which would be worse?

[sfgdood]

Scenario 1...the Giants trade veterans including Bum, Smith and maybe more for a handful of good prospects. The Giants miss the postseason but start ST better and younger.

Scenario 2...the Giants keep everyone and either miss the playoffs or get bounced in the wild card game. Bum and Smith leave in the offseason for greener pastures and we end up, as Kruk says, with what the birds leave on the Prius.

[rxmeister]

In scenario two we can extend qualifying offers to both, so you’re really not left with nothing. I’m on board with anything they do right now, except taking a run at it by trading prospects, that would be ludicrous. I think they owe it to the fans who spend a lot of money on tickets and parking to not unload everyone for prospects at the deadline, although if they do so, I personally am fine with it. I keep seeing Bumgarner go out there and pitch great though, and then I read the scouts weren’t impressed, and it pisses me off. On several of these contenders he’d be the best pitcher on their staff, and when October rolls around, who else do you want pitching a big game for you? Domingo German? Jose Berrios? Give me a freaking break! If the Giants don’t get a king’s ransom for Bum or Smith or anyone, just keep them!

[klaiggeb]

Nice to see you back, Mark!

As usual, your points are spot on the bulls eye.

I do agree that the team does owe something to the fans who support them, but realistically, they must keep an eye on next year.

That's why I'd like to see, and I posted this in another thread, a trade of Smith and maybe one or two other relievers.


I really don't understand how the 'qualifying' offer doesn't mean we wouldn't lose them anyway.

Can't the player turn down the offer?

And if he does, doesn't that mean we lose them and get nothing back?

[sfgdood]

The qualifying offer would get us ONE compensatory draft pick, which is no sure bet. A trade will get us a handful of prospects...or a can't miss player. We can either put all our eggs in the basket of a long shot this year and screw the future or we can fortify our roster for years to come.

[klaiggeb]

Thanks, Randy. That's what a thought. A draft pick.

Hardly worth the effort.

[rxmeister]

“A draft pick” makes it sound like a tenth round pick! In reality for some teams it’s a first round pick, for the Giants, because they’re not a revenue sharing team, it’s a second round pick. That ain’t bad. And didn’t we bring in Farhan Zaidi because of his skills in evaluating prospects? Of course we’d do better trading them to a desperate team at the deadline, but my point here was based on them not valuing our players. A bidding war for Bum and Smith would be awesome though! Let’s not forget that no trade clause Bum has though. If the team continues to win, it would take a lot for him to waive it.

[sharksrog]

Mark makes a good point that the draft choice the Giants might have received does indeed have some value. Randy and Boly make a good point that the value isn't likely has high as the Giants might have been able to get for Bumgarner or Smith.

In addition, pitchers as good as Dallas Keuchel and Craig Kimbrel weren't signed this season until after the draft so that their signing teams could avoid having to give up draft pick compensation. In addition, while the Giants would have no problem offering Madison the approximately 1/$18 qualifying contract, that would be a gamble with Smith (although one I would take if Will finishes the season strongly). If a team traded for a year and a third of Mark Melancon's contract, surely they would be willing to pay Smith 1/$18.

Boly, you mentioned not understanding the qualifying offer. As a good baseball fan, you truly need to understand what are important parts of the game. If the Giants make that qualifying offer to Bumgarner or Smith, the player can accept the offer and either sign an extension with the Giants or be eligible to be a free agent again in a year, that second time WITHOUT being restricted by a qualifying offer. Teams decided it was worth waiting for Keuchel and Kimbrel for about 70 days this season in order to avoid having to give up the draft pick.

Some here talk about how the players control the owners when it comes to salary, when in reality the opposite is true. And the owners are beginning to open their eyes. Free agency isn't what it used to be.

But free agency where compensation has to be given up by the signing team isn't complete free agency. Not only can a team control a player for up to 12 years before the player becomes eligible for free agency, if it makes a qualifying offer to the player and the player still wants to become an immediate free agent, the player runs the risk of receiving a much lower salary because of the compensation involved, or of missing out on 70 days or so of pay, as was the case with Keuchel and Kimbrel.

The game isn't governed by the simple Reserve Clause of our youths. If someone wants to truly understand an MLB team, he needs to know some of the intracies of free agency, the 40-man roster, options, waivers and the Rule 5 Draft. Unless he is simply looking at a single season of play, he also needs to know the minor league system. And unless he doesn't want his team to make any trades, he should know a little about the other players in the league, as well as other teams' prospects.

I don't think Mark or Mordy ever played beyond high school. But they understand more of the intricacies of the game -- especially off the field -- than many here.

[sfgdood]

It was so nice when I could be disagreed with without being called stupid