Very surprised

[klaiggeb]

This is certainly what I did not expect to open the second half.

What I expected was the same malaise we've seen the last two years coming out of the All-Star break.

I never thought this group had this in them. Especially since I've gone 22 days without seeing a baseball game but once.

So now they've won seven of eight. I am surprised. But this team I saw the night was not the team I saw it 22 days ago

I'm still not holding my breath but my fingers are crossed that they can keep this up

[sfgdood]

I just hope this doesn't keep us from trading away valuable chips to get better and younger

[Islandboagie]

I was with you for a while, Randy. But now I say screw it. If they continue to play this way for the next few weeks, keep these guys and make one last run at it. Bochy is gone at the end of this season, give him a decent sendoff, the kind he deserves.

The Giants aren't going to find a realistic trade partner for Bum, and they won't get anything exciting for Smith.

[garyd4sf]

Jul 13, 2019 1:28:13 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

I was with you for a while, Randy. But now I say screw it. If they continue to play this way for the next few weeks, keep these guys and make one last run at it. Bochy is gone at the end of this season, give him a decent sendoff, the kind he deserves.

The Giants aren't going to find a realistic trade partner for Bum, and they won't get anything exciting for Smith.

I agree with you. Three major reasons....

1. As you stated they wont get equal value or better for either Bum or Will Smith. Both are headed to free agency.

2. When a team goes clicking a few weeks, you don't upset that apple cart. And this team has that Jekyll and Hyde personality as seen by recent years half season comparisons= Good to bad and vice versa.

3. What would they get? A starting pitcher worth anything? Doubtful. Another outfielder when there are 4 farm boys tearing up the league in AAA, and other farm clubs. Will Smith the catcher from LA? As to the latter he is in the minors while Barnes and other lesser lights are started here in LA . And catcher is an area where the Giants aren't in dire need with Garcia and Bart being prepared. 

The Giants are 4.5 games behind in the wild card and near the hottest club in baseball.

[Islandboagie]

Agreed. I think 5-10 years ago I'd be more optimistic on getting a big name prospect and change for Bum, and something significant for Smith as well. But that's just not what teams are doing anymore. Those big prospects are untouchable now. The analytic guys running these teams are focused on the long term, rather than instant gratification on winning a championship.

[klaiggeb]

Well, I guess Randy and I are going to be the fly paper in this one, because I think what we are seeing is an illusion.

I really do.

Yes, we are only 4 1/2 back from a wild card spot, but I don't think that tells the whole tale.

Yes, we do have teams to climb over but I don't think we can compete with either Philthydelphia or Washington for those spots.

I always liked Austin Slater, but with his new swing, I like him even better.

Dickerson? Too early to tell.


Posey seems to have his flexibility back, and that's good.

But Crawford and Panik? What the...?

Crawford looks FAT and over weight to me, in-spite of his home run last night.

And Panik just has NOT been the same guy since he got plunked in the head a while back.

He isn't.

He is NOT a .220 hitter, but that's what he's become.

Is it vision?

Fear?

I don't know, but I remember when it happened I mentioned what happened to Don Wert of the Tigers back in the mid 60's. He was NEVER the same.

And Belt?

He's not a super star, but he's not a .230 hitter either.

Bottom line: I'd live to make the playoffs, but it's more important, MUCH MORE important, to set this team up for the next 5 to 10 years, and I do NOT want to sacrifice that for a one year run

[garyd4sf]

When a team is around .500 there should be a 50-50 group split on whether the line is up or down.

The things that makes me positive is that HRs are recently a weapon in this HR happy era. And we are getting production of RBIs from 3rd, LF and RF. That wasn't the case most of this season.

Will it last....

[sfgdood]

Ok Boagie, what if we keep everyone and stay hot for a while. Then in August we go back to what we were before the hot streak and finish dead last. What then?

[Islandboagie]

Then we get good draft picks next year too.

Now here's a different scenario...what if we keep playing good ball this month, then trade Bum and continue to play well but fall a game or two short of the wild card. Or they even make the post season and can't go deep in the post season because they dont have an ace...what then?

[sfgdood]

I don't believe, and I don't believe the Giants believe this team makes the playoffs, with or without Bum and Smith. Getting something for them before they leave in the off-season beats getting nothing at all

[klaiggeb]

I am definitely with Randy on this one. This is one of those hot streaks that teams get on, and right now we're on

I just do not see this as being a playoff team. I really do not

[holiday613]

This team isn't equipped to go anywhere in the playoffs even if they miraculously squeeze into a postseason berth..While I am enjoying the play of late, I am not for one second fooled by this Fools gold...Stay as sellers Farhan!!

[Islandboagie]

Right now, with the way they're playing, I believe they are equipped. It's not just Yazstremski and Dickerson hitting, Posey and Crawford are starting to hit too. Longoria was red hot before he went down. Since being called up Slater and Solano have hit. Pillar, Vogt and Austin have been good at timely hitting.

It's not just our young pitchers like Anderson and Beede who have been pitching well of late either. Bumgarner and Samardjiza have pitched well.

[klaiggeb]

Here's my problem with your plan, boagie; Let's suppose we DO make the playoffs.

Let's suppose we actually get out of the wild card round.

Do you really believe we can compete with the likes of LA, or Atlanta?

Or even the Cubs, for that matter.


But most importantly of all, what about next year, and the 3 or 4 next years to come?


Right now, we are in a great position to make some significant moves, with Bum, Smith and Dyson and Pablo, to put this club back on the map; to put together a team that not only CAN compete with LA, but actually pass them in the very near future.

If we don't make some moves now, that delays that future, or worse, that doesn't happen at all.

And as much as I'd like to win THIS YEAR, I believe we need to posture for the next 5 or 10 years.

[Islandboagie]

Boly- Do you really believe we can compete with the likes of LA, or Atlanta?

Or even the Cubs, for that matter.

Boagie- Right now? Yes.

[klaiggeb]

Wow... I'm surprised.

We'll see.

[Islandboagie]

Why are you surprised, Boly? They're hitting the crap out of the ball and pitching well RIGHT NOW. They could beat or at least compete with anyone RIGHT NOW.

The question is, could they beat anyone a week or month from now...That, I'm not sure of. Nobody is. But the fact that both Posey and Crawford are hitting and Bum and Samardjiza are pitching well, as a Giants fan I have to be intrigued. This COULD be a turning point of the season. They're playing too well to just ignore it.

[klaiggeb]

You are right; Right Now.

Right now we can compete with anyone.

I just think it's an illusion that won't last much longer, and here's why.

1-Jeffy- Pitching way over his head, much less his history.
We've seen these kind of hot streaks from him in the past. I just don't see it lasting.
I'm hoping he's moved in a deal and they bring up Suarez to replace him.

2-All of the home runs we've been blasting.
This is not a HR team.
It's not.

3-We really don't have any team speed to speak of.
*Pillar can run and run well. After him?

*Posey, Crawford, Sandoval-Station-to-station
*Panic, Longoria and Belt-Average at best. And that's a stretch for an injured Belt.

4-We really didn't start to "take off" until Dickerson, and then Slater came up.
It's hard NOT to love what both have done, but until I see them do it over 150-200 at bats, I'm not sold.
Make no mistake though, I LOVE both players!

5-Our bullpen is not what everyone thinks it is.
*Every time we run Watson out there, it's Brian Wilson all over again; a nail biter.
*Moronta has been iffy for a couple of weeks now.
*In his last 4 or 5 games, Smith is not the shut down guy he was earlier. Still very good, but it looks like fatigue setting in to me.
*Melancon. How do you get healthy, go from dominant closer, to what he is now? Sketchy at best.

6-Pomeranz-You never know which guy is going to show up when he takes the mound.
Really GOOD Pomeranz, and his evil Twin who can't locate.



So yes, they are playing too well to ignore things... but we MUST, MUST get younger and now is the time, IMHO

[holiday613]

From a tweeter I follow"

The goal is to win in the playoffs. Not sneak in on the second wild card spot. This team is not going to beat the Braves/Dodgers/Cubs in the playoffs.

And before you tell me anything can happen, GM’s don’t make decisions on 1% probabilities.

[sfgdood]

Don't get me wrong I'm loving what I'm seeing but if Bum and Smith are gone next year for absolutely nothing in return, this season will have been a huge failure. We need to focus on the future

[klaiggeb]

You summed it up very nicely, Randy why we MUST deal them.

[sfgdood]

Here's what I'd love to see...trade Bum, then sign him back in the offseason

[holiday613]

Jul 18, 2019 20:01:41 GMT -5 sfgdood said:

Here's what I'd love to see...trade Bum, then sign him back in the offseason

Bingo!!!!

[Islandboagie]

I'm curious, Randy and Boly, at what point do you think they should just let our guys play it out? If the Giants dont lose another game by the trade deadline, do you pull Bumgarner and Smith back and let em play? Or are you just going to stick to your guns no matter what just so you dont have to admit you may have been slightly off on your assessment of Zaidi?

I'm not asking because I totally disagree with your current stance, it's likely the right thing to do. But I'll be honest, the fan in me has taken over. It's exciting, and I'm curious to see where it goes from here. It's Bochy's last season, if we're in contention, I believe he deserves the chance to win one more.

[sfgdood]

Of course things are fun right now but reality at some point is going to set in. Midnight will strike on cinderella. There are just too many teams with better rosters to compete with

[klaiggeb]

"Midnight will strike on Cinderella..."

That's a great analogy, Randy.

A great one.


What concerns me right now, however, are a couple of things.


1-These streak has gone on since...what, June 1st?

And as much as I hate to admit it, it's looking more and more like it's not a mirage.

What it's starting to look like is 2010.


2-Dickerson cannot stay this hot.

He can not.

And when he cools off, who picks up the slack?

Since his illness, Slater has tripped and fallen into the Port-a-Potty. I mean, man! He looks AWFUL!

Was he a fluke, too? Like Mac was last year?


3-Belt, and Posey have been in season long funks.

Last night was embarrassing for both of them.

Over and over and over again, Belt swung and missed, or fouled off pitches right down the heart of the plate.

And since his grand slam in Milwaukee, Posey looks punch-drunk. He's a guess hitter, and he's been guessing wrong a LOT!

I've never seen him look as bad as he did last night. Not ever.


4-Will Beede and Anderson hold up down the stretch?

In that final month, I question whether Beede has the mental capacity not to choke, and whether Anderson has the stuff to get hitters out.


5-Panik. What the heck has happened to that guy?

Since he got beaned, what, a year and a half ago, he is not the same hitter.


6-IS Rodriguez back? Lord, I hope so, because I really, REALLY like the kid.



I know all teams have question marks, but we seem to have much more than most.

[klaiggeb]

To answer your question, boagie, here's what I would do.

Unless someone blew my socks off, Bum stays.


Right now, I think Jeffy has some value, so he's gone.



Too many teams need a guy like Smith, so I move him for some good prospects, as well as either Dyson or Watson, too.

Not both.

We simply MUST replenish the upper levels of the farm system.

We MUST.


I move Moronta into the closer's role, with whom ever is left, Dyson or Watson, being the set up guy.

If I can get decent value for both, I move Gott into the set up role.

We have some bullpen options is what I'm trying to say.

[sharksrog]

Ok Boagie, what if we keep everyone and stay hot for a while. Then in August we go back to what we were before the hot streak and finish dead last. What then?


Rog -- Got to give you credit for this viewpoint, Randy!



Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5440/surprised#ixzz5wBVsKrrb

[sharksrog]

These streak has gone on since...what, June 1st?

And as much as I hate to admit it, it's looking more and more like it's not a mirage.

What it's starting to look like is 2010.


Rog -- I would say the streak started on June 30th and ended at the conclusion of July. During that time, the Giants went 20-6. They transitioned from a losing team to a .500 team from June 11th through June 29th, playing exactly .500 ball during that time.

The streak reminded me not of 2010, but of 2016. Winning a ton of close games with mediocre players as the heroes. That type of streak doesn't last, since the mediocre players eventually return to being mediocre players.


Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5440/surprised?page=1#ixzz5wBWDJcAt