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Sept 19, 2021 17:30:07 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 19, 2021 17:30:07 GMT -5
I was really glad to see Gabe kapler move Buster Posey down in the lineup.
With the way he has not been hitting for these last ten games, he doesn't deserve to be hitting in the one through five hole. He simply does not.
Again today every time he makes contact he's on his front foot, he's off-balance, for one reason or another getting off of lame swing.
I can't be the only one that sees it. I absolutely cannot be the only one.
Once Upon a Time he was a ferocious, threatening Hitter. Someone to be respected and feared with a bat in his hands.
He hasn't been that for a number of months now. Not since early in the season
With Kurt Casali's is pathetic at-bats, with Buster Posey's pathetic at-bats, doesn't leave Gabe kapler with a lot of options.
And it's my opinion, that it is long past time that everyone needs to start admitting it.
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Sept 19, 2021 19:10:30 GMT -5
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Post by holiday613 on Sept 19, 2021 19:10:30 GMT -5
Joey Bart
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Sept 20, 2021 1:01:50 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 20, 2021 1:01:50 GMT -5
Yep, Joey Bart.
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Sept 21, 2021 22:20:06 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Sept 21, 2021 22:20:06 GMT -5
Joey Bart
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Sept 21, 2021 22:21:44 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 21, 2021 22:21:44 GMT -5
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Sept 21, 2021 23:54:35 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 21, 2021 23:54:35 GMT -5
Just imagine if that was said in 2010 about Posey.
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Sept 22, 2021 10:25:28 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 22, 2021 10:25:28 GMT -5
Just imagine if that was said in 2010 about Posey. No one would have said that for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was the fact that Buster was tearing up AAA.
His growth was fast and immediate, something that cannot be said of Bart.
NO ONE said "this kid Buster looks like a keeper, but he needs more time at AAA."
No one.
But that has been said repeatedly about Bart.
It would destroy team chemistry to bring up Bart now, and likely hurt Bart's growth to do so.
We all see the potential, but let's not ever see Joey as the same as Buster at that age.
Buster has always been mentally tough, quickly adjusting and applying what he's learned.
Joey... not so much.
Don't understand why you guys want to put Joey in a lose-lose situation like that.
Lose for the team chemistry, which, as Kapler said in an article yesterday was HUGE, and lose for Joey as his confidence would likely plummet.
Not what you want with 12/11 games remaining.
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Sept 22, 2021 12:53:10 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 22, 2021 12:53:10 GMT -5
What makes you think Joey Bart isn't mentally tough like Buster? You're acting like they're apples and oranges, when in reality Bart and Posey are very similar. Both were top prospects, both catchers, both considered good defenders with power bats. While you say Bart needs more time, his numbers would indicate he really doesn't. Other than Farhan's comments at the beginning of the season, what are we going on here? What do you know that we don't?
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Sept 22, 2021 15:49:49 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Sept 22, 2021 15:49:49 GMT -5
Sometimes I get the feeling that they treat Caselli like a good luck charm. Giants have something like a 35-10 record when he starts. I really can’t explain unless the pitchers like pitching to him or he starts a lot of day games after night games. On Knbr, the always say it’s going to be a win because it’s Caselli day. Did they not have Hector Sanchez’ cell number?
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Sept 23, 2021 10:25:09 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 23, 2021 10:25:09 GMT -5
What makes you think Joey Bart isn't mentally tough like Buster? You're acting like they're apples and oranges, when in reality Bart and Posey are very similar. Both were top prospects, both catchers, both considered good defenders with power bats. While you say Bart needs more time, his numbers would indicate he really doesn't. Other than Farhan's comments at the beginning of the season, what are we going on here? What do you know that we don't? My saying he's not mentally tough is based upon 2 thinks:
1-He never was able to adjust during his first 100 at bats
2-He kept striking out more and more...and making less and less solid contact.
3-He got continually worse as the season wore on.
Does all of that qualify as "mentally" tough? Maybe, maybe not.
I contend that it does, but it's a debatable point.
So what I'll do to make my point is go "Rog" on you. I'll back my case with numbers.
In Posey's first 100 at bats during the 2010 season:
He hit .310, walked 3 times and struck out 9 with 2 doubles, 1 triple, one HR and 10 RBIs with an OB% of .337
Let's compare that to Joey's 1st 100.
He hit .233 , with 3 walks and 41 K's, 5 doubles, 2 triples or HRs and 7 RBIs, with an OB% of.288
When Buster was called up, he was hitting .349 with an OB of .442
He had 13 doubles 2 triples, 6 HR and 32 RBIs.
He walked 28 times and struck out 30
Joey right now:
.293 .359 OB
15 doubles, 0 triples, 10 HRs
21 W 81 K 46 RBIS
Decent numbers to be sure, and in 249 at bats, 10 HRs is not bad, and project to a 20 HR season with 500+ at bats.
But they are not Posey numbers.
Just look at the BB vs K's and it's easy to see who's the better, more consistent hitter.
boagie, I agree with you; Joey is an outstanding prospect.
But your post says/implies that Joey is as good a prospect as Buster was, and based upon the numbers I've shown you, he is not.
A good prospect for sure, but he's not on the same level as Buster when Buster was called up.
Outside of the HRs, it's not even that close.
And finally, I'll reiterate what I've been saying for weeks now: I don't want Joey thrown into the fire like Soloman Torres was, be over matched and have mental set backs in his game.
That's just not fair.
Now you want to talk next year, I'm all in!
I want Bart with the Big club catching at least 2 or 3 times/week.
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Sept 23, 2021 10:29:04 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 23, 2021 10:29:04 GMT -5
Sometimes I get the feeling that they treat Caselli like a good luck charm. Giants have something like a 35-10 record when he starts. I really can’t explain unless the pitchers like pitching to him or he starts a lot of day games after night games. On Knbr, the always say it’s going to be a win because it’s Caselli day. Did they not have Hector Sanchez’ cell number? Speaking from experience, Reed, what I can tell you is that I preferred to pitching to some catchers over others.
It's a chemistry thing, and I would argue that for whatever the reason, Casali has a "chemistry" with pitchers that Buster does not.
Busters a darned good catcher awkward technique and all.
But no player in any sport has to "look" the part in their mechanics.
I think of Arnold Palmer in golf. TERRIBLE technique! But he was darned good for a really long time.
Carl Yaz...awkward set up in the box with those hands way up in the clouds like they were, but man! Could he hit!
An even better example would be Stan Musial... who looked like he was peaking at the pitcher from around a corner. But man could he hit!!!
My point is, Buster is outstanding behind the plate, awkward mechanics or not.
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Sept 23, 2021 10:41:55 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Sept 23, 2021 10:41:55 GMT -5
I think Salomon Torres was unfairly maligned for that 1993 Giants-Dodgers game. He gave up three runs as an opener but the guy who really let it get away was Dave Burba, who gave up 4 more runs. When Torres came back to SF as an opposing player in later years, he would get booed by Giants fans who could never get over it. Another pitcher in that same game gave up 4 runs but no one would ever boo Dave Righetti. I think to this day, fans unfairly malign Torres for that game (we still point to that game as what not to do with a young player) but the true blame should go to Burba and to Baker for burning out the pitching staff.
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Sept 23, 2021 14:15:51 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 23, 2021 14:15:51 GMT -5
It would be very optimistic of me to assume Bart could perform this season the same way Posey did down the stretch in 2010. But that's not really what we're talking about here. Posey was called up to be the spark and ignite the offense, which he did. With Bart I just want a decent BACKUP catcher who can hold his own in the batter's box and not be an easy out like Casali. That's not putting nearly the same pressure that was put on Posey.
I compare Bart and Posey, not for their success early on in their careers, I compare them because of the expectations we had for Posey and now Bart. Both are catchers drafted by the same people, both were very high picks and both have similar skills. Bart is almost 25, if he's not capable of being a backup catcher yet, then maybe he's a bust. While his numbers are not as solid as Posey's were in 2010, he's still playing at a level that warranted a call up.
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Post by holiday613 on Sept 23, 2021 19:40:33 GMT -5
Boagie, you nailed it..What they are doing to Bart is a baseball crime!!! He has done everything they asked of him..Casali is stinking up the joint and now he can't even throw out runners or catch a framed pitch, so why the hell is still a backup? Enough of this crap already...I had it
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Sept 24, 2021 9:05:32 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 24, 2021 9:05:32 GMT -5
This is why Sabean and Bochy's experience and knowledge surpass that of Zaidi and Kapler's. Despite winning, Sabean and Bochy always looked to improve the roster and solidify roles to get ready for the postseason. This team isn't ready. They're sitting on a broken starting staff, a poor backup catcher and a slew of tired veterans.
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Sept 24, 2021 10:42:29 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Sept 24, 2021 10:42:29 GMT -5
Yesterday, after the tough loss, Gausman posted a picture of rookie dress up day with Belt as captain and the rookies dressed up as sailors (they look like bad Village People wannabes). Yesterday's loss was one of the most brutal of the season and I suppose this was someone's idea of keeping things loose. I guess we should be thankful that they are trying to keep upbeat.
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Sept 24, 2021 13:04:18 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 24, 2021 13:04:18 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing.
On the Pre game show yesterday they showed the math:
We go 7-3, and LA must go 10-0 to catch us.
All well and good, but in 1964 the Phils only had to win ONE GAME of the last 7... and they couldn't do it.
Of course there were extenuating circumstances. Other than Bunning and Short Philly starters were begging off, causing Bunning and Short to work on 2 days rest.
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Sept 24, 2021 15:24:13 GMT -5
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Post by reedonly on Sept 24, 2021 15:24:13 GMT -5
The worst case scenario is to be forced to play game 163. The rotation will get screwed up with less rest. Even if they end up one game back, they won’t be forced to play as many games back to back.
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Sept 24, 2021 16:46:43 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 24, 2021 16:46:43 GMT -5
163. NO thank you!
Greg Papa has been talking about that very thing on the last couple of pregame shows.
Let's just win this out right and not have to go in that direction.
Of course, that said, even though Watson and Rogers are 'fresh' for tonight, as well as Doval...our bullpen got taxed in a way nobody was anticipating last night.
Oh. And thank you Belt and Bryant for chasing 3-1 pitches that weren't hittable enough to chase 3-1.
I've/we've all come to expect that from Bryant, but not Belt.
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Sept 24, 2021 18:12:58 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 24, 2021 18:12:58 GMT -5
The only reason I want them to win the division is for bragging rights over the Dodgers. Otherwise, I don't really care much. I don't think it gives teams much of an advantage. Getting that first post-season game under your belt before the other teams actually helps, imo.
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Sept 24, 2021 18:58:56 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Sept 24, 2021 18:58:56 GMT -5
Good point, boagie, and I TOTALLY agree with your reason to want to win.
I am sick and fed up with LA and their fans!
I am so glad we moved out of that freaking place over 2 years ago. Can't tell you what it feels like to be able to BREATHE again!
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Sept 27, 2021 10:25:26 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Sept 27, 2021 10:25:26 GMT -5
Its the old Catch 22. Won't play him because he's not experienced enough but will not give him the experience, either. How much worse than Casali could he be?
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Sept 28, 2021 10:43:29 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Sept 28, 2021 10:43:29 GMT -5
The 1964 Phillies is always used as an example of a choke but Jim Bunning remembers it differently. He felt it was a case of where the team's personnel did not match up with other teams. They had superstar Dick Allen, Callison, but a lot of spare parts. Also, Mauch burned out Bunning and Short by pitching them so often. Mauch's micromanaging in 1964 is probably the thing that has kept him out of the Hall of Fame all these years. He was good at small ball but he outsmarted himself in 64.
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Sept 28, 2021 21:17:59 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 28, 2021 21:17:59 GMT -5
Reed,I understand the bad match ups & that is certainly true.
But according to what I've read Bennett & other starters did not want the ball down the stretch and thus Mauchs' hand was forced
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Sept 29, 2021 15:53:34 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Sept 29, 2021 15:53:34 GMT -5
What is interesting about Dennis Bennett is that he begged off because of an injury. He was kind of like the Madison Bumgarner of his day because he built himself up by doing firefighting and entering rodeos. However, unlike Mad Bum, he had a tendency toward wild living (pitchers can party for two days in between starts) and he kept getting in serious car accidents. He was one of those guys who was seriously injured in a car accident because his feet were up and one of the those accidents cracked his shoulder. The shoulder injury got worse in 64 and was cited as the biggest reason for the Phillies collapse because Mauch was running Bunning and Short out there so much and started doubling down when they kept losing. This was almost 60 years ago and a lot of weird stuff happened but Bennett was grateful for the chance to play with all of those great players back then.
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Sept 29, 2021 16:07:37 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 29, 2021 16:07:37 GMT -5
I had not heard that before, Reed.
That is certainly not the story told in the late 60s
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