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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 12, 2021 10:39:09 GMT -5
Based upon what we've all seen from our Starting Pitchers since the break, it is my opinion that we are all going to lament, as I believe Farhan is already doing, the fact that he wasn't able to get us any starting pitching.
Remember, the guy I wanted was not a big time reliever, but Kyle Gibson.
Consider what has happened since the break: Only Logan Webb has turned in solid performances in most of his starts
Gausman, for whatever reason, has not been even close, save for 1 start, to what he was. Hey! Make no mistake; I sympathize and empathize with the problems his wife has been having.
But the fact is, last night AGAIN, he struggled with command even though his stuff was very good.
That must stop and stop soon for us to have any chance to go far in the postseason.
Desclafani has been terrible since the break, and now we find is suffering from a tired arm! I'm very curious how he will respond to 10 days off.
Cueto, as I've pointed out, is painful to watch, has not commanded the strike zone early in games, so much so that we are often behind before we even get to the 3rd inning. And now he's on the IL...again!
Wood I've said this before about hitters and pitchers; the more 'funky' or awkward the mechanics are, the more difficult it is to maintain any consistency.
And because of that in ability to keep his mechanics tight (meaning under control), he struggles with his release point and thus he has repeatedly shown he's really no more than a 4 or 5 inning pitcher.
Only Logan Webb is pulling his weight, and he keeps getting better and better.
Here's the deal, as I see it:
If things with our starters don't change, and change soon...our bullpen will be burned out by the time we reach September.
No team hoping to go far in the post season can expect the bullpen to pitch 4 or more innings night after night after night and be successful.
Farhan was right when he said his primary concern was starting pitching.
And it's my opinion we are all going to regret his inability to land one.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 12, 2021 11:55:26 GMT -5
I wanted at least Daniel Hudson
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 12, 2021 16:15:03 GMT -5
He would have been a nice add.
Me? I just saw the HUGE, HUGE hole after Cueto, whom I perceived to BE the biggest hole in the rotation that we had.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 13, 2021 9:39:37 GMT -5
I think if there was a trade possibility for a pitcher that made sense for us Zaidi would have made it happen.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 13, 2021 10:15:40 GMT -5
All along, I was hoping that Zaidi would not trade away our premium prospects and he didn't. The Nationals seem to have gotten a pretty decent sinkerballer for Hudson even though the prospect is a bit rough around the edges. I'm thinking it would have taken someone like a Sam Long to get Hudson, in which case, I would hang on and not make the trade. At this point, I'd rather hang on to our own pitchers than to get a rental.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 13, 2021 16:14:53 GMT -5
I think if there was a trade possibility for a pitcher that made sense for us Zaidi would have made it happen.
Wasn't meant to be...for sure, but I hope and pray this inability to get a starter doesn't come back to bite us in the fanny.
I also see we've added the likes of Kazmir, and Tyler Chadwick, among othees, to our farm system for emergencies.
I sure hope we don't need either!
Chadwick has great stuff but struggles to throw strikes!
And has struggled since he got to the show!
Career 4.7 BB / 9 ip... and in 2018, it was 8.2 BB/9ip!
The one saving grace is what Alex Pavlovic pointed out last night on the pregame: we don't have room on the 40 man roster to activate any of them, and aren't like to have any room either.
My best guess is that tomorrow they give the start to Sammy Long.
I'd rather that than a bullpen game. |
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 14, 2021 10:08:34 GMT -5
I think you mean Tyler Chatwood. I doubt he's anywhere close to getting a start at the major league level. I think they got him to see if they could iron out his control issues and maybe then they would start him. Since they just picked him up I doubt they have had enough time to fix the problem. One thing we know about Zaidi, he likes pitchers who throw strikes. At this point I'd imagine there's a handful of guys in line ahead of him as possible emergency starters. I could be wrong.
As for Kazmir, I thought they released him so he could go play for the U.S. in the Olympics, is he back now?
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 14, 2021 19:20:25 GMT -5
I think you mean Tyler Chatwood. I doubt he's anywhere close to getting a start at the major league level. I think they got him to see if they could iron out his control issues and maybe then they would start him. Since they just picked him up I doubt they have had enough time to fix the problem. One thing we know about Zaidi, he likes pitchers who throw strikes. At this point I'd imagine there's a handful of guys in line ahead of him as possible emergency starters. I could be wrong. As for Kazmir, I thought they released him so he could go play for the U.S. in the Olympics, is he back now?
According to Pavlovic on Thursday night's pregame show, both of them are now at Sacramento.
Swell.
Just what we needed; 2 guys who can't help us. |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 14, 2021 20:01:24 GMT -5
I have read that Chatwood might be a Pomerantz type project. If the can fix him, he can be used if there is an emergency. If not, small loss. Also, Jake Arrietta might land up with us, also. Similar situation.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 14, 2021 22:49:15 GMT -5
Tyler's problem has always been throwing strikes. As far as Jake, having watched him pitch this season and last season I think he's simply done.
Having good stuff is one thing, but just like Sammy long tonight, if you can throw strikes, quality strikes, you're not going to be here very long. And Tyler has had more than enough chances to prove that he can throw strikes and he hasn't.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 15, 2021 10:37:26 GMT -5
With regards to Chatwood, there are some guys you can fix and some you can't. There is little risk in bringing on Chatwood to a minor league deal but I would suspect that he is a guy who cannot be fixed. The organization is thin at the upper levels in terms of starting pitching so we can see why they would try this. I would also suspect they would make a run at Arrietta. We would not be having this conversation if they could fix Beede, another guy that at the moment cannot be fixed.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 15, 2021 11:11:55 GMT -5
Boly, I saw that you mentioned Kyle Gibson as the guy you wanted. He went to the Phillies and it cost them their #1 pitching prospect Spencer Howard. We don't have anything like that to give up.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 15, 2021 23:34:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the update. I hadn't heard that.
I wanted Kyle, but there was no way I would have paid that high of a price for him.
The price tag must have been the reason farhan and couldn't work out a deal
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 15, 2021 23:57:12 GMT -5
I'd prefer they drop the fix-it projects and focus their efforts on the young pitchers and their lack of stamina.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 16, 2021 9:06:37 GMT -5
Bingo!
I couldn't agree more!
I am flat out sick of 5 inning pitchers!
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Post by reedonly on Aug 16, 2021 9:09:04 GMT -5
Instead of merely stamina, I'd like to see them learn how to pitch the third time through the lineup.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 16, 2021 9:10:50 GMT -5
Cocerning Kyle Gibson, Boston fans were complaining also but Bloom did not want to give up what the Phillies did. The Sox are in a similiar boat as we are with the rebuild slightly ahead of schedule.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 16, 2021 10:11:59 GMT -5
Pitchers get hit around the third time through the lineup because they're running out of gas. As the game wears on they pitch lazy, velocity drops, breaking pitches don't break as much..etc.
But even if it is just a matter of learning how to pitch deep into the game, how can they learn if they're yanked after the 4th or 5th inning? This is something they should be working on prior to getting to the big leagues. All too often they limit young pitching prospects outings to 4 or 5 innings in the minors, they get called up to the majors and they're expected to go 7 when the bullpen needs a rest.
They should be conditioning more aggressively. Throwing 120+ pitches should be routine for them. If you're consistently throwing 80 pitches and all of a sudden you're asked to throw 100+, you're either going to get knocked around, or you're going to hurt yourself.
Their conditioning should be MORE strenuous than the game itself.
Take long distance running for example, they don't train for a 10 mile race by running 5 miles, they run 15, 20 miles..some run all day long, some never stop running. They build up that stamina so the race itself is easy to the point they can put forth max effort. That's how I'd like to see our pitchers being conditioned. Not just our starters, our relievers shouldn't be tapped out after one inning either.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 16, 2021 15:20:03 GMT -5
Agreed boagie. I think the trend is to pitch hard from the get go but no longer do pitchers learn to pace themselves or learn to change speeds. It’s a speed game now. I do miss the old days where CG was expected from the starter.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 16, 2021 16:18:05 GMT -5
Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling threw hard and they threw hard for the entire 7-9 innings that was asked of them. They could do the same thing today and be as successful because their conditioning would allow it. Not sure why players today aren't held to the same standard.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 16, 2021 20:30:58 GMT -5
Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling threw hard and they threw hard for the entire 7-9 innings that was asked of them. They could do the same thing today and be as successful because their conditioning would allow it. Not sure why players today aren't held to the same standard.
But history is replete with pitchers who did not throw gas and went deep into games.
As you pointed out, the guys from this generation are 'taught' that 5 innings is a good outting.
Crimenee! the way things are going, soon there will be 14 man pens! |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 16, 2021 20:44:20 GMT -5
It is a number of things, not just poor conditioning. Its sabermetrics, agents wanting to protect their clients, teams wanting to protect their pitchers, hitters are bigger and stroger now. Also, in little league, there are manadatory pitch limits and rest days. They even implicate umpires calling a smaller strike zone. Guys like Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, and Jack McKeon don't like pitch counts and they know a little something about pitching.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 17, 2021 13:02:14 GMT -5
Those times have changed, Boly. I don't think the soft throwing pitchers of the past would survive in today's game. Batters aren't fooled by much anymore unless they have to worry about hard stuff.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 17, 2021 20:55:16 GMT -5
Those times have changed, Boly. I don't think the soft throwing pitchers of the past would survive in today's game. Batters aren't fooled by much anymore unless they have to worry about hard stuff.
And remember, they guys of the past (50's-70's) were not soft throwers.
They likely hit the mid 90's quite a bit.
But they PITCHED, and that's what's missing today. At least to a large part.
Marichal, Drysdale, Koufax, Spahn, Gibson, Bunning, Short, McClain, Lollich, all would have been very successful today.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 17, 2021 20:56:23 GMT -5
Well, Chatwood is on the active roster, Jackson sent down and Beede to the 60 day IL.
But Chatwood?
Oh, dear Lord!
Another non-strike thrower is back in the show. |
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