Bochy going back to San Diego?

[Islandboagie]

The theme here by the anti-Bochy crowd seems to be that Bochy doesn't play the young kids enough. Most young players wind up on other teams at some point. So name me one player that Bochy kept on the bench, then went to another team and flourished proving that Bochy should have been playing him.

[rxmeister]

Your question is unanswerable, Boagie. If Bochy wrecked a young player then we wouldn’t know it, would we? That player would just be someone we labeled a bust. But I can give you some others. How about Drew Pomerantz? Did you see how dominant he was with Milwaukee? Bochy completely misused him to the point where everyone wanted him DFA’d. Bochy used him as a starter or long man out of the bullpen and the Brewers used him correctly, as a late game reliever with high velocity over short bursts. Ray Black was better with Milwaukee too. Did he overuse Sam Dyson leading to his arm injury? Did he destroy Mac Williamson’s confidence permanently with the way he jacked him around? Steven Duggar? This kid was thought to be our everyday CF for the next decade when he was brought up, now he looks like a career minor leaguer. So again, an unanswerable question.

[Islandboagie]

Mac Williamson got plenty of opportunities, he just wasn't very good. And anyone who believed Dugger was going to be our CF for the next decade was fooling themselves. These guys are at best platoon players, which is basically how Bochy treated them. They were not going to be the next Crawford or Posey, even if the media portrayed them as such. Bochy never ruined a highly touted prospect. All the highly touted prospects went on to win multiple World Series, MVPs, Cy Youngs, and gold gloves.

[rxmeister]

“Bochy never ruined a highly touted prospect.” As I said before, this is not something you could possibly know. Just like you could never know if a player might have been better or worse with a different manager. Tim Lincecum is the one with the multiple Cy Youngs, but look how early he flamed out. Tim had a very unconventional regimen and who knows? With a different manager who might have convinced him of the pitfalls of going his own way, he might still be pitching today. He’s younger than Justin Verlander and look at what he’s doing. What if he had the same manager Justin Verlander had? As for Mac Williamson, remind me who was the manager who didn’t take him out of the game after he hit his head after tripping over the bullpen mound? You think Bochy is some kind of exalted genius, I think he’s a decent manager but vastly overrated.

[Islandboagie]

Mark- Tim Lincecum is the one with the multiple Cy Youngs, but look how early he flamed out. Tim had a very unconventional regimen and who knows? With a different manager who might have convinced him of the pitfalls of going his own way, he might still be pitching today. He’s younger than Justin Verlander and look at what he’s doing. What if he had the same manager Justin Verlander had?

Boagie- I think Timmy flamed out because of his small structure, which is why many scouts passed on him. They just weren't able to predict he'd be the best pitcher in baseball for 2 seasons and one of the best for 5. If it was Timmy's regimen that really harmed him, then the trainers let him down.

Verlander wasn't mentally ready for the big stage when the Giants faced him. I believe he's reinvented himself since then and has become more mindful that his name alone won't make the best teams out there cower in fear. The fact that the Giants pitchers were mentally ready is a testament to Bochy's managing skill.

I see that we're not going to agree here, and that's fine. I just believe I've laid out a more accurate appraisal of Bochy as a manager than you and definitely Mordy. Bochy wasn't perfect, he stuck with guys like Rowand way too long. But his game managing - getting the matchups late in the game - and the impact on the players that succeeded was second to none. I believe that's much more in line with what the people who know him best have said.

Maybe you and Mordy know Bruce better than all his coaches and players? I'm sure that's possible.

[klaiggeb]

Oct 5, 2019 10:15:53 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

Mark- Tim Lincecum is the one with the multiple Cy Youngs, but look how early he flamed out. Tim had a very unconventional regimen and who knows? With a different manager who might have convinced him of the pitfalls of going his own way, he might still be pitching today. He’s younger than Justin Verlander and look at what he’s doing. What if he had the same manager Justin Verlander had?

Boagie- I think Timmy flamed out because of his small structure, which is why many scouts passed on him. They just weren't able to predict he'd be the best pitcher in baseball for 2 seasons and one of the best for 5. If it was Timmy's regimen that really harmed him, then the trainers let him down.

Verlander wasn't mentally ready for the big stage when the Giants faced him. I believe he's reinvented himself since then and has become more mindful that his name alone won't make the best teams out there cower in fear. The fact that the Giants pitchers were mentally ready is a testament to Bochy's managing skill.

I see that we're not going to agree here, and that's fine. I just believe I've laid out a more accurate appraisal of Bochy as a manager than you and definitely Mordy. Bochy wasn't perfect, he stuck with guys like Rowand way too long. But his game managing - getting the matchups late in the game - and the impact on the players that succeeded was second to none. I believe that's much more in line with what the people who know him best have said.

Maybe you and Mordy know Bruce better than all his coaches and players? I'm sure that's possible.

Boagie, I couldn't disagree about Timmy, more.

Lots of smallish guys have had long careers. Whitey Ford comes to mind, along with Rueter and a few others.

Timmy flamed out because of his terrible mechanics which put a tremendous amount of stress on that elbow and shoulder.