How far has our country fallen

[sharksrog]

Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar has tweeted an animated attack on Ocasio-Cortez in which he appears to kill her, as well as an attack on President Biden. Gosar's sister says she believes he is mentally ill. Yet our country has fallen so far that no one from his party has publicly reprimanded him, let alone censured him. I'm not a fan of Ocasio-Cortez, but what Gosar did does appear to show mental illness, as his sister believes. He's from that part of the party where mental illness doesn't seem to matter.


www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-gosar-aoc-video-tweet/



See, Matt, I provide sources. It's sad that you believe you don't need any. Then again, it's tough to find unbiased sources to back up your ideas. That should tell you something.

If you ask me to, Matt, I can provide a reasonably unbiased source for almost anything I say here. By the way, the facts don't lead me far away from what true Republicans believe, but they lead me far, far away from our 45th president.

Is the Supreme Court living a lie, or are you? IMO the Supreme Court is now slanted too far toward conservatism. I wish that instead of being 2/3rds Republican and 1/3rd Democrat, it were 5-4 in either direction. But even with their bias -- and a third of them having been appointed by Donald Trump -- they unanimously shot down Trump's lies.

Have you watched the HBO video "Four Hours at the Capitol," Matt? You owe it to yourself and your country to watch it. Below is the most NEGATIVE review of the documentary I have found. The only criticism I've seen of the documentary is that it wasn't strong enough in its condemnation of the acts of that day. That said, I liked the even-handed approach it took. It was shocking, but clearly not biased. The documentary let the video and comments from BOTH sides tell the story.

variety.com/2021/tv/reviews/four-hours-at-the-capitol-review-hbo-1235093092/

[Islandboagie]

Nov 9, 2021 14:31:26 GMT -5 sharksrog said:

Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar has tweeted an animated attack on Ocasio-Cortez in which he appears to kill her, as well as an attack on President Biden. Gosar's sister says she believes he is mentally ill. Yet our country has fallen so far that no one from his party has publicly reprimanded him, let alone censured him. I'm not a fan of Ocasio-Cortez, but what Gosar did does appear to show mental illness, as his sister believes. He's from that part of the party where mental illness doesn't seem to matter.


www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-gosar-aoc-video-tweet/



See, Matt, I provide sources. It's sad that you believe you don't need any. Then again, it's tough to find unbiased sources to back up your ideas. That should tell you something.

If you ask me to, Matt, I can provide a reasonably unbiased source for almost anything I say here. By the way, the facts don't lead me far away from what true Republicans believe, but they lead me far, far away from our 45th president.

Is the Supreme Court living a lie, or are you? IMO the Supreme Court is now slanted too far toward conservatism. I wish that instead of being 2/3rds Republican and 1/3rd Democrat, it were 5-4 in either direction. But even with their bias -- and a third of them having been appointed by Donald Trump -- they unanimously shot down Trump's lies.

Have you watched the HBO video "Four Hours at the Capitol," Matt? You owe it to yourself and your country to watch it. Below is the most NEGATIVE review of the documentary I have found. The only criticism I've seen of the documentary is that it wasn't strong enough in its condemnation of the acts of that day. That said, I liked the even-handed approach it took. It was shocking, but clearly not biased. The documentary let the video and comments from BOTH sides tell the story.

variety.com/2021/tv/reviews/four-hours-at-the-capitol-review-hbo-1235093092/

You linked the article about the cartoon, but I had to go find the actual cartoon it was talking about. See I actually have to form an opinion myself, rather than allowing some far left nutjobs tell me I should be appalled. The cartoon in question was odd to say the least, but I don't think it's some nefarious message that we need to kill Democrat politicians. I think it was a poor attempt at trying to reach the younger voters and perhaps asians as well. It's another example of a political ad going a little too far, which is seen on both sides. Before you get too enraged about this, do you think Paul Gosar sat down and made this video himself? I mean what does an old white guy know about anime cartoons? My guess is probably very little. I'm certain it wasn't his idea, he didn't create it, the most he probably did was ok it after someone said "the kids will think you're young and cool." The worst thing he did was to not admit it was a bad choice, and condemn any violence. But that logical thinking doesn't get clicks, it's much better to act like this was a view into Paul Gosar's disturbed psyche and be all enraged about it, that's what people like you eat up. The sheep love to feed on stuff like this. This is why there's such a divide in this country..we are persuaded to get all worked up about stuff like this, rather than to see it for what it is.

Thank you, Rog, for linking me that unbiased source, it was very informative. Unfortunately for you, I'm not an idiot who allows his emotions to take over logic.

As far as the supreme court goes, they didn't "shoot down Trump's lies" they said there wasn't enough evidence to overturn an election. As I've said before, the Democrats are very good at covering their tracks.

[sharksrog]

You're an excuse maker, Matt. For Trump and almost anyone who supports him.

Gosar did take down the video, but no one in his right mind would have posted it in the first place. Gosar's own sister has said that she believes he has mental issues and isn't competent to handle his office.

As for the Supreme Court (and the other 60 courts, they ALL said there wasn't enough evidence. Some of the courts rebuked Trump's efforts. Either the Supreme Court is living a lie, or you are.

I believe the evidence says it is you. If the Democrats covered their tracks, why couldn't the courts see it? Why do so many Republican election officials say the election was one of our fairest ever? Why do Trump's own Attorney General and Trump's own Justice Department say the election was fair?

If someone is hiding things, they try to avoid witnesses and subpoenas, right?

I'm sorry, Matt, but I've read and watched a LOT more about this topic than you have. I've worked hard to gather unbiased information and information from BOTH sides. You fail to provide balanced sources, and you can't even seem to answer my questions.

Even now Trump maintains that election day was the insurrection, that January 6th was merely the protest. What he continues to say flies in the face of a Supreme Court he himself formed a third or, with another third being formed by his party. The Supreme Court is very unbalance, yet it repelled him. Based on what I've ready about Trump, he was almost certainly SHOCKED that the three Supreme Court justices he appointed didn't support him. In his mind, they owed him.

Those who voted for a mentally ill person kind of got what they deserved -- a mentally ill person. Apparently Paul Gosar is also mentally ill. At least his sister believes so. In Trump's case, his own niece, who is a psychologist, believes he is mentally ill. Many other psychologists have seconded her opinion.

Can you tell me how Donald Trump isn't the most dangerous man in America?

[Islandboagie]

I don't really care what some politician's flaming Lib sister thinks about her brother's character. It's not that I'm defending him..maybe he is nuts, I just don't care. It sounds like a case of sibling rivalry on T.V. It reminds me of an episode of Jerry Springer.. But the liberal mainstream media does care because it's not real news, they found someone that likes to bash Republicans so of course they give her air time because calling all Republicans evil fits their narrative. This story and people like you, Rog, that eat this stuff up shows everyone how far the country has fallen, and it's not pretty. I wish you would stop "researching" as you like to call it, it appears to be rotting your brain.

[sharksrog]

Researching or study has never rotted anyone's brain to my knowledge, but a lack of study has indeed seemingly had that effect on millions of Americans.

Make you a deal, Matt. I'll answer two of your questions for every one of mine that you answer. You probably work about twice as many hours as I do, so that seems to me not to be placing an unfair burden on you. I WELCOME your questions, since I gives me a chance to study further.

One thing I think would be helpful to you as well would be to look at your comments compared to mine. I use facts and logic, whereas you seem to use inflammatory words instead. Lots of opinions, but few facts.

Look at your last point as an example:

"... some flaming Lib sister thinks about her brother's character." How do you know she is a liberal, let alone a flaming liberal. Did you see the levity with which she delivered her statement? Let's just say she was a lot more calm in delivering it than you were with your post above.

"Maybe he is nuts. I just don't care." You don't care if one of our country's legislators is nuts? Shame on you.

"It reminds me of an episode on Jerry Springer." Did you see his sister speak? If you had, it WOULDN'T have reminded you of Jerry Springer. She spoke calmly and logically.

"But Liberal mainstream media does (sic) care because it's not real news." It's not real news when a legislator tweets our what an animated attack on a fellow legislator, an attack that appears to kill here, and the attack then moves on to the president"? You're confused as to what real news is, Matt.

"This story and people like you that eat up this stuff shows (sic) everyone how far the country has fallen..." I don't eat this up, Matt. I wish like heck it weren't happening. Remember, I'm a Republican who originally bought what Trump was selling. I hadn't really paid all that much attention to politics. But especially when the debates began, I started following closely. That is when I saw that Trump was a liar, and one simply can't trust a liar.

"I wish you would stop 'researching' as you like to call it; it appears to be rotting our brain." That's an accusation with no backup. I know darn near as much as you do about Trumpers, and I know many, many times more about true Republicans and Democrats.

You don't seem to like to answer questions, and you don't seem to like to use facts and logic. I would be delighted if you would start doing both.

Matt, when you said we should tip our caps to the Democrats for being so good at hiding their stealing of the election, you showed us you are lacking in character. You say we should tip our caps to them; I say that if they truly stole the election, they should go to prison.

I guess that's how much I love Democrats, Matt. You say we should tip our caps to them, and I say that if you are right about what they did -- despite no evidence to back it up -- they should go to prison. You say they're wrong, but we should tip our caps to them? I say if you are right about what they did, they should go to jail? Which one of us is being realistic?

Hey, Reed, if the Democrats stole the election, should we tip our caps to them or tip the scales of justice against them and put them in jail?

[Islandboagie]

Rog- Researching or study has never rotted anyone's brain to my knowledge, but a lack of study has indeed seemingly had that effect on millions of Americans.

Boagie- Rog, you're not researching for christ sake. You're surfing the internet, reading/watching biased hit pieces on anything Trump related. Then you're trying to start fights online about the topics you've read/watched. That's not reserching or being well informed, that's being an internet troll.

[sharksrog]

Matt, if you're going to write what I do, why not ask me first?

Why don't you respond with facts and logic instead of guessing what you think I do? The sad thing seems to be that you have an idea in your head what I do and why I do it, but you're WAY off base.

Now, I don't know as much about you as I wish. I was shocked that you said to tip our caps to the Democrats for stealing the election. There is virtually no evidence that they did steal it, and tons of evidence that they didn't, but had they done so, I would be calling for them to be prosecuted. And you have no idea how disappointed I am in you that you show a lack of character by suggesting we should tip our caps to the Democrats for what you think they did, when you should be calling for their heads (after first, of course, verifying that you are right).

Your thoughts here are scary, kind of like when Boly told me that Republicans fear Donald Trump. One would fear a dictator; a president, he should admire.

[reedonly]

Nov 12, 2021 18:35:11 GMT -5 sharksrog said:

Researching or study has never rotted anyone's brain to my knowledge, but a lack of study has indeed seemingly had that effect on millions of Americans.

Make you a deal, Matt. I'll answer two of your questions for every one of mine that you answer. You probably work about twice as many hours as I do, so that seems to me not to be placing an unfair burden on you. I WELCOME your questions, since I gives me a chance to study further.

One thing I think would be helpful to you as well would be to look at your comments compared to mine. I use facts and logic, whereas you seem to use inflammatory words instead. Lots of opinions, but few facts.

Look at your last point as an example:

"... some flaming Lib sister thinks about her brother's character." How do you know she is a liberal, let alone a flaming liberal. Did you see the levity with which she delivered her statement? Let's just say she was a lot more calm in delivering it than you were with your post above.

"Maybe he is nuts. I just don't care." You don't care if one of our country's legislators is nuts? Shame on you.

"It reminds me of an episode on Jerry Springer." Did you see his sister speak? If you had, it WOULDN'T have reminded you of Jerry Springer. She spoke calmly and logically.

"But Liberal mainstream media does (sic) care because it's not real news." It's not real news when a legislator tweets our what an animated attack on a fellow legislator, an attack that appears to kill here, and the attack then moves on to the president"? You're confused as to what real news is, Matt.

"This story and people like you that eat up this stuff shows (sic) everyone how far the country has fallen..." I don't eat this up, Matt. I wish like heck it weren't happening. Remember, I'm a Republican who originally bought what Trump was selling. I hadn't really paid all that much attention to politics. But especially when the debates began, I started following closely. That is when I saw that Trump was a liar, and one simply can't trust a liar.

"I wish you would stop 'researching' as you like to call it; it appears to be rotting our brain." That's an accusation with no backup. I know darn near as much as you do about Trumpers, and I know many, many times more about true Republicans and Democrats.

You don't seem to like to answer questions, and you don't seem to like to use facts and logic. I would be delighted if you would start doing both.

Matt, when you said we should tip our caps to the Democrats for being so good at hiding their stealing of the election, you showed us you are lacking in character. You say we should tip our caps to them; I say that if they truly stole the election, they should go to prison.

I guess that's how much I love Democrats, Matt. You say we should tip our caps to them, and I say that if you are right about what they did -- despite no evidence to back it up -- they should go to prison. You say they're wrong, but we should tip our caps to them? I say if you are right about what they did, they should go to jail? Which one of us is being realistic?

Hey, Reed, if the Democrats stole the election, should we tip our caps to them or tip the scales of justice against them and put them in jail?

I’m not on this thread.

[sharksrog]

Doesn't matter if you're on the thread or not, Reed. You or anyone can answer whether if someone cheats and gets away with it we should applaud him or condemn him. Because at least in this case, Matt seems to have no morals, he says applaud him. Because I'd like to think I have a moral or two, I say condemn him.

There is no doubt Matt is wrong on this one. Even if he were right about the election being stolen (He isn't, according to the Supreme Court and 60 other courts), according to Republican election officials, according to Trump's own Attorney General and his Justice Department, etc, etc., etc.), he is dead wrong that they should be applauded.

[sharksrog]

And, Matt, it's a big deal when a congressman tweets out an animated video in which he appears to kill a fellow congressman and attack the president of the United States. Of course you try to shift the blame to his sister, who says he is unfit for his office.

You've lost it, Matt, and the sad thing is that there are millions who have lost it at least as much as you. I do feel bad for you though, since I think you're a much better guy than you're showing here.

Get back to facts and logic, Matt. And don't forget to watch "Four Hours at the Capitol." You haven't watched it, and you don't intend to, right? If you plan to continue to ignore the facts, I wouldn't watch it either. Then again, if you'd like to be guided by the facts, it's an easy place to start.

[Islandboagie]

Rog- Doesn't matter if you're on the thread or not, Reed. You or anyone can answer whether if someone cheats and gets away with it we should applaud him or condemn him. Because at least in this case, Matt seems to have no morals, he says applaud him. Because I'd like to think I have a moral or two, I say condemn him.

Boagie- Actually it does matter if someone doesn't want to talk politics with you, and you should respect it. What's comical to me is you spout off about moral character and Christian values all the time, but your actions here have always contradicted your message. You are exactly what you despise in Trump - Narcissistic, rude and egotistical. Part of me thinks you don't like Trump because he's come close to approaching your level of being the world's biggest condescending, horses ass and you want to defend your title. Rest assured, Rog, your title is safe.

[sharksrog]

I'm not narcissistic, rude or egotistical, although I realize I come across that way here. I wish I didn't, but I don't know how to properly communicate with people who don't want to use facts or logic. I'll make you a deal. You begin answering questions with facts and logic, and you'll see how nice a guy I actually am.

I take it it simply doesn't bother you that Trump just said that it was common sense for the Capitol rioters to chant "Hang Mike Pence."

Can't you begin here by admitting that if the Democrats stole the election, they should pay for their actions, not be applauded for them?

If you can begin using facts and logic, I'll applaud you for it. But if the Democrats or any other party truly stole the election, I'm most certainly not going to applaud them for it. And I'm not going to have much respect for anyone who does.

[sharksrog]

If you can't take the time to watch "Four Hours at the Capitol," perhaps you can spend a couple of minutes reading this:


www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/11/12/donald-trump-rioters-chanting-hang-mike-pence-common-sense/8594353002/

[sharksrog]

It is almost certain that Donald Trump is mentally ill, and Paul Gosar likely is as well.

www.newsweek.com/paul-gosar-sister-calls-him-sociopath-posting-anime-video-killing-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-1647815


You say Gosar's sister is merely acting out sibling rivalry, but there is nothing to indicate that. If we use the eye test, he comes across as crazy, whereas she comes across as quite sane. Have you seen her talk about her brother? I have, and she talked quite calmly, which is something he doesn't do himself.

[sharksrog]

Reed said he wasn't on the thread; he didn't say he didn't wish to talk politics.

[sharksrog]

What gets me is all the alibiing that is done for Trump. Even many people who have previously talked honestly about Trump now defend him lest they lose votes.

As Boly said, the Republicans are afraid of Trump. If we're afraid of a leader, he's leading ineffectively.

Isn't this stuff common sense? Not saying "Hang Mike Pence" common sense, but actual common sense?

[Islandboagie]

Nov 13, 2021 13:51:26 GMT -5 sharksrog said:

I'm not narcissistic, rude or egotistical, although I realize I come across that way here. I wish I didn't

You have the power to come across a different way, Rog. It's not the internet's fault you turn into a different person, that's your fault. You simply lack the character trait to respect other view points that differ from your own, maybe you're not like that in person, but you're definitely like that here. Being a decent person face to face, yet being brash, rude and forcing people to debate with you by insulting them on the internet is the exact definition of an internet troll. Is that what you want to be? You can certainly disagree with someone and present the reasons why, but why continue over and over and over again? Why do you feel it's your job to change minds?

[sharksrog]

I have little problem accepting points of view that differ from my own. In fact, I like points of view that help me improve my own. But I have a hard time accepting points of view that stem from ignoring facts and logic.

What I find frustrating about you, Matt, even though I like you, is that you seem afraid to answer questions, making me wonder if at least subconsciously you realize you're not using facts and logic in forming your opinion. I go out of my way to back up my opinions, but you provide little backup for yours and don't seem willing to even answer questions factually and logically.

It's not a big deal in baseball. But when it comes to Trump, democracy is at stake. I can't think of any president that has been as undemocratic as Trump. I'm not talking about he fact that he never won a popular election; I'm talking about how he has threatened democracy with his horrendous actions.

[Islandboagie]

I don't need facts to tell you I like a good steak. If you didn't like steak, I couldn't give you facts to make you understand why I like eating steak. All I know is that it tastes good to me. If you were a vegetarian and disagreed, you could give me facts about why it might be harmful to my health until you're blue in the face, but it probably won't change my mind. See, what a steak does for me is different than what it does for a vegetarian, a vegetarian would never understand why I like it. If we're only using facts, I wouldn't be able to change a vegetarian's mind.

I told you why I liked Trump, it's mainly personal reasons. You don't pay my bills, you don't pay my car payments, my gas or my insurance. I've given you many financial reasons why I liked Trump. You obviously don't have a problem paying more for gas and taxes, but I do. We all know gas prices have gone up since Biden took over, I don't think I need stats to prove that. I don't answer many of your questions because I simply don't care about Trump's personality. How Trump treats someone who wrote a book about him is not my concern in life. I think I've agreed to almost all of the character traits (or lack thereof) you've pointed out about Trump. I knew he was a narcissistic, arrogant, rich playboy, blow hard before he even ran for president. Everyone knew that. It amazes me you're just now learning of this.

Speaking of steaks, the price of those are going up too. Why would I like Biden when he isn't thinking of me? Why would I vote for paying more for everything? Why is the Liberal media reporting on the Rittenhouse trial and what awful thing Trump did today when they should be reporting on gas prices, our faulty supply chain and inflation? I like that Trump and the conservative media focused on what was important, rather than running from it like the Democrats and the mainstream do. Say what you will about the conservative media, with the exception of Hannity, they held Trump's feet to the fire. They wanted his promises to turn into results. I see nothing remotely similar from the Liberal media and Biden. There's absolutely no transparency there.

[sharksrog]

No question inflation is our biggest problem right now -- aside from democracy. But you realize, don't you, that inflation would be pretty close to the same if Trump were president? I suspect the economy would likely be doing about as well too.

If you were Joe Biden, which specific actions would you have taken against inflation at this point?

As for facts, I ask you questions any solid American should be thinking about. You have shown a propensity for avoiding answering, and when you do answer, you answer with opinions rather than facts and logic.

If we could merely have an honest conversation, perhaps we could make some progress.

[sharksrog]

Matt, you are right that you don't need facts to tell me you need a good steak. But when you say that the democrats stole the election, you need facts to show that they did so.

Let's look at it like an instant replay. If you're Gabe Kapler, you can get a replay review if you disagree with a call that is reviewable (perhaps as check swings should be!). But unless the replay provides evidence, you will be turned away.

The Secretary of State of Georgia was implored by President Trump "just give us 11,780 votes, one more than we need." But there was no evidence to support the needed votes. "Fewer than five" dead people voted, according to the Secretary of State after an audit. "Fewer than 74 convicts" voted. If we assume all those voted for Trump, that still would leave Trump close to 11,700 votes short. All Trump had to do to win Georgia was to get half the 28,000 voters who voted down ballot but abstained from voting for president to vote for him, and he would have won -- legally.

The Republicans in Arizona did their own audit. They didn't use proper audit methods, but they still couldn't find votes for Trump. And in order to win the election, Trump needed at least THREE more states.

The reason Trump lost the election is that he didn't get enough votes to defeat his opponent. There is no evidence to the contrary, which is why the Supreme Court didn't overturn the election.

So enjoy your steak. I hope it's the best steak ever. But stop believing lies. You have more than enough intelligence to stop believing lies. The question seems to be, do you have enough character to do so?

By the way, you don't need facts to tell me you like a good steak, and you don't need facts to tell me you enjoy a bad one. But if one is going to say something as huge as that an election was stolen, don't you think he needs facts? He can somewhat honestly say that an election MAY have been stolen, but saying without evidence it WAS stolen is s disingenuous and unfair slam at democracy.

Wouldn't you agree?

[sharksrog]

Matt, it appears that facts and logic don't suit you, which I guess is why you fail to answer my questions with facts and logic -- or most times, answer them at all.

I'm pretty much a lifelong Republican, Matt. Most of my friends, my wife's friends and the people I've worked with are Republicans. But none of them have been able to provide my answers based on facts and logic. I think facts and logic serve true Republicans well; I simply don't think they serve Trumpers much at all. When one supports Trump, he supports a known liar. And facts and logic simply don't serve a liar, since facts and logic tend to contradict the lies.

Why do you think Trump came up with the phrase "fake news?" Authoritarians disparage the press, since the press has the power to expose their lies.

When one espouses democracy, the truth serves him. When one aspires to be a dictator, the truth does not.

[sharksrog]

Fortunately Congress censured Gosar. It's possible criminal charges might follow.

Six of Gosar's nine siblings have disowned him. The one sister has spoken out nationally that she believes he is a danger and is unfit for his office.

Matt, said, "Maybe he is nuts, I just don't care." You also said that the Democrats should be applauded for stealing the election. You don't care whether a contressman is nuts or not? You would applaud the Democrats for cheating?

Boly isn't bothered that Republicans fear Trump; in fact, he seems to admire Trump for it. He appears to share Trump's bigotry.

[sharksrog]

Jonathan Karl stopped by Anderson Cooper 360 on Wednesday, where the ABC News chief Washington correspondent broke down some details he learned while writing his new book, Betrayal: The Final Act of the Trump Show, which chronicles Trump’s final days in the White House, and beyond.

That includes what he has heard about Arizona Republican congressman Paul Gosar, who was censured and stripped of his committee assignments by the U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday, after he posted a video depicting an animated version of himself attacking Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and President Joe Biden. A censure is the most severe form of punishment in the House, short of expulsion.

When Cooper asked Karl if Republicans have privately expressed embarrassment, shame and concern to him about the future of the party, Karl said, “Oh, yes.”

He expanded on that in reference to Gosar, after multiple Republicans stood up for him on Wednesday. But Karl said it’s a different story behind closed doors.

“The way Republicans would talk about Gosar privately, is entirely different than the spectacle today of effectively defending him,” Karl said. “I mean, they say he's lost it.


That's the problems with the Trumpers. In their hearts, many of them are true Republicans, but they're afraid to stand up in public. As Boly said, Republicans fear Trump. We want to respect our politicians as one does in a democracy (assuming they earn our respect), not fear them as one does in an autocracy.

Incidentally, Trumpers would have us believe that true Republicans are Republicans In Name Only (RINO's). In reality, true Republicans are true Republicans; it is Trumpers who are RINO's. Trump used the term "RINO's" to disguise the fact that it was HE who was a true RINO, much as he used the term "fake news" to disguise that it was what he was saying that was fake.

I'm not saying one can't find mistakes in the news. But if he tries to find a somewhat neutral source, he finds very few. If one wants to find falsehoods, the easiest way I know of is to read what Trump says or tweets. It was a huge benefit to Donald's image when his Twitter account was close, since it gave him fewer opportunities to lie.

As Superman indicated, believe in truth, justice and the American way. Don't believe in Trump's lies.

Does anyone here know someone -- anyone -- who lies more than Donald? I know of no one who comes close.

If we had a girlfriend or spouse who lies nearly as often as Trump, we would break of the relationship, right? Why do we tolerate it from a former president?

[sharksrog]

To paraphrase Joe Friday, Matt, "Just the facts, sir." Actually, logic works great too. But while silence may be golden, it doesn't back up your point of view. I can't see where the facts do either, but I keep trying to learn why it is that so many people support Donald Trump. In fact, most of my friends support him, but while they state a lot of things that they THINK are facts, but when I study them, I find that they aren't.

Anyway, Matt, I welcome any facts and logic from you in answering my questions. Right now I'm kind of left to think that you simply don't have them.

[sharksrog]

Apparently we're left with the Treasure of the Mar-a-Lago:

"We don't need no stinkin' witnesses."

"We don't need no stinkin' subpoenas."

"we don't need no stinkin' facts."

"We don't need no stinkin' logic."

"We don't need no stinkin' truth. We'll just make up our own."

[sharksrog]

Apparently we don't need no stinkin' answers either. At least we're not getting them here on this board.

[sharksrog]

You really "just don't care" that Paul Gosar may be nuts, Matt? A U.S. congressman, and you don't care whether he is sane or not?

[sharksrog]

The Hill (which is rated center for bias) -- Rep. Paul Gosar’s (R-Ariz.) brothers on Thursday apologized "on behalf of the actual sane members" of the Gosar family for the Arizona Republican's false claims about the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

During an interview on CNN’s “New Day,” David Gosar thanked Capitol Police for their “bravery and heroism on that day,” and then apologized for his brother, Paul.

Forbes (also rated center for bias) -- Two brothers of GOP Rep. Paul Gosar on Thursday apologized for what they described as a “despicable” response to the Jan. 6 insurrection from their family member, decrying the Arizona Republican’s downplaying of the deadly violence—including a recent claim pro-Trump rioter Ashli Babbitt was “executed” by Capitol Police—as a “disingenuous” fundraising strategy.

Business Insider (rated center for bias) -- Dave Gosar, a Wyoming lawyer and one of Gosar's nine siblings, told NBC News that his brother was a "traitor."

"I consider him a traitor to this country. I consider him a traitor to his family," he said, according to a report published on Monday. "He doesn't see it. He's disgraced and dishonored himself."


Six of Paul Gosar's nine siblings have disowned him. Thank goodness Gosar was censured, although almost no Republicans so voted.

[sharksrog]

Matt, you seem to be plenty willing to talk about Kyle Rittenhouse and American Indians. Why the reluctance to talk about Donald Trump?

Why did his supporters refuse to call witnesses? Why are his supporters resisting subpeonas? Trump talks about how wonderful January 6th was, yet he is trying to suppress information about it. Shouldn't he be leading the charge for information about January 6th so that he can clear himself of suspicions about his actions that day?

When he has been challenged, he ACTS like a guilty man.

One thing I will say for Kyle Rittenhouse: He mostly tried to get the truth out there, believing it would set him free. And it did. Donald Trump continues to attempt to hide the truth. Why would he hide the truth and try to keep the facts from coming out?