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Post by rxmeister on Nov 12, 2019 22:21:10 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 13, 2019 0:48:20 GMT -5
I hope I'm wrong in thinking this is a piss poor choice. I honestly would have taken just about anyone else.
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 13, 2019 8:09:50 GMT -5
Giants fan base is outraged. So much crap could have been avoided just by naming someone else, hopefully the Giants will make it clear why they thought Kapler was so much better than everyone else that they were willing to take all this criticism on. And as a fan, I sure hope he’s a good manager.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 13, 2019 10:18:06 GMT -5
Do you think the Astros being exposed as cheaters made them go with Kapler instead of Espada? A few days ago Espada sounded like the favorite to land the job.
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 13, 2019 17:33:51 GMT -5
I was thinking that too, but that Kapler press conference was agonizing, hard to believe it could have been as bad with Espada. He would have had to be the ringleader, and who knows? Maybe he was.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 14, 2019 0:51:28 GMT -5
After watching the press conference, I really don't know what to say about the thinking behind hiring him as the manager. He has zero confidence in himself to be a leader. I don't get it. He said really nothing about winning or competing. He basically said with help from Zaidi, Bochy and others he hopes he won't be a total screw up and find himself in the center of another scandal.
Not only do I doubt Kapler as a manager after seeing the press conference, but now I question Zaidi's ability to oversee this transition. Really poor choice. I was starting to warm up to Zaidi, but my faith in him has dropped significantly.
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Post by holiday613 on Nov 14, 2019 3:05:45 GMT -5
So the Giants had the opp to Hire Espada, a young analytical mind from a winning organization and elected to go with Kapler, a gfailure alreay with the Phillies and one embroiled in controversy..Only the Giants...Only the Giants....
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 14, 2019 8:07:14 GMT -5
I got the opposite from the press conference, Boagie. I’ve seen so many of them where the new hire grunts out three lines and then they ask for questions. I don’t remember Bochy’s, but knowing him as I do, no way he was this articulate and interesting. Of course neither style determines whether he’ll be a good manager or not. As for the nature of what he talked about, this was an atypical press conference and this was what everyone wanted him to address, so he really had no choice. Did you hear the questions afterward? Nothing was baseball related. I was disgusted because although it was important, how many times can you address the same topic over and over? Could just one person ask what the payroll will be, will they go after elite or even middle of the road free agents, are they willing to go over the luxury tax, Will they offer long term deals to Bum or Smith, etc. NOT ONE!!! As for the Espada non hire, listening to Kapler talk I can see why they wanted him, because he’s got a big personality and probably charmed the pants off of everyone in the Giants hierarchy. Is it phony? Possibly. We have no idea of course how Espada interviewed, so while he was definitely my preferred hiring, this is why they interview people and don’t hire off of reputation. As to the Astros investigation a story came out yesterday saying that Carlos Beltran was the ringleader, which I’m sure doesn’t surprise Boagie in the least! And oops, Mets! Is your new manager about to be suspended? He clearly denied any wrongdoing in all his interviews.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 14, 2019 10:14:27 GMT -5
I guess we just saw it differently, Mark. As for Beltran, you're right, I'm not surprised.
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 14, 2019 12:35:54 GMT -5
I hope I'm wrong in thinking this is a piss poor choice. I honestly would have taken just about anyone else. I agree bogey. I do not understand why they would pick someone who has so much baggage coming in. He already has a big challenge following Bochy as the manager, but with the baggage he brings whether it's true or not, is going to make it even harder for him to win the team over be there veterans or young players. I find this Choice disturbing, and perplexing. Since knew next to nothing about most of the candidates I expected to be ambivalent about whomever they chose. I did not expect to be angry. My opinion this was not a smart selection. |
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 14, 2019 12:38:11 GMT -5
Giants fan base is outraged. So much crap could have been avoided just by naming someone else, hopefully the Giants will make it clear why they thought Kapler was so much better than everyone else that they were willing to take all this criticism on. And as a fan, I sure hope he’s a good manager. Based upon this Choice, Mark, I think it's going to take a long time for the fan base to be won over. As I said in another thread he comes with so much baggage, that whether it is true or not becomes irrelevant. I think he already has two strikes against him because of that. I am hoping you are correct, that he is a good manager. But proving that is going to take quite a bit of time in my opinion |
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 14, 2019 12:41:01 GMT -5
After watching the press conference, I really don't know what to say about the thinking behind hiring him as the manager. He has zero confidence in himself to be a leader. I don't get it. He said really nothing about winning or competing. He basically said with help from Zaidi, Bochy and others he hopes he won't be a total screw up and find himself in the center of another scandal. Not only do I doubt Kapler as a manager after seeing the press conference, but now I question Zaidi's ability to oversee this transition. Really poor choice. I was starting to warm up to Zaidi, but my faith in him has dropped significantly. Bogey, you echoed my sentiments on far on exactly. I was beginning to warm up to him, having been pretty impressed by the in-season decisions that he made. But this Choice makes me question what he's doing, and it also makes me think that he had his mind made up going in who he was going to select and that he went through the interview process because he had to go through the motions of actually looking like he was considering other candidates I would really like to think I'm wrong in this one, but at the moment I don't think I am |
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 14, 2019 19:04:39 GMT -5
I just read an article in which they said that when kapler was just a candidate for the giant job that the Giants front office got a lot of unsolicited phone calls from Philly players in Philly front office people who were very complimentary to Gabe kapler.
Get address to kind of a person he was in the clubhouse, and if that article is close to true that says a lot for capsular being a good guy to have in the clubhouse
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 15, 2019 9:13:34 GMT -5
Kapler seems like a big friendly guy with a big personality and I can see some players loving him and some players thinking he’s full of it. I’m not saying it correctly I’m sure, but Billy Martin had a great comment about being a successful manager. He said, “Most players will like you, five players will hate you and four players will be undecided. Keep the five that hate you away from the four undecided ones and you’ll be successful!” Buster Posey was at the press conference so it’s a good first step at establishing a relationship with the players.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 15, 2019 13:34:12 GMT -5
I'm sure Kapler is a swell guy, but we need a leadership presence in the clubhouse. From what I'm hearing from multiple reports is Kapler is a nice guy, but falls short on leadership. He has trouble disciplining players or being blunt because he wants to be everyones buddy. I saw no indication of a change in behavior during the press conference either. He talked about how HE needs to be better, and how HE has made mistakes. His focus right now is on himself and his own actions. I think he's too wrapped up in himself to be able to assess other players and how they should be handled. I heard little to nothing during the press conference about what he demands from his players and the expectations of the team. He sounds like he's in some drug rehab situation, not ready to take control of 25 guys who want to win.
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 16, 2019 7:33:33 GMT -5
Totally disagree Boagie. That press conference was designed for Kapler to go out there and talk about himself and the incident, and nothing else. The Giants had to explain the hire and justify it and so did Kapler. Now that it’s over, it will be all about baseball and the future. Zaidi claims he got a bunch of texts from Phillies players supporting him so if you believe him, I think the Giants were satisfied about his ability to deal with the “25 guys who want to win.” Zaidi’s honeymoon period ended with this hire, so I think he’s pretty confident that Kapler will be a good manager.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 16, 2019 11:38:46 GMT -5
Zaidi is the ONLY one that I've seen being 100% comfortable with this.
I'm not ready to say Kapler is going to be a terrible manager, I honestly hope he turns out to be a great manager.
But, how many were interviewed? Nobody was better? Wotus and Muelens are sitting there with 3 championship rings each, no controversies, no 2 years of failed managing...and somehow Kaplers message of "I can be better" moves him ahead of everyone?
What about Vogey or Cain, they didn't want the job? I know Vogey and Cain, and I know they wouldn't need to seek guidance from daddy Farhan to not sweep criminal activities under the rug.
That's really what bothered me about Kapler's press conference, he said that if some difficult situation were to pop up again, he would go to a higher up and discuss what to do. That shows me he is still fully willing to sweep something under the rug, if that's what's decided as the best course.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 17, 2019 11:43:26 GMT -5
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 18, 2019 7:45:12 GMT -5
I respect your opinion, Boagie, but you keep going back to the three world championships and living in the past. Guys like Vogey and Cain have absolutely zero qualifications to be manager. Playing for prior world championship Giants teams is not a qualification. And meanwhile all the names you mention, even Muelens and Wotus who ARE qualified, can’t seem to find managerial jobs anywhere. We don’t have access to interviews so I’m assuming Kapler really set himself above the others, or else the Giants wouldn’t be taking this abuse upon themselves. As for the coconut oil thing, I believe the newer analytics tend to favor that while the tough old guys like Bochy masturbate with pine tar!
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 18, 2019 11:07:22 GMT -5
I do live in the past, because the Giants were good then. I'd like that same mentality to be injected into the team of the future as well.
I'm not trying to bash the Kapler move, I'm merely wondering why him?
You're right, being part of the Giants championship seasons doesn't automatically make one qualified to be a manager, but having leadership qualities does tend to be a crucial characteristic in managing. From a lot of the reports I've read, it would appear Kapler seems to lack those leadership qualities.
I'm still going to root for Kapler, I hope he proves me and the others wrong. But right now I'm still wondering what made them choose him of all people. The press conference never really explained that, at least not to my liking.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 18, 2019 11:14:19 GMT -5
Mark- As for the coconut oil thing, I believe the newer analytics tend to favor that while the tough old guys like Bochy masturbate with pine tar!
Boagie- Good one.
But I guess my reason for posting that is to demonstrate the type of class we now have leading our young players into the future. He's a buddy, not a role model to look up to.
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