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Feb 12, 2021 12:25:42 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Feb 12, 2021 12:25:42 GMT -5
When we first hired Farhan I didn't like the move.
I was critical, highly critical, but I also said I'd be willing to give him a year or two and then re evaluate.
Well, I've re evaluated and have come to the conclusion that I was wrong.
Dead wrong.
He has done nothing but make mostly solid moves for us in his time with the Giants, and what he has done this off season, IMHO, is outstanding.
Yeah, some of these guys might not work, but he brought in a fair amount of talent, guys with good upside, and now it's up to THEM to make it or get lost in the proverbial shuffle.
In particular, outside of the re signing of Gausmann, I love the acquisitions of DesClafani, La Stella and Casali.
That's not to take away from his other moves, but those are my 3 favorites.
We'll see how it all works out, and unless LA and San Diego lose half their teams to injury, we are NOT even going to contend in the west, but those guys will make us competitive, and if they give us some kids to watch, should make the season as fun as possible.
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Feb 14, 2021 12:38:21 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Feb 14, 2021 12:38:21 GMT -5
Zaidi and his guys are great at scouting out scrap heap position players. Then they heavily draft position players. On top of that, their focus internationally seems to be position players.
Position players, position players, position players...
Where are the pitchers?
One thing I learned by witnessing the Dynasty we built in 2010-2014 is pitching and defense wins Championships. You might have a good record in the regular season with a stacked lineup, but to go deep in the post-season you need pitching.
Some may say the game has changed, you hafta hit homeruns blah blah blah..
Look at the Yankees, they've had a monster lineup these last few years, but because their pitching fell short, they have struggled to go deep into October.
Last year when the Dodgers won the Covid World Series, they had a good lineup, but they also had a deep pitching staff. By the way, last year's World Series should have an asterisk by it, it didn't REALLY count.
The year before, the Astros too had a nice lineup, but their pitching staff separated them from the rest...along with some cameras and garbage cans.
I would like to see Zaidi and his guys start to focus on drafting and scouting pitching for the next few years. We have a nice offense now, but last year we got outscored a lot because our pitching was atrocious and I don't see much improvement going into this season.
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Feb 14, 2021 19:24:00 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Feb 14, 2021 19:24:00 GMT -5
I'm thinking that the 2020 Dodger pitching staff would not have survived the rigors of a 162 game season. A 60 games season played right into their hands. That being said, our own pitching probably would have been ravaged if the staffhad to go 162. We simply do not have enough pitching depth. I know Farhan likes going after position players because they provide more bang for the buck but I was a bit disappointed by the selection of Bailey. I would have opted to select a pitcher because the roster is so thin at pitching.
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Feb 14, 2021 23:44:00 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Feb 14, 2021 23:44:00 GMT -5
I guess one could argue that Farhan and management like the arms they have in the minors.
He seems to be sticking to the plan that he put forth in 2018, and that was to stay competitive until the guys down on the farm are ready and then bring them up go from there
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Feb 21, 2021 23:08:52 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Feb 21, 2021 23:08:52 GMT -5
One could argue that, Boly. But if you look at the top 5 Giants prospects, all of them are position players. Of the young pitchers that might make it to the big leagues one day, all are projected to be end of the rotation guys, at best.
To Zaidi and company's credit, they have added a few pitchers in the last few days, but I don't think any of them are going to make a huge impact. We need young frontline starters, not a collection of scrap heap pitchers nobody else wants.
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Feb 22, 2021 21:34:24 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Feb 22, 2021 21:34:24 GMT -5
No question, you are right, boagie.
I'm just saying that unlike politicians who promise the stars, the moon and the sky...never intending to deliver on any of them, Farhan said what he was going to do... and is doing it.
I also think your observation that he has a good eye for "hitters," but not necessarily that same eye for pitching.
But I was under the impression our farm had some middle to top of the rotation guys.
Cory, Harrison, Santos and Hjelle.
Yes? No?
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Feb 23, 2021 20:58:33 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Feb 23, 2021 20:58:33 GMT -5
Maybe in the minors.
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Feb 24, 2021 11:21:16 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Feb 24, 2021 11:21:16 GMT -5
Hmmm. We must be reading different reports then, boagie.
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Mar 1, 2021 11:53:00 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 1, 2021 11:53:00 GMT -5
They may develop into something special, but none of them are can't miss prospects like Bumgarner or Lincecum. Any of them might fall off and not get to the majors, that was never really a worry for Lincecum or Bum. I hope I'm wrong.
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Mar 1, 2021 22:53:07 GMT -5
Post by reedonly on Mar 1, 2021 22:53:07 GMT -5
None of the guys in the minors project to be aces like Lincecum, Bumgarner, or Cain. Correy at best might be a number two and the rest might be about average. Because of the pandemic, the jury is out on the development team. It would be nice if the coaches can help to refine the young pitchers but for now, we just don't know. I'm not sure what they saw in Hunter Bishop or Bailey that led the Giants to select them instead of pitchers.
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Mar 2, 2021 11:07:29 GMT -5
Post by garyd4sf on Mar 2, 2021 11:07:29 GMT -5
I always thought picking pitchers as "Sure things" was impossible. The science of it (speed, control, etc.) can work but there is also longevity, arm strength, etc. that mitigates success and is is less measurable.
Just for kicks I went back to Baseball Americas rundown of the recent NL West list of possible 10 best players in their organization: The result was Arizona- #6,7,8 and 10 were pitchers. Colorado had #3,6 and 10. LAD had #2,5, and 8. Padres had #1, 3,5, and 9. The Giants had just #5 Kyle Harrison, and #9 Seth Corry. Just as talked about, the Giants haven't had much emphasis here.
But pitching with 95 MPH fast balls being a major issue here leads to variables resulting in tons more Tommy John surgery and variation with one huge season being non repeatable for the majority of pitchers. I think Farhan feels that other organization can develop guys, and he can buy them.
Look at the Giants leaders like most recently Lincecum, and Bumgarner. Great years.... but Lincecum was always the freak due to physical limits and Madbum is now in that 'gosh is he in decline stage?'. Even the Dodgers stalwart Kershaw has surpassed 16 wins just 3 times in his 13 year career (18, 21,21) in regular season. And he hasn't been signed going forward. Look at all the 'saviors' of the pitching staffs that have gotten big contracts recently- not too many saviors for their new club.
Not to demean a consistent pitcher but the odds are lessened nowadays IMO. For instance no way would I offer Kershaw a big or long contract at his stage.
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Mar 2, 2021 22:08:01 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 2, 2021 22:08:01 GMT -5
No, I wouldn't offer Kershaw a contract now either. That's why if you want a successful pitching staff you have to get pitchers while they're still young and durable, which is nearly impossible unless you draft them.
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Mar 3, 2021 2:02:07 GMT -5
Post by garyd4sf on Mar 3, 2021 2:02:07 GMT -5
I don't disagree that you need that #1 if possible to come from your farm club and have him wrapped up for 5-6 solid years but like most guys with a super year they take the enticing free agency route more often than not. If you have a good fielding and hitting lineup it will make your teams Regular Season look that much better. Example Lincecum and Mad Bum who had a solid 6-7 year group behind them. The key for both pitchers was that they were both tough and consistent competitors.
Watching the LA Dodgers, they have that one very competitive guy in Kershaw, with 13 years on LAD-- but his future is to become a more likely #2-3 pitcher. They got Bauer, and his numbers are very good at times but at 11 years he isn't a burst out guy IMO. Buehler looked solid two years ago and may be the Kershaw replacement but Price is a journeyman and Urias is a once very 5th start or so above average game pitcher and rarely gets to the 5th inning. San Diego might be looked at in the same manner. You can get the hitters you want for your day to day lineup but pitchers are so difficult to depend on.
I think SFG has some guys that could advance but last years coronavirus halted all the minor league advancement capability.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:36:31 GMT -5
Post by klaiggeb on Mar 5, 2021 11:36:31 GMT -5
boagie... they may not have the upside that Lincecum and Bum had, but reports are they will turn out to be solid starters.
I would love a big time ace like Timmy once was, but if our staff consisted of #2's and 3's, I could live with that.
Kind of like in pro football.
It would be NICE to have the # 1 ranked defense, but it's not necessary to win a super bowl.
You just need a GOOD defense.
Give me 4 number 2's and 3's and I think we'd be in great shape.
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Mar 7, 2021 13:56:20 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 7, 2021 13:56:20 GMT -5
That might work for a team with a shutdown bullpen and a stacked lineup, but we don't have either. Our lineup is decent-good, not great. Our bullpen last season was terrible, this season we've added some arms and Moronta is healthy, but there's still a lot of uncertainty there.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I've seen too many times those pitching staffs you're describing get ousted in the post-season early and often. Often times it was us prior to 2010.
We saw the 2010-2014 Giants, Boly. We know the recipe it takes to build a Dynasty...why not at least try a little bit of that strategy again?
I realize another World Series Trophy is probably not in the near future... but I think we need some front end starters, and the mentality that playing .500 is not acceptable. That's what I saw back in the 2008, 2009 seasons. I realize the Dynasty years spoiled me, but I want to see that fire again...I want to have hope.
Right now I see a possible pitching rotation of guys that probably wouldn't be on a roster if it wasn't for us. These are not 2s and 3s...these are 6s and 7s on a good team, with the possible exception of Gausman who is likely to have had a fluke year last season. This is the tone that's being set. What will these guys teach our young kids coming up in the next couple of years? Cueto has had a great career, but he'll be long gone by the time the young kids get to the bigs. Then they'll join a team with a strictly offensive minded manager who's adopted the sabermetric theory of pitching - if you've gone 4 innings without getting shelled you've done your job. I don't like that, that's the recipe for failure.
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