Casali

[holiday613]

Ok.. I have seen enough.. How can the Giants carry a back up catcher who is barely batting over the mendoza line and cant throw our a damn runner when we have a #1 pick in Joey Bart who is hitting . 318 in Sacramento with power?? I am furious.. Casali has to go.. I dont give a damn how many shutouts he caught.. Thats about as over rated as hearing how Bengie Molina knew how to handle a pitching staff back in the day.. You know what happened? We traded Molina , brought up Buster and went in to win 3 WS in 5 years.. Now im not saying we will see the same result if Bart is brought up, but how the hell can he do any worse than Casali? Cmon Farhan.. Pull the damn trigger..

[Islandboagie]

Thank you, Mordy! I'm not sure why they're keeping Casali around with Bart clearly ready to jump to the next level. I said I wanted them to call up Bart back in July...now it's too close to the September callups for them to make the change. Bart will get called up and might get a start, but Casali will be our backup catcher for the rest of the season and into the postseason. They dropped the ball on this one.

[klaiggeb]

Sorry, guys but I do not agree. Joey Bart is simply not ready to play at the major league level. Not only that, he's been on the injured list for 7 to 10 days now.

If the Braves can live with a guy like the pus arm the guy they had behind the plate, we can live with casali.

His last seven or eight at-bats, he has hit the ball really hard, always for an out not much you can do about that.

[holiday613]

Disagree away Boly, but i'm sticking to my guns..Casali is more than a backup because the Giants tend to baby Posey more than other teams do to their primary catcher which means a bum like Casali plays more often then he should in the first place..He can't throw out runners, has poor blocking skills and can't hit a lick..Bart was their #1 pick and if he can't crack the roster now with a bum like Casali behind the plate when will he? He has hit for avg and power and has a huge reputation in college..How the hell he isnt here now is a mystery..We can't afford to have automatic outs in the bottom of the order and expect to succeed..Change must be made NOW

[reedonly]

What is weird to me is that the Giants have something like a 33-9 record when he starts a game. Maybe the pitchers like pitching to him or something. KNBR announcers always point this out whenever its a Curt Casali day.

[holiday613]

Aug 30, 2021 9:23:15 GMT -5 reedonly said:

What is weird to me is that the Giants have something like a 33-9 record when he starts a game. Maybe the pitchers like pitching to him or something. KNBR announcers always point this out whenever its a Curt Casali day.

Like I posted earlier.. reminds me how the Bochy always wanted Bengie Molina to catch bec the pitchers liked to throw to him.. They then traded him, brought up Buster and they went on to win 3 WS in 5 years...

[reedonly]

I get the feeling that Joey Bart is no Buster otherwise he would have been called up already.

[holiday613]

Aug 30, 2021 10:27:13 GMT -5 reedonly said:

I get the feeling that Joey Bart is no Buster otherwise he would have been called up already.

Perhaps, but im pretty certain he isnt a crapsali, so I see no reason why he isnt the backup catcher

[klaiggeb]

At this point, holiday, I think it's moot.

I would never bring up a kid to sit two games and play one game.

The bigger problem is how injuries, and covid at just taking this team apart right when we need everybody healthy the most.

How do you compete against the Brewers and their big bats, and then the Dodgers with their big bats, with only one and a half starters?

And it's not like we have anybody down in Sacramento that can help, because we don't.

I do not want to sound like a harbinger of Doom, but we could easily lose 6 the next six

[Islandboagie]

It's good for a young catcher to be eased into a starting role rather than expecting to start right off the bat. The Giants have a team option for Posey next season which I assume will be picked up, which means regardless, Bart will be a backup before he's a starter. The good thing for Bart is Posey takes every third day off, which gives Bart enough playing time to stay sharp, and also time on the bench to visually learn from Posey. So the "not enough playing time" argument is moot, it would have happened this year or next.

The real question is, is Bart ready now? His numbers and what I saw from his brief stint earlier this season would suggest he's ready now. His on base percentage and slugging percentage should warrant a call up. His caught stealing percentage is at 32%, which is very good. The only glaring fault Bart has is the high percentage of strikeouts. But in today's game, they don't really look at that as long as you're getting on base, which Bart, last I looked, is getting on base at around 38% of the time, also very good.

There was really no reason NOT to call up Bart, other than if you're trying to spare the feelings of the current veteran backup, or if you've been fooled into thinking that the veteran is better than he really is.

I think a lot of fans have been blinded by the consecutive shutout streak Casali went on earlier this year. Since then everyone thinks he's wonderful. I do like Casali, I think he's done an adequate job as the backup, which is often more than you expect from a backup catcher. But again, I think Bart would benefit being at the next level, and we'd benefit from having a backup catcher that can be used in pinch hitting situations, and one that can actually shut down the running game.

[klaiggeb]

Aug 31, 2021 10:48:12 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

It's good for a young catcher to be eased into a starting role rather than expecting to start right off the bat. The Giants have a team option for Posey next season which I assume will be picked up, which means regardless, Bart will be a backup before he's a starter. The good thing for Bart is Posey takes every third day off, which gives Bart enough playing time to stay sharp, and also time on the bench to visually learn from Posey. So the "not enough playing time" argument is moot, it would have happened this year or next.

The real question is, is Bart ready now? His numbers and what I saw from his brief stint earlier this season would suggest he's ready now. His on base percentage and slugging percentage should warrant a call up. His caught stealing percentage is at 32%, which is very good. The only glaring fault Bart has is the high percentage of strikeouts. But in today's game, they don't really look at that as long as you're getting on base, which Bart, last I looked, is getting on base at around 38% of the time, also very good.

There was really no reason NOT to call up Bart, other than if you're trying to spare the feelings of the current veteran backup, or if you've been fooled into thinking that the veteran is better than he really is.

I think a lot of fans have been blinded by the consecutive shutout streak Casali went on earlier this year. Since then everyone thinks he's wonderful. I do like Casali, I think he's done an adequate job as the backup, which is often more than you expect from a backup catcher. But again, I think Bart would benefit being at the next level, and we'd benefit from having a backup catcher that can be used in pinch hitting situations, and one that can actually shut down the running game.

Easing a youngster in is fine, boagie... but in the heat of a pennant race, with some 35+ games to go?

I don't want that kind of pressure on a kid with his upside.

IMHO, that's unrealistic, and puts a burden of "I must be excellent on every at bat because if not, I could cause us to lose the pennant, right the stink now!" on him.

Next year, I have no problem with doing as you suggest.

But not now.

Not with the pressure of the pennant race going on.

[Islandboagie]

Buster Posey did exactly what you don't want to do with Bart, Boly. We won the World Series that year, and Posey won Rookie of the Year. Posey's experience in 2010 (I would have to imagine) also helped his mindset with Championship runs in 2012 and 2014. I might also add that Bart is a year older than Posey was in 2010. Bart being the backup for Posey now during a playoff race is the perfect learning experience for a young catcher, and could help him next year and beyond.

[klaiggeb]

Aug 31, 2021 13:32:00 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

Buster Posey did exactly what you don't want to do with Bart, Boly. We won the World Series that year, and Posey won Rookie of the Year. Posey's experience in 2010 (I would have to imagine) also helped his mindset with Championship runs in 2012 and 2014. I might also add that Bart is a year older than Posey was in 2010. Bart being the backup for Posey now during a playoff race is the perfect learning experience for a young catcher, and could help him next year and beyond.

Boagie, that's not quite accurate.

Buster came up early in the season, Molina was traded on July 1st.

Buster played in 101 games that year and he was not brought up in the heat of the pennant race with some 35+ games to go to save the team or the season.

He had the season to grow into his role, and, as I believe Reed pointed out, he came up with much better credentials that Bart has.

Buster was clearly ready...I will argue that Bart is not, and here's why:

Buster hit .3225 with 18 HRs and then .349 w/6 HRs when he was called up.

Bart hit .294 w/13 HRs, .278 with 16HRs, and this year, .311 with 10.

Every time I turn around, Bart is injured once again.

Buster was pounding the ball in AAA and everyone said he's ready.

Bart is not, and even Farhan, among many others, continues to say he needs more time at AAA to hone his skills.

[Islandboagie]

When was the last time Farhan said that, Boly?

It was obvious to most he was not ready in 2020. That, I believe was the last time Bart needing more time in AAA to hone his skills was mentioned by Farhan or anyone else. This year in his brief stint with the Giants he looked good to me, and Farhan had said Bart looked really good defensively, was happy with his offensive numbers and he was pleased with Bart's progress. The only reason I've heard Farhan mention this season to keep Bart in AAA is to get regular playing time, which means they're holding onto Casali rather than calling up Bart.

I'd like to see a quote recently from Farhan saying Bart needs more time to hone his skills.

[klaiggeb]

The last quote I saw from Farhan zaidi was back in April and May when fans were pushing to have him make the opening day roster and Farhan said he wanted to see Joey have a full season at Triple-A because he wasn't ready.

Have any of us heard any reports that Joey Bart is tearing it up. In Sacramento?

No, I have not.

We can argue this point all day long, but I'm not going to change my mind and y'all aren't going to change your mind.

I just don't see how it benefits Joey to bring him up and you guys do. Let's leave it at that.

[rxmeister]

Mordy’s crusade against Casali, a BACKUP CATCHER has now reached the point of ridiculousness. Sorry our backup catcher isn’t Johnny Bench. The role of a backup catcher is to fill in for the starter, call a good game and handle the pitching staff. And occasionally get a couple of hits! Casali slumped early, has slumped again recently, but also hit very well for over a month awhile ago. The pitchers have done better with Casali pitching then with Posey, yet Mordy continues to rail, because he misses the finer points of the game. He’d rather have Joey Bart rotting on the bench then playing every day in Sacramento, which makes no sense. Even Joey Bart wouldn’t hit with the sporadic playing schedule of the backup catcher. Give it a rest already!

[reedonly]

Bart's development is about a year behind. Even though he made the majors last season, he did not benefit from getting a full year of minor league development. He should transition to being Posey's backup next season.

[klaiggeb]

Sept 1, 2021 7:19:36 GMT -5 rxmeister said:

Mordy’s crusade against Casali, a BACKUP CATCHER has now reached the point of ridiculousness. Sorry our backup catcher isn’t Johnny Bench. The role of a backup catcher is to fill in for the starter, call a good game and handle the pitching staff. And occasionally get a couple of hits! Casali slumped early, has slumped again recently, but also hit very well for over a month awhile ago. The pitchers have done better with Casali pitching then with Posey, yet Mordy continues to rail, because he misses the finer points of the game. He’d rather have Joey Bart rotting on the bench then playing every day in Sacramento, which makes no sense. Even Joey Bart wouldn’t hit with the sporadic playing schedule of the backup catcher. Give it a rest already!

Thank you, Mark, for pointing out about Joey rotting on the bench. I'm sure Mordy understands the game very well, he just disagrees with us.

[rxmeister]

Of course he does. However when the Giants are losing he loses all rational thought. You should see his in game texts, you would think he should be on meds!

[reedonly]

Earlier in the season when Bart came up for that one day, Krukow said hat the reason why they were keeping him in AAA was to have him learn how to catch with one leg bent under him. In 2020, when he was with the big club, he was either not learning it and Krukow thought that the success he had in college kept him from being more open to what they were trying to teach him. Krukow did say that the 2021 version of Bart compared to the 2020 version was like night and day and he was able to unlearn his college habits and learn what he needed to learn. That said, I feel he's ready.

[rxmeister]

The roster expanding only to 28 in September not like 40 in previous seasons is a huge hindrance here. Hard to carry a third catcher with so many other needs and injuries at other positions. You would think it would be easy to dump someone like Brebbia for Bart, but with the rotation banged up I guess they need every arm they can get. They have bullpen games scheduled for Saturday and Sunday and considering DeSclafani has been so bad this year against the Dodgers, they’ll probably be needed tonight too.

[klaiggeb]

Sept 3, 2021 6:51:50 GMT -5 rxmeister said:

The roster expanding only to 28 in September not like 40 in previous seasons is a huge hindrance here. Hard to carry a third catcher with so many other needs and injuries at other positions. You would think it would be easy to dump someone like Brebbia for Bart, but with the rotation banged up I guess they need every arm they can get. They have bullpen games scheduled for Saturday and Sunday and considering DeSclafani has been so bad this year against the Dodgers, they’ll probably be needed tonight too.

I was thinking the same thing, Mark. Only being able to call up 2 is a killer for us... and likely other teams, too.

I keep reading about, and hearing all the hype about this weekend's series, the hype actually implying it's a toss up, or, that the Dodgers are slight favorites to win.

I don't see it that way.

Sure, we miss Scherzer, but that doesn't change the fact about what you said: We will be having 2 bullpen games.

And from a strategic perspective, we used McGee yesterday, and that means he's available tonight and Sunday. He hasn't been very effective pitching 3 days in a row.


LA is hot right now, we are not.

LA has gotten the vast majority of their key players back, and we keep losing ours.

And most important of all, as you pointed out, DesClafani has been anything BUT effective against the Dodgers.

Now throw in his ankle issue... and it doesn't look promising.



Prior to this 7 game stretch against Milwaukee and LA, I said we'd be lucky to win 1; that one being Logan Webb.

Well, Webb more than did his job yesterday, but he won't throw this weekend.



The one hope upon which I'm hanging every hope is that this team just won't quit.

When everyone says they can't, they often do.


That's an awful slim hope upon which to hang your hat...

[holiday613]

Sept 1, 2021 10:54:43 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

Sept 1, 2021 7:19:36 GMT -5 rxmeister said:

Mordy’s crusade against Casali, a BACKUP CATCHER has now reached the point of ridiculousness. Sorry our backup catcher isn’t Johnny Bench. The role of a backup catcher is to fill in for the starter, call a good game and handle the pitching staff. And occasionally get a couple of hits! Casali slumped early, has slumped again recently, but also hit very well for over a month awhile ago. The pitchers have done better with Casali pitching then with Posey, yet Mordy continues to rail, because he misses the finer points of the game. He’d rather have Joey Bart rotting on the bench then playing every day in Sacramento, which makes no sense. Even Joey Bart wouldn’t hit with the sporadic playing schedule of the backup catcher. Give it a rest already!

Thank you, Mark, for pointing out about Joey rotting on the bench. I'm sure Mordy understands the game very well, he just disagrees with us.

RX doesnt seem to understand how horrible casali is..Not to mention that Buster rests more than most other catchers so Casali gets mote at bats than your standard backup..We cant afford automatic outs in our lineup and thats exactly what casali is

[Islandboagie]

The not hitting thing bothers me somewhat, obviously I don't expect too much from a backup catcher, but if a backup catcher can't hit, he needs to at least stop the running game. You cannot be bad at both and remain at the major league level. But Casali is bad at both, and for some reason Mark and Boly think he's good.

[klaiggeb]

Sept 5, 2021 11:10:10 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

The not hitting thing bothers me somewhat, obviously I don't expect too much from a backup catcher, but if a backup catcher can't hit, he needs to at least stop the running game. You cannot be bad at both and remain at the major league level. But Casali is bad at both, and for some reason Mark and Boly think he's good.

It's not that I think he's good, boagie, but considering where we are at this moment in time, I don't believe Bart is a good option.

Not with the pressure of the pennant race.

Consider: We had Hundley and Vogt...neither one could throw worth a lick, but no one complained about that.

Yes, they both handled the bat much better, that's true.

But in Casali's career, though he's not been the hitter of the caliber of either, he's been pretty decent vs LHP historically.

Very few back up catchers have good arms.

Very, very few.

But what Casali does very well is:

1-block balls

2-Frame pitches well

3-Call an outstanding game.

4-Help young pitchers during an inning.


Do I want him back next year?

No, I do not.

But as I said, right now IMHO, he's our best option.

[Islandboagie]

That's the thing, Boly..he doesn't block balls well. Casali allows a high number of wild pitches and his inability to throw out runners anywhere near the league average, encourages teams to run on him. You could be right that he's good at calling games, but it's hard to know if that's really the case.

Obviously Bart was not called up when I wanted, so there's no reason for me to continue pushing for Bart to take over. I'm not going to beat up on Casali anymore because he is the backup catcher and Bart isn't. I hope he proves me wrong and he plays well from here on out.

[klaiggeb]

Sept 6, 2021 2:03:41 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

That's the thing, Boly..he doesn't block balls well. Casali allows a high number of wild pitches and his inability to throw out runners anywhere near the league average, encourages teams to run on him. You could be right that he's good at calling games, but it's hard to know if that's really the case.

Obviously Bart was not called up when I wanted, so there's no reason for me to continue pushing for Bart to take over. I'm not going to beat up on Casali anymore because he is the backup catcher and Bart isn't. I hope he proves me wrong and he plays well from here on out.

I guess we're going to disagree about Casali's ability to block balls.


I like his technique a lot, and it's my opinion that he does a better than average job of blocking balls.

He shifts his body quickly and smoothly, gets a good 'lean' towards the pitcher, and squares the ball up nicely, IMHO.

I'm hoping to see Bart next year.

Then again, if Joey is slow developing, or if there are other issues about which I'm not aware, that could explain why they spent such a high draft pick on the kid they drafted, Patrick Bailey.

Reports on Bailey, that I've read, seem better than the reports on Bart.

A good problem to have, though.

[Islandboagie]

When the DH is implemented in the NL I believe the plan is Bailey and Bart will be platooned between catching and DHing. If I'm not mistaken, MLB is wanting to implement the DH next season. It could open up the possibility of seeing that same strategy with Bart and Posey, which is the only reason why they would bring Posey back next season.

Bailey wasn't drafted because they lost confidence in Bart, Boly. Maybe that's why you believe Bart isn't ready...Bart IS ready, they're just sticking with Casali because they want Bart to maintain a starting role and catch almost everyday.

Bart was a #2 overall pick, he's got a .900 OPS at the AAA level without a full season there. He's throwing out 33% of would-be base stealers. This is not someone the Giants have soured on. The Giants are VERY excited about Joey Bart taking us into the future. He's likely the main reason why a deal for a pitcher like Scherzer wasn't made, because I'm sure many of the teams wanted Bart. Which is why Farhan came out in the media and said Joey Bart isn't going anywhere, he was probably tired of getting calls about Bart. But for now they've decided his best place is at AAA, maybe that's the right thing to do...

I just happen to think that #1, we could use Bart's bat in the lineup every 3rd day. #2, he's a viable pinch hitter off the bench. #3 he would stop the running game every 3rd day and #4 he could benefit from being in high pressure, pennant race situations, just like Posey did. Now that's just my opinion, maybe they know something I don't.

I appreciate your opinion about our backup catcher, you may be right..I just believe the high draft picks have a pedigree that can withstand pressure..Posey showed it, Bum showed it, Cain and Lincecum showed it, plus some lower draft choices like Belt, Crawford, Romo, Wilson and Panik also showed it..and the same people that drafted all them, also drafted Bart.

Again, our current management didn't call Bart up, they're sticking with Casali, so my opinion has lost a lot of relevance. Now, I just hope Casali does well and the decision doesn't come back to haunt us.

[klaiggeb]

Sept 6, 2021 12:14:34 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

When the DH is implemented in the NL I believe the plan is Bailey and Bart will be platooned between catching and DHing. If I'm not mistaken, MLB is wanting to implement the DH next season. It could open up the possibility of seeing that same strategy with Bart and Posey, which is the only reason why they would bring Posey back next season.

Bailey wasn't drafted because they lost confidence in Bart, Boly. Maybe that's why you believe Bart isn't ready...Bart IS ready, they're just sticking with Casali because they want Bart to maintain a starting role and catch almost everyday.

Bart was a #2 overall pick, he's got a .900 OPS at the AAA level without a full season there. He's throwing out 33% of would-be base stealers. This is not someone the Giants have soured on. The Giants are VERY excited about Joey Bart taking us into the future. He's likely the main reason why a deal for a pitcher like Scherzer wasn't made, because I'm sure many of the teams wanted Bart. Which is why Farhan came out in the media and said Joey Bart isn't going anywhere, he was probably tired of getting calls about Bart. But for now they've decided his best place is at AAA, maybe that's the right thing to do...

I just happen to think that #1, we could use Bart's bat in the lineup every 3rd day. #2, he's a viable pinch hitter off the bench. #3 he would stop the running game every 3rd day and #4 he could benefit from being in high pressure, pennant race situations, just like Posey did. Now that's just my opinion, maybe they know something I don't.

I appreciate your opinion about our backup catcher, you may be right..I just believe the high draft picks have a pedigree that can withstand pressure..Posey showed it, Bum showed it, Cain and Lincecum showed it, plus some lower draft choices like Belt, Crawford, Romo, Wilson and Panik also showed it..and the same people that drafted all them, also drafted Bart.

Again, our current management didn't call Bart up, they're sticking with Casali, so my opinion has lost a lot of relevance. Now, I just hope Casali does well and the decision doesn't come back to haunt us.

I agree, boagie, we're likely to see the DH next year, and I for one, want to see it.

From me, that is a startling statement! For ever I have been against the DH in the NL... but after watching our pitcher's pathetic at bats, and even worse, they just as pathetic inability to bunt the darned baseball, I'm for getting them out of the batter's box!

I'm glad you passed on your thoughts about how the DH would effect us next year, boagie, because honestly, I never considered a Posey/Bart duo sharing the Catching and DH jobs.

That's a pretty good idea.

And based upon some of the stuff you posted, you obviously know much more about our farm system than I do.

I just don't get excited about guys until I get to see them.


If... and I say it's a big IF... Washington was asking for Bart for either Scherzer or Turner and wouldn't take anything less... then how did both end up in LA for basically nothing?

I forget who the players were but with our farm we likely could have matched what they gave up.

Obviously this whole scenario is not sitting well with me.

I love what Farhan has done for us. IMHO, it's more than any GM has ever done... but I'm still left wondering...

[Islandboagie]

I am quite surprised that you want to see the DH, Boly. I don't, but I won't stop watching if it happens. I have always preferred the NL style of baseball. In the NL we've always seen more strategic moves late in the game. More bunts, more pinch hitting, more lefty righty matchups..but that style of play is already leaving us due to the 3 batter rule, the game is already getting ready for the universal DH, perhaps that was the plan all along. Implement the 3 batter rule to frustrate NL teams into agreeing to the DH. I don't like it, but I've accepted it. I just hope they ditch the 3 batter rule when the NL DH becomes reality.