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Post by holiday613 on Sept 18, 2019 21:55:19 GMT -5
I don't mean to be cute but why wasn't there so much attention when Bochy lost his 2000th game earlier this season?
I do have to say I am happy for the man...I think he is a real nice gentleman but way over-rated as a manager...Nice win today though...Franco looked like he has some heat ( his minor lweague #'s not too hot though) and Yaz continues to smoke it....All in all a nice team effort tonight...( yes, even from you Jeff!!!)
lets make a mad dash to the WC now!!! Stay hot boys!!!
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 19, 2019 7:10:48 GMT -5
Eli Manning is the NFL’s Bruce Bochy. Has more losses than wins but both are sure Hall of Famers. Eli for two Super Bowls and Bochy for three World Series. I wonder how many managers were better than Bochy but you would never know it because they had bad teams. But as I said before, I do give Bochy credit for his off the field manner. There was rarely if ever dissension among the players.
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 19, 2019 9:49:25 GMT -5
Mark- I wonder how many managers were better than Bochy but you would never know it because they had bad teams.
Boagie- Good point, Mark. Maybe someone managed the Padres with a minimal payroll for 12 seasons, but still was able to make the postseason a 1/3rd of the time. Oh wait, Bochy did that.
There seems to be a lot of Bochy hating going on here. Bochy isn't likely the best manager in history, but to me he's certainly among the best since I've been a fan. When Baker and Alou were managing the Giants, I always remember the feeling when we were playing the Padres that both of those guys were outmatched by Bochy. The Giants had more talent and a bigger payroll, but the Bochy factor made the Padres competitive when we played them, especially late in the game when the Padres bullpen took over the game.
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 19, 2019 10:08:41 GMT -5
I hit post too early.
I haven't had the feeling of the Giants being outmanaged since Bochy took over. That's how I know he's the best, or at least among the best. If anyone came close to managing at the same level as Bochy, a few names come to mind. Mike Matheny, Bud Black and Dave Roberts. I think they're all good managers that made Bochy manage at his best. Is it just a coincidence that all 3 of those managers learned from Bochy? I dont think so.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 20, 2019 8:50:46 GMT -5
Matheny and Black are failed big league managers, and Roberts has yet to win the big prize although he has the best team in baseball every single year. Feel like you really stretched your examples to make your point, and I also feel you’ve overestimated the importance of a manager on the game’s outcome. I don’t know anybody that would put those three in any discussion about the best managers in the game. And his Padres teams were loaded, their payroll is irrelevant. Two Hall of famers in Gwynn and Hoffman, and stars like Klesko, Nevin, Caminiti, Finley, and Kevin Brown. You’re probably right I’m underestimating him, but not to the point where you’re overestimating him. His over reliance on veterans over kids to me was his greatest failing. And an example as recent as yesterday! Pinch hitting for Jaylin Davis and Dubon (who has been great) with Belt and Crawford in the ninth was an absolute travesty. Not only are you dealing with kids and their fragile egos but in favor of veterans who have failed him all year? What great manager pinch hits a .220 hitter for a .300 hitter with the bases loaded and nobody out? Only a manager that needs to be put out to pasture!
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 20, 2019 16:30:51 GMT -5
Matheny took a "post-Pujols" team and kept them competitive. Chris Carpenter also fizzled out when Matheny took over.
Black made the Padres competitive against other NL West teams. I dont remember their overall record, but they held with the Giants in 2010 and played us hard just about every other season.
Bochy did have a few stars on his Padres teams, but baseball back then wasn't as watered down as you see today. Eventhough they had those guys, they were still overmatched talent-wise by most NL teams.
Maddon had a handful of stars on the Rays too, but he's still seen as a managerial wizard because the sabermetric community has a love affair with him.
Of the managers we dont face often, or wasn't directly impacted by Bochy, I'd say Francona is another really good manager.
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