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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 1, 2019 10:26:05 GMT -5
This is a quote from an article by Alex Pavlovic:
Around the league, lineups are being handed down from the front office.
Nothing addresses the sorry state of the game, and where baseball is going, than that.
Nothing.
Yes, that's my opinion, but from where I sit, it tells me that GM's have been more arrogant, more self-centered, more egotistical than at any time in history.
Since when does an arrogant, never been in the dugout millennial know more than the manager who's in the dugout every day?
Or even if he's not a millennial, it's the same difference.
They don't know diddly squat about managing personalities I don't care what their back ground.
Because it's NOT the same as managing office personalities.
It just isn't.
That they think they know better is disgusting.
I can't think of a better word to describe them.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 1, 2019 12:04:14 GMT -5
They dont care about personalities and egos. They only care about numbers. This is why the game is losing me
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Post by rxmeister on Oct 2, 2019 8:29:59 GMT -5
I can think of a better word. It’s called smart. I’m amazed at the two of you with your “get off my lawn” mentality. It’s not just sports, it’s the entire world. When you find a better way, you abandon the old one. It’s why people use smart phones instead of the hundred pound phone they had hanging on the wall, air conditioners instead of fans, download music in seconds instead of buying scratchy records in a store, sit in their house and order from Amazon instead of waiting for their day off and heading for the mall. Or head to the mall in fact for one stop shopping instead of driving to ten different stores. Or ecomically, getting away from dirty carcinogenic coal and finding cheaper, cleaner, safer sources of energy. Get out of the way you Brontosauruses, you’re hindering progress!
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Post by Islandboagie on Oct 2, 2019 9:10:17 GMT -5
Smart phones are handy inventions, but overall I think them along with social media has basically made the population significantly dumber. It's been a progress of technology, no doubt, but society has regressed considerably because of it. The invention of the computer was supposed to help us learn and share information easier, but instead most people use it to play Candy Crush and post selfies on Facebook at TGI Fridays happy hour during a "night out with the girls."
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 2, 2019 10:36:25 GMT -5
I can think of a better word. It’s called smart. I’m amazed at the two of you with your “get off my lawn” mentality. It’s not just sports, it’s the entire world. When you find a better way, you abandon the old one. It’s why people use smart phones instead of the hundred pound phone they had hanging on the wall, air conditioners instead of fans, download music in seconds instead of buying scratchy records in a store, sit in their house and order from Amazon instead of waiting for their day off and heading for the mall. Or head to the mall in fact for one stop shopping instead of driving to ten different stores. Or ecomically, getting away from dirty carcinogenic coal and finding cheaper, cleaner, safer sources of energy. Get out of the way you Brontosauruses, you’re hindering progress! Pardon me, Mark, but What?
You think Gm's sending down line ups is a good thing?
If you do, I'm surprised at you. I really, really am.
I'm also insulted that you would ignore all of my other posts where I've said many times that stats and sabermetrics have their place, but they are not the be all and end all of baseball.
I never, EVER said I didn't want the game to evolve.
I never, EVER said that progress wasn't and isn't a good thing.
"Get off my lawn" mentality?
When have I ever said anything to that effect?
Never.
Your comment is insulting.
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 2, 2019 10:39:17 GMT -5
Smart phones are handy inventions, but overall I think them along with social media has basically made the population significantly dumber. It's been a progress of technology, no doubt, but society has regressed considerably because of it. The invention of the computer was supposed to help us learn and share information easier, but instead most people use it to play Candy Crush and post selfies on Facebook at TGI Fridays happy hour during a "night out with the girls." You nailed it, boagie!
Advances in technology or in any aspect of life are good thing.
But they must not be over used or taken to levels for which they were never designed.
I've seen the studies on people, mostly millennials, who have had their phones taken away for hours at a time, and most of the time, they have anxiety attacks, or show some signs of 'addictive withdrawal' symptoms.
Not good.
It's the same with stats.
They have a place; a big place, but they do not tell the whole story and never will.
And to think otherwise is foolish because they can't and don't take into account the 'human' factor.
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Post by rxmeister on Oct 3, 2019 7:11:59 GMT -5
Either you missed my point or I made it badly. I don’t want Zaidi to make the lineup and hand it to the manager. I want Zaidi to sit down with the manager and make suggestions as to why such and such player should bat where. Then the manager explains to Zaidi his rationale in the lineup he wants to use. I want intelligent discussion and for them to always be on the same page. I don’t believe any GM truly makes the lineup and hands it to the manager despite what Randy suggests.
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 3, 2019 10:21:27 GMT -5
I missed that entirely, Mark.
I, too, want discussions.
THAT is the way it should be.
One always should want differing points of view because it opens up perspective.
Unfortunately, based upon Pavlovic's article, many GM'S DO dictate the lineup to managers, and that is a trend that is growing, again, according to him.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Oct 3, 2019 14:12:25 GMT -5
There will not be any discussion...they will look at numbers and plug them into a formula. Some call that smart...I call it lazy. Not all new technology is an improvement
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Post by rxmeister on Oct 4, 2019 9:28:46 GMT -5
How is it lazy, Randy? How is plugging in numbers based on matchups and the strengths and weaknesses of the players and the opponents, lazy? How is doing statistical analysis lazy? It involves thought and effort. It’s the complete opposite of lazy! Lazy is a manager sitting on a bench on his ass and filling out a lineup card without even thinking. Now you can make an intelligent argument as to why the manager can do it better than a computer, and Boly is attempting to do so, but dismissing it as lazy, sure ain’t it!
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Post by klaiggeb on Oct 4, 2019 15:49:48 GMT -5
How is it lazy, Randy? How is plugging in numbers based on matchups and the strengths and weaknesses of the players and the opponents, lazy? How is doing statistical analysis lazy? It involves thought and effort. It’s the complete opposite of lazy! Lazy is a manager sitting on a bench on his ass and filling out a lineup card without even thinking. Now you can make an intelligent argument as to why the manager can do it better than a computer, and Boly is attempting to do so, but dismissing it as lazy, sure ain’t it!
Mark: you misunderstand. I am not attempting to say that a manager can do it better than a computer. What I am saying is, I would use all the numbers I could get my hands on... but in the end, my final decision would also be based upon a couple of other factors:
Is the player healthy?
Is he slumping?
What is his mental state right now.
Those things cannot be computer measured, and I would use them in my final decision.
But to do it strictly by computer?
No way.
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Post by rxmeister on Oct 5, 2019 6:59:36 GMT -5
I agree, Boly, we’re on the same page but coming at it from two different angles. If the GM says for example, Belt should be playing and batting second, the manager might reply he’s a bit under the weather or exhausted and can use a day or two off. That’s how they work together.
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