|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Oct 13, 2021 9:59:38 GMT -5
I'm not throwing in the towel, but watching this series has pointed out loudly and clearly to me what we need to do in the off season in regards to pitching.
As Reed pointed out, outside of Stroman there really aren't many better options than we have.
Thus, I would try to resign Gausman, DesClafani and Wood.
That turned my focus to the bullpen.
We have a pen that frightens NO ONE!
Most of them are reclamation projects and they served us well.
But that can and must change!
We need to mimic what LA has done and put together a bullpen that instills fear in opposing hitters.
That means NO MORE reclamation projects like Leone and Alfonzo and Littel and so forth.
We have 2 up and coming stars in Doval and Castro. and that's a nice start.
Rogers is a nice set up guy, but we need more, and I think a good place to start is with Tyler's Brother, Taylor.
Here's a short list of guys who, IF we can get even one of them, we should consider strongly:
1) White Sox. Closer: Liam Hendriks
2 ) Brewers. Closer: Josh Hader
3) Mets. Closer: Edwin Díaz
4) Padres. Closer: Emilio Pagán
5) Rays. Closer: Diego Castillo
6) Cardinals. Closer: Alex Reyes
I have no idea if any of them are available, but they are a blue print for the type of player upon which Zaidi should begin spending some of those big bucks.
|
|
|
|
Post by reedonly on Oct 13, 2021 13:29:59 GMT -5
they might consider one of the "name" free agents such as Jansen or Kimbrel. Its not a lock for LA to re-sign Jansen because of how much money is tied up in Trevor Bauer and he has had a bounce back year, probably because he lost some of that extra weight he had on the past couple of years. I still push for the Giants to go after someone under the radar like Iglesias or Hudson.
|
|
|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Oct 13, 2021 15:09:05 GMT -5
they might consider one of the "name" free agents such as Jansen or Kimbrel. Its not a lock for LA to re-sign Jansen because of how much money is tied up in Trevor Bauer and he has had a bounce back year, probably because he lost some of that extra weight he had on the past couple of years. I still push for the Giants to go after someone under the radar like Iglesias or Hudson.
But with Knable and Trienen and Kelly, Jansen is not really needed. |
|
|
|
Post by rxmeister on Oct 14, 2021 6:50:06 GMT -5
One of the things that analytical baseball has taught is that the big time closer is an illusion and a waste of money. Some of those names you mentioned like Edwin Diaz has been booed off the mound more than 20 times in his tenure with the Mets. Jake McGee at a bargain price was as good as most closers all year and Camilo Doval has the stuff to be elite. Why would you make an expensive investment here? I definitely agree that they should add better set up men and I like a couple you mentioned, but often these relievers are so unpredictable it almost seems like a waste of money. Who didn’t think Matt Wisler was a good pickup and then he turned into a disaster. Would a high priced lefty do any better than Garcia or Alvarez? And one last thing about high priced closers. Remember the last one we signed, Mark Melancon? Might have been the signing that cost Bobby Evans his job. Josh Hader is the only name on your list that you know would come over here and be dominant, but even he’s not worth the money and talent it would cost to acquire him. And we just saw him lose game four with the HR to a lefty that sent the Brewers packing to an inferior club. Let’s save that money for real needs.
|
|
|
|
Post by reedonly on Oct 14, 2021 8:29:26 GMT -5
Too many of our relievers rely on a single pitch (McGee, Rogers) and they lose effectiveness as opposing teams, particularly division rivals, see them so often. I don't see them going after guys like Reyes or Diaz because they have been ineffective for their own clubs. This is a down year for free agents and most of the top free agents are either too old or already play for the Giants so going the free agent route isn't likely to produce any significant improvement. One big step forward should we advance to next round or for next year would be to replace Alex Dickerson. Dickerson served his purpose when the team was bad but they way the Giants use him does not make sense to keep him on the roster. Estrada make a lot more sense in a lot more ways and I don't care if it hurts Dickerson's feelings because he is taking up a roster spot at this point, especially when the last guy off the bench is Curt Casalli.
|
|
|
|
Post by klaiggeb on Oct 14, 2021 10:23:56 GMT -5
One of the things that analytical baseball has taught is that the big time closer is an illusion and a waste of money. Some of those names you mentioned like Edwin Diaz has been booed off the mound more than 20 times in his tenure with the Mets. Jake McGee at a bargain price was as good as most closers all year and Camilo Doval has the stuff to be elite. Why would you make an expensive investment here? I definitely agree that they should add better set up men and I like a couple you mentioned, but often these relievers are so unpredictable it almost seems like a waste of money. Who didn’t think Matt Wisler was a good pickup and then he turned into a disaster. Would a high priced lefty do any better than Garcia or Alvarez? And one last thing about high priced closers. Remember the last one we signed, Mark Melancon? Might have been the signing that cost Bobby Evans his job. Josh Hader is the only name on your list that you know would come over here and be dominant, but even he’s not worth the money and talent it would cost to acquire him. And we just saw him lose game four with the HR to a lefty that sent the Brewers packing to an inferior club. Let’s save that money for real needs.
I mean, look at what they've done with so many reclamation projects: Leone, Gausman, DesClafani, Wood, Alfonzo, Littel and others.
Leone has basically been below average everywhere he's been, same with Gausman.
DesClafani and Wood were coming off of horrible season.
Look at what they did for Doval and Castro.
I don't question for one moment that Diaz was booed and that Melancon didn't work out.
But I believe in this staff. I can certainly see them taking one of those guys, or others I haven't mentioned, and 'fixing' a thing or two to make them very, very good.
My entire point is, our bullpen MUST get better. It must!
As I said, no one fears it, and that has to change. |
|
|
|
Post by reedonly on Oct 14, 2021 16:01:44 GMT -5
One of the things that analytical baseball has taught is that the big time closer is an illusion and a waste of money. Some of those names you mentioned like Edwin Diaz has been booed off the mound more than 20 times in his tenure with the Mets. Jake McGee at a bargain price was as good as most closers all year and Camilo Doval has the stuff to be elite. Why would you make an expensive investment here? I definitely agree that they should add better set up men and I like a couple you mentioned, but often these relievers are so unpredictable it almost seems like a waste of money. Who didn’t think Matt Wisler was a good pickup and then he turned into a disaster. Would a high priced lefty do any better than Garcia or Alvarez? And one last thing about high priced closers. Remember the last one we signed, Mark Melancon? Might have been the signing that cost Bobby Evans his job. Josh Hader is the only name on your list that you know would come over here and be dominant, but even he’s not worth the money and talent it would cost to acquire him. And we just saw him lose game four with the HR to a lefty that sent the Brewers packing to an inferior club. Let’s save that money for real needs. That would be great if they make improvements within the system without spending a lot of money. The biggest change needs to be the approach and not to get overwhelmed by the situation. |
|
|
|
Post by rxmeister on Oct 15, 2021 5:04:57 GMT -5
Good points Boly, and I give the manager and coaches tons of credit for what they’ve done with reclamation projects, and Farhan too for spotting which players can be “fixed” but I sure would prefer making their jobs easier by bringing in better players and not struggling players that might be head cases and attempting to fix them. I’m excited for free agency and hope that a strike or lockout doesn’t ruin it.
|
|
|
|
Post by reedonly on Oct 20, 2021 10:36:45 GMT -5
They are not quite dumpster diving but the MO still will be to identify players who are blocked in their organization and then go after them either by trade or waiver wire. |
|
|
|
Post by sharksrog on Oct 20, 2021 19:26:45 GMT -5
One can be sure the Giants will be trying to improve their bullpen, just as they did this year. I would go for a bullpen that is more effective than feared. Which is pretty much what the Giants have done. And done very effectively.
It was the bullpen (and Logan Webb) that carried the pitching staff in the second half of the season. The first half it was the starters and their 3.18 ERA. Kevin Gausman was one of the league's very most effective starters in the first half, and Webb, DeSclafani, Wood and Sanchez were good. Webb went on to become the staff ace in the second half, but the others suffered from injury and/or less effectiveness, and the starters' ERA increased to 3.81.
On the other hand, the bullpen greatly improved, even with the September injury to their closer. The bullpen had a decent 3.38 ERA in the first half, and that fell all the way to 2.61 in the second half. Remember too that Reyes Moronta might still get healthy. I agree with Boly that it would be great to get Taylor Rogers (assuming he's healthy), but Tyler Rogers is heavily underrated, although not by Kapler, who calls him one of the best. Like many ground ball pitchers, Tyler can look vulnerable when those ground balls find holes, but his 2.22 ERA was the lowest of any of the ten Giants hurlers who threw the most pitches this season.
One thing that reinforces Boly's point though is that among those top ten innings throwers, with the exception of Jose Quintana, whose actual 6.43 ERA was 1.30 runs above his expected ERA, those ten busiest guys posted ERA that were lower than expected. Wood benefited the least, with his actually ERA being just 0.04 runs below expected (based on Statcast), while Jose Alvarez benefited the most at 1.07 runs.
There are some good relievers around the league who might be available, but one needs to remember that relievers run hot and cold from year to year perhaps more than any other position. That's why the Giants built so much depth in the bullpen. This season they will need to replenish and increase their rotation depth, and Boly makes the good point that the bullpen could also benefit from improvement. As is the case with almost every bullpen every year.
Liam Hendriks was perhaps the best closer in the game this past season. IMO the A's made a mistake in not making him a Qualifying Offer last season, although I think their not doing so is as much an indication of their lack of available cash as was their offer to Marcus Semien of "just" $12 million for 2021 with deferred payments of $1 million per season each of the next 10 seasons. Since that totaled $22 million, it might have been a better offer than the $18.5 he accepted from the Blue Jays. (Semien had a fabulous season, but his .538 SLG was 94 points higher than expected, making him a risk to whomever gives him a big, long-term contract this winter.) I think the A's were worried that Hendriks might have accepted the necessary $18.9 million Qualifying Offer -- he signed with the White Sox for 5/$54 million -- but they might have been better served to make the QA and then trade him if necessary. Surely they could have gotten a nice, less expensive package for him.
I'm not sold on Josh Hader, although I like the Brewers' Devin Williams a lot. Reyes would likely drive you crazy if he were the Giants' closer, Boly. He walked 52 batters in 72 innings and lost his closer job to Giovanni Gallegos, whom I like quite a bit. Mark mentioned the issues with Diaz, although him I like and consider him somewhat unlucky. If the Mets would keep a lot of his salary, I'd look at him. Pagan deserved his 4.83 ERA last season. Castillo has a 2.98 career ERA but a 3.70 Fielding Independent ERA, so he may not be as good as he has appeared.
I'd need to look, but there are likely some pretty good free agents out there who could help the back of the bullpen, and since they haven't closed much, wouldn't cost the arm and the leg. If a guy's going to cost an arm and a leg and have to pitch with just one leg, how much can he help?
I'm expecting the Giants to take at least a small step back next year. They're not truly a 107-win team IMO. And you can't guess right with every pitcher you sign. But haven't the Giants shown a tremendous knack for picking up and developing guys really, really well? Part of it is that they use analytics to help figure out which players they can develop. In some cases, the player even signed with the Giants because they convinced him of what they saw, and obviously it can be worth millions and millions to a player if he can improve significantly. They have young coaches and a lot of them, so they can work with players. The coaches are young enough to be able to believe in and communicate the analytics.
When have we seen the Giants do more with less? Including, amazingly, helping some of their more veteran players bounce back.
|
|
