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Post by holiday613 on Aug 9, 2021 9:47:33 GMT -5
Just an incredible series.. We went toe to toe with a damn good team and against two of the premier pitchers in the game and came out on top.. Throw in how the bullpen was gassed and this makes winning the series even more remarkable.. What can I say, Farhan is a genius and seems to always be pushing the right buttons.. All the small pieces he scooped up seems to fit into a beautiful mosaic of a team.. Many here pissed on the Zaidi signing.. Time to apologize...
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 9, 2021 10:43:04 GMT -5
Yes! I'm really glad you said that. Thank God we finally got a GM that stopped making horrible decisions like signing Posey, Belt and Crawford to long term deals. Oh wait...
As much as I like Yazstremski, Ruf, Flores, Solano, and the other gems Zaidi has found, the core of our team and the main reason for our success are players that sabermetric savy posters considered as albatross contracts that needed to go.
Yes, I like Zaidi thus far, he's added some nice pieces to our team, and please feel free to pat yourself on the back. But make no mistake...without Posey, Crawford, Belt and Longoria we'd probably be well behind the Padres.
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Post by holiday613 on Aug 9, 2021 11:35:56 GMT -5
Yes! I'm really glad you said that. Thank God we finally got a GM that stopped making horrible decisions like signing Posey, Belt and Crawford to long term deals. Oh wait... As much as I like Yazstremski, Ruf, Flores, Solano, and the other gems Zaidi has found, the core of our team and the main reason for our success are players that sabermetric savy posters considered as albatross contracts that needed to go. Yes, I like Zaidi thus far, he's added some nice pieces to our team, and please feel free to pat yourself on the back. But make no mistake...without Posey, Crawford, Belt and Longoria we'd probably be well behind the Padres. We had that core for half a decade and did squat.. The complimentary pieces Farhan added made the team deep and able to overcome injuries to the core group.. I give Farhan 1000% total credit.. He didn't trade the vets and brought in the finishing pieces and more importantly did it in the cheap where we now have the purse strings to make a splash in the FA mkt if he so chooses |
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 9, 2021 19:54:38 GMT -5
I agree with everything you said in the first post, up until you said it's time to apologize. I agree with your second post too. I can't speak for anyone else but I didn't piss all over the decision to hire Zaidi. I hated the Kapler hire, I'm still not 100% sold on Kapler, but I do like the way he gets offensive matchups late in the game. He's as good at getting those matchups as Bochy was at getting the matchups on the pitching side. Obviously now the hitters have the overwhelming advantage late in the game because of the 3 batter rule and Kapler has done a masterful job at exploiting that.
With Zaidi, I was very much open to seeing what he could do. I wasn't enamored with the idea that sabermetrics might be taking over, and maybe in the future it might become too much a part, but for now I think they found a nice balance of old school and new school, which is a big part of the success. Yes, Zaidi has done a really nice job, but he's gotta bring home a Championship until I really sing his praises.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 10, 2021 9:30:09 GMT -5
The Belt, Crawford, Longo and Posey deals that you’re giving Evans and Sabean credit for, were actually bad contracts as those players were aging rapidly until Zaidi and his merry men of analytical and coaching experts got here to work with them. Posey and Crawford have completely changed their swings and approach at the plate with their help. They’re also in walk years and have “conveniently” got themselves into their best possible shape. And imagine if Zaidi wasn’t tied down with their combined $100 million of payroll what he could have done, considering what he’s done with a shoestring budget. The entire pitching staff is Zaidi, and the only pitcher not pulling his weight is the only holdover from the previous regime, Johnny Cueto. And if the previous regime was still here they would have wasted another $100 million on over the hill Bumgarner. As for Kapler, he’s NL manager of the year and it’s not even close.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 10, 2021 10:32:09 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you said, Mark. Although, I don't believe Posey has completely changed his swing, I think a lot his success comes from fresh legs after having a year off. But I agree, whoever is the brain behind altering their swings, slightly or drastically, knows what they're doing. If you recall, I was never a fan of Muelens. So I'm glad to see slumps aren't lasting half a season anymore.
I will say it again, I like the job Zaidi and company have done. But I cannot fathom how our previous coaching staff and management are so disrespected after 3 Championships. Not to mention the players held over from that regime are leading the way this season.
Sabean's footprints are still very much a part of what you see currently on our major league roster AND the high levels of our farm system. I'm pretty sure Duggar and Slater also contributed significantly season, did they not?
You're right that the pitching staff is almost entirely Farhan's, except you forgot Webb, who was drafted by Sabean and Co. I agree, Cueto has been the weakest link of our rotation, but Webb since the All-Star break has undoubtedly been our strongest.
I'm overly critical at times, but more times than not I give credit where credit is due and I admit when I was wrong. Maybe you should start doing the same.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 11, 2021 9:19:05 GMT -5
I remember every time after we won the WS, some other teams would point to ours saying that they needed to copy what Sabean was doing. However, that kind of talk would come up with other World Series winners, such as Chicago or Houston. The real trick is not to copy what successful people do but to stay ahead of a game that is constantly changing.
Sabean looked like a genius because he appeared to be anti-sabermetric. The truth is that Giants at that time figured out how to combine sabermetrics and the eye test in their evaluations. Articles from 2012 would suggest that they were working on things like pitch framing, defensive reactions, and motion sensors long before other teams and they were doing it in stealth mode. Oakland is not the only team with close proximity to Silicon Valley.
Sportswriters at the time just thought it was Sabean's eye for talent. They would point to guys like Gregor Blanco or Sergio Romo and say these do not fit the sabermetric ideal so it must be their heart. Sabean has always been the kind of guy who is always tight lipped about things. If he had a secret edge, he would not go around bragging about it because he knows other people will copy him. What happened was that teams like Chicago, Houston, and Tampa Bay figured out something else and the game changed.
Zaidi, Harris and Kapler are one of the first to have multiple people break down each aspect of the player, whether it be movement, psychological, nutritional, or positioning. Later on, they might appear to be less successful when other teams start to figure out what the Giants are doing and start to copy them. Just as everyone is employing defensive shifts these days, we will start to see other teams with armies of coaches. By that time, Farhan and Co will need to figure out another thing to give them the edge. Just as with Sabean, the current management team probably works on things we haven't really considered.
Last couple of years we were hoping that Farhan would trade everyone off and start a rebuild. To his credit, he recognized that the team could be improved more from within rather than from making trades.
The game is changing fast and its a tough situation when you have have 29 other teams, some of which are also very smart. Maybe the game will evolve again where everyone is working off of an ipad and they figure out that the championship edge is talent.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 11, 2021 10:48:09 GMT -5
Yes! I'm really glad you said that. Thank God we finally got a GM that stopped making horrible decisions like signing Posey, Belt and Crawford to long term deals. Oh wait... As much as I like Yazstremski, Ruf, Flores, Solano, and the other gems Zaidi has found, the core of our team and the main reason for our success are players that sabermetric savy posters considered as albatross contracts that needed to go. Yes, I like Zaidi thus far, he's added some nice pieces to our team, and please feel free to pat yourself on the back. But make no mistake...without Posey, Crawford, Belt and Longoria we'd probably be well behind the Padres. We had that core for half a decade and did squat.. The complimentary pieces Farhan added made the team deep and able to overcome injuries to the core group.. I give Farhan 1000% total credit.. He didn't trade the vets and brought in the finishing pieces and more importantly did it in the cheap where we now have the purse strings to make a splash in the FA mkt if he so chooses
Farhan has really shown an excellent eye for talent from what some might refer to as the scrap heap.
But boagie is right, too.
Seriously, though, did anyone here see coming what Belt, Crawford and Posey have done?
Not me!
In fact, I posted something to that effect back in March and April that I would move them at the deadline and get what I could for them. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 11, 2021 10:52:31 GMT -5
I agree with everything you said in the first post, up until you said it's time to apologize. I agree with your second post too. I can't speak for anyone else but I didn't piss all over the decision to hire Zaidi. I hated the Kapler hire, I'm still not 100% sold on Kapler, but I do like the way he gets offensive matchups late in the game. He's as good at getting those matchups as Bochy was at getting the matchups on the pitching side. Obviously now the hitters have the overwhelming advantage late in the game because of the 3 batter rule and Kapler has done a masterful job at exploiting that. With Zaidi, I was very much open to seeing what he could do. I wasn't enamored with the idea that sabermetrics might be taking over, and maybe in the future it might become too much a part, but for now I think they found a nice balance of old school and new school, which is a big part of the success. Yes, Zaidi has done a really nice job, but he's gotta bring home a Championship until I really sing his praises.
I said at the time that I'd take a wait and see attitude, and I have frequently posted that my initial impressions of Farhan were way off base.
He's as good a GM as we've ever had, and frankly, based upon what he's accomplished, I put him just a tad behind Sabean.
And I only rank Sabean ahead because of who he drafted: Lincecum, Cain, Posey, Crawford and Belt.
When/if Farhan wins a championship or 2, or maybe even before, I'd slide Farhan ahead simply because of the non-big name players who have excelled with us.
Wade, Ruff, Yaz, Gausman, Desclafani, Garcia, Rogers, Leone and others whose names escape my mind at the moment.
A team simply CANNOT win unless they have the proper role players available on the bench when needed. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 11, 2021 10:55:18 GMT -5
I agree with everything you said in the first post, up until you said it's time to apologize. I agree with your second post too. I can't speak for anyone else but I didn't piss all over the decision to hire Zaidi. I hated the Kapler hire, I'm still not 100% sold on Kapler, but I do like the way he gets offensive matchups late in the game. He's as good at getting those matchups as Bochy was at getting the matchups on the pitching side. Obviously now the hitters have the overwhelming advantage late in the game because of the 3 batter rule and Kapler has done a masterful job at exploiting that. With Zaidi, I was very much open to seeing what he could do. I wasn't enamored with the idea that sabermetrics might be taking over, and maybe in the future it might become too much a part, but for now I think they found a nice balance of old school and new school, which is a big part of the success. Yes, Zaidi has done a really nice job, but he's gotta bring home a Championship until I really sing his praises.
I said at the time that I'd take a wait and see attitude, and I have frequently posted that my initial impressions of Farhan were way off base.
He's as good a GM as we've ever had, and frankly, based upon what he's accomplished, I put him just a tad behind Sabean.
And I only rank Sabean ahead because of who he drafted: Lincecum, Cain, Posey, Crawford and Belt.
When/if Farhan wins a championship or 2, or maybe even before, I'd slide Farhan ahead simply because of the non-big name players who have excelled with us.
Wade, Ruff, Yaz, Gausman, Desclafani, Garcia, Rogers, Leone and others whose names escape my mind at the moment.
A team simply CANNOT win unless they have the proper role players available on the bench when needed.
My early impressions that he was a plastic man with no sincerity in him what-so-ever.
But based upon the way the team has embraced him, my impressions don't mean squat.
I mean, he has gotten the entire team to buy into his philosophy, and IMHO, any opinions to the contrary are misplaced.
One simply cannot argue with what he has accomplished to this point in time.
The best record in baseball for going on 2 months now?
I would be a moron to over look his contributions to that! |
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 11, 2021 11:01:47 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you said, Mark. Although, I don't believe Posey has completely changed his swing, I think a lot his success comes from fresh legs after having a year off. But I agree, whoever is the brain behind altering their swings, slightly or drastically, knows what they're doing. If you recall, I was never a fan of Muelens. So I'm glad to see slumps aren't lasting half a season anymore. I will say it again, I like the job Zaidi and company have done. But I cannot fathom how our previous coaching staff and management are so disrespected after 3 Championships. Not to mention the players held over from that regime are leading the way this season. Sabean's footprints are still very much a part of what you see currently on our major league roster AND the high levels of our farm system. I'm pretty sure Duggar and Slater also contributed significantly season, did they not? You're right that the pitching staff is almost entirely Farhan's, except you forgot Webb, who was drafted by Sabean and Co. I agree, Cueto has been the weakest link of our rotation, but Webb since the All-Star break has undoubtedly been our strongest. I'm overly critical at times, but more times than not I give credit where credit is due and I admit when I was wrong. Maybe you should start doing the same.
In fact, didn't most of those crazy-bad contracts come when Bobby Evans was driving the bus?
My memory might be wrong, as it frequently is, but as for me, I give Sabean tons of credit!
Look at his drafts, for Heaven's sake!
Timmy, Matt, Buster, the Brandons...just to name a few.
I just prefer the way Farhan drives the bus.
To me, he is not short sighted because he doesn't make the mistake of signing near-the-end-of-their-career veterans.
He has an eye to the future which I see in getting players like Yaz, Wade, Gausman, Deslcafini, Bryan and Dickerson and so many others.
Now it's true, Gaus, Bryant and Desclafini might choose not to return, but I'd be willing to take a bet that at least 2 of them resign with us.
I would also point to Logan Webb. What the staff has done with him is flat out outstanding!
What Beede wasn't able to harness, Webb has. |
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 12, 2021 2:26:39 GMT -5
Reed, I missed your post until just now, and I agree 100%. I too believe Sabean and his crew were using sabermetrics at some level and hiding it from the public. I've posted here numerous times about how all the hidden gems found by Sabean can't just be dumb luck, nor can 3 Championships. I don't think Sabean and his guys had the same grasp on nutrition or conditioning that Zaidi, Kapler and co. do. Sabean instead built the dynasty heavily on the character factor. I believe he saw during the Bonds and Kent years and the Alou mistake that poor characters in the clubhouse can have a negative affect on the field as much as anything else. That's where Bochy came into play, as well as the acquisitions of Molina, Rowand, and Burrell.
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Post by reedonly on Aug 12, 2021 9:00:33 GMT -5
Baseball has gotten to the point where everyone is copying each other and is pretty much trying to do the same thing. The margin for success has gotten smaller and smaller as the years have gone on. This is an article from 2012. I think this was in response to an earlier Bruce Jenkins column about Sabean being anti-sabermetric. bleacherreport.com/articles/1391699-san-francisco-giants-dynasty-the-role-of-moneyball-for-the-world-series-champsWhat is interesting to me is that it wasn't Moneyball but kind of the next iteration.... Moneyball 2.0. Bruce Jenkins is a good writer but for this subject, he did not do the research or he was trying too hard to latch on to the perceived anti-sabermetric trend that he thought was happening at the time. As I mentioned before, everybody is trying to do the same thing. I think they are looking at teams like Oakland, Houston, and Tampa Bay the most. Zaidi used to work for Oakland and Dodgers, Harris from the Cubs, and remember, we were also considering Bloom and Espada. Every team to some degree is now using defensive shifts and promoting launch angles and to be honest, most every team knows what every other team is doing and if they don't know, they can find out pretty quickly. That said, I would love it if the Giants could find a way to counter all of the current baseball trends. It might take a return to some form of small ball or even heart, character, and ability. |
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Post by reedonly on Aug 13, 2021 10:40:49 GMT -5
A more fairer comparison to Farhan would be Chaim Bloom. Bloom was a guy I was hoping that they would hire instead of Farhan. I thought that Bloom's resume was stronger because of the Tampa connection. Bloom is no slouch, by any means. He is a shrewd evaluator of players and has established a pretty formidable analytics department. However, I think Farhan's vision of baseball operations is even wider than Bloom's. Farhan has done what Bloom has done with the Sox but seems to weaponize the use of the roster and with the large coaching staff, is able to focus on how every little muscle movement contributes. Now we can see why he was chosen.
Also, this was probably why Kapler was hired. It's likely that the Tampa bench coach and Espada would be struggling at about .500 right now. I can't seem to pinpoint what he is doing but the players have bought in, even the vets.
I didn't want Farhan and I didn't really didn't want Kapler. Like Boly, I thought Kapler was a poseur and could not stand his posturing. I'm happy to be wrong.
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