance, but you're not a threat, because I still believe most people see you and buffalo headdress guy as a joke. Zombies without logic if you will. To take you or Buffalo headdress guy as a threat it would mean a large percentage of people think the same. I don't think that's the case.

Real domestic attacks on this country have happened, and some have been very threatening. The Oklahoma City bombing, the Unabomber, the KKK and true racism. Those are things we need to look out for. To skip over all those in between and equate what happened on Jan 6 to 9/11 is just pure stupidity.

[sharksrog]

Where are your facts and logic, Matt? I listed ten huge failures on the part of Donald Trump, and you didn't even address nine of them. Regarding 1/6, you said that the Buffalo headdress guy wasn't a threat, but he was sentenced to 41 months in prison. His attorney did agree with you regarding his brainwashing though, stating that Trump was the best brainwasher since Hitler.


The lawyer for Jacob Chansley, who is known as the “QAnon Shaman,” said on Wednesday that his message to former President Trump was to take care of “the jackasses that you f----- up because of January 6.” A judge handed Chansley a 41-month sentence on Wednesday following him pleading guilty to felony obstruction of an official proceeding in connection with the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol. -- Source, The Hill, which is rated "center" for media bias.


You make a good point about the Oklahoma City bombing, the Unabomber and the KKK, Matt. Why though did Donald Trump say he didn't know the head of the KKK, David Duke, years after admitting that he did? I guess we know the answer: Donald didn't think it served him at that moment to tell the truth, as is far too often the case.


Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke says former President Donald Trump and Fox News host Tucker Carlson owe him credit after taking his racist ideas about "white replacement” to the mainstream. “Trump really knows what his movement is based on,” Duke said. “You know, [Trump] had to know that I ran my campaigns primarily on the immigration issue, on fair trade issues, on the issues of preserving American culture, on stopping the replacement of European Americans — which people are all talking about now.” -- Source MSNBC, which is rated left. The quote is from David Duke, who is rated far right.

Matt, if Donald did nothing wrong on 1/6, why is he telling his guys to ignore congress's subpoenas, and why has he gone to court to keep congress from getting phone records? Non-guilty people want the truth to come out; guilty people try to hide it. Hasn't Trump's MO long been to hide the truth?

How about providing some facts and logic, Matt? How about answering questions? Wouldn't that be a lot more productive and honest than name-calling?

[Islandboagie]

When you stop blaming Trump for a virus that started in China and spread across the globe, then we'll talk logic and facts. Until then, it's apparent that facts and logic escape you.

[sharksrog]

Let's simply talk facts ABOUT the virus:

. Donald Trump was told on January 28th by his top national security advisors that the virus was the biggest threat to our national security.

. Donald didn't take action until a month and a half later.

. South Korea had both their first COVID case and their first COVID death the same week as we, but they reacted very quickly with testing, contract tracing, isolation and masks. Unlike us and most of the rest of the world, they didn't have to shut down their economy. Yet today they have suffered only about 3000 COVID deaths, compared to over three-quarters of a million COVID deaths in the US. We're 6 1/2 times larger than South Korea, so if their population were as large as ours, the numbers would be more like 20,000 and 800,000. Per capita, we've suffered about 40 times as many deaths.


By the time President Donald Trump privately told journalist Bob Woodward on Feb. 7 that the coronavirus was “deadly stuff” transmitted by air, a threat “more deadly” than the flu, the warnings around him had been rampant.

National security adviser Robert O’Brien had told Trump that Covid-19 would be the “largest national security crisis of your presidency.” Top trade adviser Peter Navarro was drafting urgent pleas to manufacture more medical supplies and personal protective gear in the U.S. Other worried senior aides were organizing meetings about the potential severity and spread of a pandemic.

Yet Trump continued to downplay the threat publicly — comparing it to the typical flu, insisting the virus would disappear quickly and offering frequent praise for China’s response. The president appeared committed to keeping the public focused on more upbeat matters such as the rising stock market. -- Source Politico (leans left).

. You are absolutely right that COVID started in China, but did you know that they've suffered fewer than 5000 COVID deaths?


I am not blaming Donald Trump for starting the virus. He most definitely did NOT start the virus. But he ignored his top national security advisors when sharply warned out it, and the result is that we appear to have lost around three-quarters of a million more lives than we needed to. Not to mention the trillions of dollars in costs and the tens of million jobs lost unnecessarily.

Those are facts, Matt. Which facts would you like to counter them with?

[Islandboagie]

Rog- . Donald Trump was told on January 28th by his top national security advisors that the virus was the biggest threat to our national security.

. Donald didn't take action until a month and a half later

Boagie- I'd say shutting down all flights to and from China is taking action, that happened 3 days later, not a month and a half later.

[sharksrog]

You're right about that, Matt. That WASN'T nothing. That said, clearly it wasn't nearly enough.

Donald DID shut down flights from China within a couple of weeks, but he didn't shut down travel from other countries as he should have. But even if he had done that, the virus was already in the US. We needed to get really aggressive with testing, tracing and masking, as South Korea did. The proof is in the pudding. South Korea's pudding worked; ours didn't. For us, it was too little, way too late.

You do make a good point about the flights being cancelled from China, Matt. If Trump had shut down ALL flights from outside the US and gotten right on the testing, tracing and isolation, he almost certainly could have later avoided shutting down the economy. And saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

[Islandboagie]

I still think his response was good, Rog. They shut down flights early on and set up transparent news conferences everyday. The information was there, it was up to people to listen. He got the government to work with the private sector and got the supplies that were needed. If anyone dropped the ball it was the CDC and Fauci who purposely lied to the world and said masks wouldn't help.

[sharksrog]

If Trump's response was good, why is our per capita death rate 40 times that of South Korea? We have 4.25% of the world's population, but we have 15% of its COVID deaths.

Trump failed to stop flights from other countries aside from China, but where he failed worst was in not immediately implementing testing, tracing and isolation. Remember, South Korea has a per capita death rate that is only 1/40th of our, and they didn't have to shut down their economy. They've managed to keep their death rate low even though when I checked a couple of months ago, the U.S. had destroyed about the same number of vaccine doses as South Korea had adults vaccinated. It was only fairly recently that South Korean's who weren't old had access to the vaccine.

Have you truly studied this situation, Matt? This timetable tells a lot of the tale. I've presented it to you a few times before:

doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-trumps-coronavirus-responses


In the interest of full disclosure, this timetable comes from a Democratic congressman, but can you find any flaws in it? Note too that Trump's mistakes date all the way back to May of 2018.

The Republicans had their COVID hero. George Bush read a book in 2006 or 2007 about the 1918 flu and realized another pandemic could and probably would happen. He got something like $6 billion for pandemic research. But Donald began undoing his good work in 2018. The Republicans are indeed COVID heroes. But Trump is a COVID goat. Not GOAT. Goat.

[Islandboagie]

you can't see a distinct difference between the geography between the U.S. and South Korea? I mean..to me and many others it might seem pretty obvious why one of the countries might have a significant disadvantage during a pandemic. We can't even keep our borders secure outside of a pandemic. Are you suggesting we increase our border security?

[sharksrog]

You are right that there are significant differences between the US and South Korea. But if someone had told you that either South Korea or the US would greatly outperform the other when a pandemic hit the world, wouldn't you have guessed the greatest country in the world? I certainly would have -- especially if someone had told the per capita death difference between the two countries would be 40 times.

We know that the virus originated in China. Yet even though China has over four times as many people as the US, over 1600 times as many people have died from COVID in the US as have died in China. If China, where the virus began, could contain COVID, why couldn't the US? The answer is because Trump didn't begin the key actions of testing, tracing and isolation within the United States until a full month and a half after he was warned by his top national security advisors that the virus was the worst threat to national security he would face.

If you or I had been president, Matt, wouldn't we have gathered experts and begun taking critical action as soon as possible? Would we have delayed by a month and a half -- when every day was critical?

If someone told you he would give you a million dollars right now -- or he would give you a penny today and double it each day over the next 30 days -- which would you take? I kind of gave you a clue that you should take the penny and double it each day. By the end of the 30 days, you would be receiving around $9 million per day. With people who caught COVID giving it to more than two people, that's the kind of exponential explosion we were facing with COVID.

I realize it's hard to get one's brain around that kind of explosive spreading of a disease, but not only was COVID far more deadly than the flu, its biggest problem is that it is often asymptomatic -- that's people without symptoms -- but asymptomatic people can still spread it. And at the rate it was spreading early on, to two or more people. With the flu, one gets symptoms and knows he has it. With COVID, one often gets the disease and doesn't even know it. That's why immediate testing was so critical.

Yet, as late as June 20th, Trump said "Testing is a double-edged sword,...When you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find more cases, so I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down, please.'" This is nearly five months after he was warned by his top security advisors. He needed to get testing going as quickly as possible in February, and here he his in May telling his people to slow down the testing.

Of course, the COVID death horse was already long out of the barn by this time. Which is why before we reach June 20th this year, we'll almost certainly pass a million deaths. Especially when because of his politicizing mask wearing, social distancing and getting the vaccine, so many of his base are refusing to wear masks, socially distance or get vaccinated. If Trump were a true patriot, he would have gotten his vaccines and booster publicly. It would have sent a tremendously patriotic message. But since he feared that might appear weak to his base, he did so privately, missing a great chance to publicize something so critical to our country (and the world).

Donald had the chance to prevent more deaths than anyone in world history. But he failed miserably. That is probably the primary reason historians rank him the second-worst president ever.

I was proud to be a Giants fan when they had the second-worst record in baseball the second half of 2017. But that didn't mean I supported their leadership. Once they hired Mr. Zaidi, I supported it again.

If Mr. Zaidi had been our president, we wouldn't have lost nearly as many lives. Because he knows far more economics than Donald Trump does, we wouldn't have suffered nearly the economic devastation. Then again, if you or I had been president, we too would have done a much better job. We would have taken the top national security advisors seriously and attacked the problem rather than trying to minimize it.

You realize, right, how foolish it was for Donald to say in late June that he had told his people to stop testing? He followed his statement up three days later, saying "“Cases are going up in the U.S. because we are testing far more than any other country, and ever expanding. With smaller testing we would show fewer cases!” Actually, the opposite was true. With MORE testing, tracing and isolation, we could have gotten more ahead of COVID. That's how South Korea avoided shutting down their economy. Speed, testing, tracing and isolation.

The period from January 28, 2020 through the middle of March when Trump finally took the virus seriously will ultimately go down as one of the deadliest period in US history. Donald had long missed his chance to get ahead of the virus. An earlier, accurate response could have helped us avoid shutting down the economy. Trump finally took action only after two heavy Wall Street hitters told him if he didn't act, the US would suffer hundreds of thousands of deaths (It was already too late to avoid that) and even more economic devastation to the stock market.

Trump hadn't listened to his top security advisors when he had a chance to get ahead of the virus, but he did listen to Wall Street to stop the stock market slide.

Matt, I suggest you study all you can about Trump's response to the pandemic. It begins with George Bush as the hero, but, sadly, because we got so far behind it and so many still won't take proper precautions, we may be stuck with it in some form the rest of our lives. COVID shots seem likely to join vaccines against polio, measles, chicken pox, etc. Let's compare notes when you're reached say 40 hours of study.

If you want to maximize your time, I'll make up a list for you. I've even read a bunch of pro-Trump stuff. but I don't think you're short in that category.

[sharksrog]

Matt, you mentioned that South Korea is different from the United States, and that is certainly true. But with regard to COVID, you realize the greatest difference is how quickly they began testing, tracing and isolating to slow the virus compared to the US, which waited about a month and a half, right?

You are right that Trump closed our borders to travel from China, but clearly that wasn't anything approaching a full answer. China itself is where the virus began, and despite our population being less than a quarter as many as China, we've had over 160 times times as many COVID deaths. Clearly closing our borders wasn't the answer. It was a step, but it was only a small step. And Trump didn't take significant action again for nearly a month and a half.

[sharksrog]

So why do you keep avoiding these highly important questions, Matt? How much have you studied what truly happened with regard to the Trump administration and the pandemic? In 100 words or so, just tell us what he should have done but waited far too long to do. Take a few words to tell us why he lied so about the pandemic. Why he put Scott Atlas, a radiologist, not an immunologist, in charge of his COVID effort. (Since we're a sports board, wouldn't that be a little like bringing in a basketball coach to manage a major league baseball team?)

A few words to tell us why Donald politicized mask-wearing. A few more to share with us why he continued to hold big rallies long after it was known they often became super spreaders. Maybe just a couple more to tell us why most of those who still refuse to get vaccinated are his supporters.

[sharksrog]

Are we to assume these highly important questions simply don't have good answers? I've been searching for good answers for over a year and a half now, and I've come up mostly empty-handed. I was hoping someone like Matt could help, but he and I have been talking for over a year, and that simply hasn't been the case.

I think true Republicans are very good. Most -- not all -- Democrats are good. Independents are very good. But Trumpers appear to be in denial. They are long on their beliefs, but short on facts, analysis, logic and honest answers.

I was hoping Matt could change my opinion of Trumpers. But he doesn't address the most serious questions, and he mostly seems to sidestep with the answers he does give. I would love for him to change his approach and be more forthcoming.