Stealing Signs

[klaiggeb]

Before I begin, let me say up front that I am very, very conflicted on this one.

I mean, consider that stealing signs has been in baseball since its inception.

I tried to steal signs for years... and was not very good at it.

And that prompted me to think about this; how is stealing signs any different than stealing what pitch is coming from recognizing a pitcher's 'tell?'

Hitters are taught from a young age to try and catch the white, or lack there of, of the ball at the top of the pitcher's release point.

A lot of white, breaking ball.

Just a little white, fastball.

By strict definition, Isn't that cheating, too?

Or trying to determine a pitcher's move; as in when to steal and when not to.That has been a part of baseball forever.

Isn't that cheating, too?

I'm not trying to justify what Houston did, but again I ask the question; why is stealing signs cheating?

Signs are given to disguise what a team is doing; literally, to deceive the other team;

I seriously am conflicted on this one.

[Islandboagie]

Being on second base and relaying to the hitter whats coming is one thing, outfitting your stadium with cameras and setting up a relay system is entirely different.

Nothing wrong with the players using their own eyes to find signs or tells to get an advantage but using technology is definitely cheating and wrong.

That doesn't mean I don't believe other teams haven't done similar things. I'm fairly certain the Rockies were purposely juicing the baseballs. I think the Diamondbacks use their air conditioning system to alter the flight of the ball, negatively for the opposing team, and positively for the home team. A lot of teams cheat, the Astros just took it to a new level.

[reedonly]

Supposedly, they were using an Excel based program called "Codebreaker"  which was used to log and decode catchers' signs.  This was used at both home and away games.  Supposedly, Luhnow was in on it. 

Getting back to Arizona, ever since they opened Chase Field, have been manipulating the side panels depending on who was up.  I remember Jon Miller commenting that JT Snow hit a long fly out that would have been a home run a half inning earlier if he were hitting for the home team.  He mentioned that the Diamondbacks were moving the panels constantly during the games letting in more outside wind while the visitors were batting.  Probably still going on to this very day. 

Zaidi has been very quiet about the whole thing. I wonder if there were shenanigans going on while he was with the Dodgers.

[klaiggeb]

Codebreaker?

Wow!

If that's what they were doing, that certainly changes my mind.

Thanks for the info!

[klaiggeb]

Codebreaker?

Wow!

If that's what they were doing, that certainly changes my mind.

Thanks for the info!

[reedonly]

www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/astros/2020/02/07/houston-astros-sign-stealing-scheme-codebreaker/4697247002/

[garyd4sf]

I agree in general. At what stage is passing on a 'tell' not tipping off what is to come? Is one held by sportsmanship not to tell others what they found? Ultimately when a 'tell' is suspected one's own team picks it up and makes the pitcher aware of it and how to fix it.

As spoken above the MLB has been a constant era of cheating and where does it stop? Analytics for instance determines what circumstances are most likely and resulted in the HR splurge where looking for a ball in a certain area of the plate and swinging at a certain level with speed (speed of bat, launch angle, etc.) has made a sort of imbalance in the favor of the batter.

And if the catcher is the problem on signs why not have a changing form of signs as a response. Unfortunately today there is always a simplistic response. Here in LA there were tens of letters to the editor of the LA times saying Houston cheated and they need to be ostracized, but the Dodgers over their long history have been known to bend the rules. For instance some dodger batters and a few relievers have been well suspected but not punished retrospectively for steroids. And at least one (there was more) baserunner was accused of sliding into second base outside the normal allowed area, resulting in injury.

[klaiggeb]

I've always liked Posey's defense, awkward or not, and his arm, but after watching him give signs for years, I've come to the conclusion that he is the WORST I've ever seen at it.

His fingers are BELOW his crotch, which makes it easier for coaches in the boxes to steal signs.

Watch other good catchers; the fingers are NEVER below the crotch, always AT the crotch.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that teams have been stealing pitches from him for years.

[reedonly]

Clayton Kershaw recently admitted that it was on them for not mixing up the signs.

www.dodgersnation.com/dodgers-clayton-kershaw-did-not-mix-signals-in-the-2017-world-series-vs-houston/2020/02/22/