Time To Admir Farhan aint a dope....

[holiday613]

Ok guys...I know 4 games don't make a season but can we admit that Farhan has done a decent job by adding depth to the organization? Look at the contributions Dickerson,Yaz,Pillar,Austin are starting to make to the club...Look at the sacramento roster competing for a playoff spot which means we have more depth in the minors..Guys that most of you have necer heard of at Sacramento ( Selman and Abad on the pitching side and Gerber and Zack Green on the hitting side) are having strong seasons which affords us the ability to trade away some of our relievers that should further restock an ever improving minor league system which is the bedrock of a strong baseball foundation...Now many of you guys were looking for quick fixes that would propel us into contention this year but not me...i was willing to sacrifice the short term for the long term and it appears to me that its finally starting to pay off...Was the Connor Joe/Reed combo a mistake? We will never know because we didnt give them a long enough rope but looking at the Roster now, I appreciate the blueprint that Farhan created, that I believe will lead to great success in the coming years..And who knows, perhaps with the way this team has been playing lately, even this season!! All this might I add at no significant cost to the big team...

[sfgdood]

When the team makes the playoffs, i will say a decent job has been done. Not before

[rog]

I'm a little bit in between you guys here.

Mordy makes a good point about the under-the-radar acquisitions that have turned out OK. As we discussed earlier, the success of minor league signings Sam Selman and Fernando Abad make it easier to trade a bunch of relievers from the group of Smith, Watson, Dyson and Melancon (much as we'd hate to part with Mark!). Randy keep belittling Farhan and perhaps mostly himself, but it is likely he doesn't even know who Selman and Abad are (unless he paid closer attention earlier than I suspect he did).

As Mordy has discussed previously, Farhan has done a nice job of avoiding adding to the Giants' bulging future financial commitments, and perhaps he'll even be able to begin whittling away at them as the trade deadline approaches.

I mentioned in another thread that I'm getting excited by the Giants' really young minor leaguers, whom Mordy is about the only one here who knows. That has virtually nothing to do with Farhan, but it has a ton do with the Giants' future.

Mordy has become the voice of reason in this area. Randy would simply fire Farhan, hang the 5-year contract. Bring in Dave Stewart as the GM. Dave knows the game from the inside.

Mordy is the far wiser of the two in this situation, but I do agree with Randy that Farhan hasn't really shown us all that much -- at least that we laymen can fully appreciate. What is simply wrong is Randy's continuing to use demeaning terms regarding Farhan, who to use the old adage has more brains in his little finger than Randy has in his head.

And the crazy thing is that Randy has this misguided idea that he (Randy) knows more about baseball than Farhan. It's a shame Randy didn't apply for the Giants' job, since the Giants clearly would have chosen him instead.

Anyway, I appreciate that Mordy has become a voice of reason. I appreciate that Mordy knows more about the Giants' organization than just about anyone here. I agree with Randy that Farhan hasn't really done all that much (although with Mordy too that he's done more than we give him credit for while taking less risk than we appreciate).

But there is a very high probability that we'll be far better guided to the future if we listen to Mordy than if we listen to Randy. It's the minor leagues where the Giants are making their greatest advances this year, and Mordy is following them. Randy can't even seem to drive 10 miles to watch the San Jose Giants, who only have the Giants' two top-rated prospects.

[rog]

Nearly three and a half decades ago the Giants hired Al Rosen as their GM. He came with a fine reputation within the industry, and he rebuilt the Giants from their franchise-worst season in 1985 into one of the best franchises in baseball. Now Farhan comes along, with a far different background, but a similarly high reputation in the industry.

There is no guarantee, of course, that history will repeat itself. For one thing, GM's today are a lot smarter than they were in Rosen's day, making it a lot tougher to pull off one-sided deals to quickly rebuild. But the point is that the Giants have in place someone with a high level of respect in the industry, much as they did when they brought in the Hebrew Hammer.

I think Randy is right that Farhan certainly hasn't pulled off any miracles. The moves he's made -- and the moves he's become known for in the past -- have been low-risk, under-the-radar events. Perhaps the best thing he's done is avoid compounding the screw up that the Giants entered into a year and a half ago when they for instance acquired Evan Longoria's contract. Now doubt Farhan wanted the Giants to play much better in 2019 than they have, but he resisted cutting off their nose to spite their face.

It's a tough position to be in when so much of the future of the franchise is in teenagers. But if Giants fans with more patience and vision than Randy hang in there, some of those teenagers will make an impact in their 20's.

Pay attention to what Mordy says. He knows the organization.

[holiday613]

Jul 4, 2019 23:58:19 GMT -5 sfgdood said:

When the team makes the playoffs, i will say a decent job has been done. Not before

So let me get this straight...If Farhan was able to get rid of the veterans with bloated contracts yet not make the playoffs, according to you he wouoldn't have done a decent job???

[holiday613]

Appreciate the kind words Rog...I didn't bother listing Luciano, Canario ( who is struggling to start off at SK) Matos,Labour,Toribio,Flores,Bericoto, Genoves,Diego Rincones among many others who are off to blazing starts in the lower minors...Not to mention Conor Menez, Logan Webb, Hjelle and Wong, Melvin Adon in the higher minors who are products of the previous regime!!! We have an abundance of other players that I fail to mention that will help this team down the road...It's a shame that yoy guys don't follow them..Quite an exciting group imo...

[Islandboagie]

I'm still trying to figure out who Admir Farhan is...

Seriously though, Zaidi has done a nice job of adding a large quantity of 4-A players who have recently produced. He also added a handful of players that were garbage. That said, Pablo Sandoval has been our best player and best bargain thus far, and hes Bochy's guy. Our bullpen has been our strength, which was already assembled prior to this season.

I think we can say Zaidi is better than Evans because he hasn't gobbled up a ton of bad contracts, but he's a far cry from Sabean as of right now. To give a solid review of the job Zaidi has done, I think it would be smart to wait until the trade deadline has passed, then we will know more about the future of the franchise. I hope he changes my mind and makes me a believer, but for now I'm not seeing too much "brilliance."

[rog]

It's a shame that yoy guys don't follow them..Quite an exciting group imo...


Rog -- I don't think you've played the game beyond high school, Mordy -- correct me if I'm wrong about that -- but you are wise enough to know that the biggest story with the Giants is their young players in the minors. Especially the teenagers, who could flare out, but could also join the key players of the Twenties as they reach their 20's. Perhaps Marco Luciano won't ever reach the major leagues, but it seems more likely that he'll become the Giants' best player of the decade IMO.

I had the pleasure of watching reliever Raffi Vizcaino, of whom I had scarcely hear. I traveled to see Joey Bart (simply LOOKS like a player) and Heliot Ramos (multi-skilled player whose only flaw I saw was that he was lazy and late with his defensive set up in center field).

But I came away delighted to have seen Vizcaino, who saved the game and was a completely different pitcher than those of both teams who had preceded him. He was soon promoted to AA Richmond, where he has become an effective set up man to the closer you mentioned, Melvin Adon. (Kudos to Boly for mentioning Adon last fall when Melvin dominated the Arizona Fall League.) Both Vizcaino and Adon have STUFF, and the question is whether at age 24 and 25 respectively they can harness their control. Vizcaino has struck out 53 batters in 40 innings, but has walked 19. Adon has done him one better, striking out 54 batters in 40.1 innings, but has walked 24.

The night I saw Vizcaino, he was consistent at 98, and he showed a sharp-breaking slider, which only very occasionally turned lazy. This pair isn't the duo of Selman and Abad you mentioned, in that those guys are prepared to step in when the Giants trade relievers later this month, but it's possible that Adon in particular and perhaps also Vizcaino could be ready to move up to Sacramento to take the places of the two more advanced relievers (although Selman and Abad are southpaws, whereas Adon and Vizcaino are hard-throwing righties).

Luciano went 2 for 4 yesterday, raising his average to .393, although his slugging percentage dropped to "only" .821. He has 6 homers and 3 steals in 14 games. Also importantly, he has walked 9 times, impressive for a 17-year-old power hitter playing his first season in the United States.

Luciano may have the quickest bat in the system, and the 6 homers in 56 at bats are impressive for a slender 6-foot-2, 178-pounder. If Marco fills out, he'll likely move to third base or right field, where his arm would play well. If he stays slender, he may remain at his natural shortstop position. Hard to tell with a 17-year-old, but there are so many things to like.

Boagie, if Luciano gets promoted to Salem-Keizer, don't miss him. There's a chance -- and remember, lest we get too excited, this guy will still be a teenager for two more years, so there are lots of things that could go wrong -- that Luciano will become the Giants' best hitter since Barry Bonds. Brandon Crawford's contract expires after 2021. In a best-case scenario, Luciano might be ready in 2022. Although it has an extra option year, Evan Longoria's guaranteed pact runs out after that season. If Luciano isn't ready or at least very close by then, something will have gone wrong.

Today it's not all that exciting to watch the aging Crawford and Longoria man the left side of the Giants' infield, and guys like Pillar, Duggar, Dickerson and Yastrzemski play the outfield. But I'm excited dreaming about Luciano taking over one of the infield slots and Hunter Bishop, Heliot Ramos and Alexander Canario filling the outfield.

Mordy makes a great point though to keep things in perspective. Canario hit .395 with a 1.000 slugging percentage in the Arizona Rookie League. In his four games since being promoted to Salem-Keizer, the 19-year-old has gone 2 for 17.

Remember, Mordy gave you the link to keep up with these exciting new guys. And hopefully Randy will bless us with scouting reports on Joey Bart and Ramos, and Boagie will tell us about his first-hand impressions of Canario and perhaps before the end of the summer, Luciano.

When is the last time the Giants had teenagers hitting like Luciano and Canario? I'm thinking they've never had two teenagers get off to such strong starts in the same season.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5429/time-admir-farhan-aint-dope#ixzz5sp8FmqD3

[rog]

I'm still trying to figure out who Admir Farhan is...


Rog -- Good one, Boagie! Amazingly, both Admir and of course Farhan are real names. Somewhere out there there likely IS an Admir Farhan, although I'm not certain that Farhan is a surname.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5429/time-admir-farhan-aint-dope#ixzz5spJwwAuF

[sfgdood]

Allow me to clarify some things.

1 I live 4, not 10, miles from Municipal stadium.

2. Just because im abstaining from posting about them doesnt mean i havent been there to see games. The bbq alone is worth the price of admission.

3. I haven't seen that Fargeek has acquired anyone that is widely considered to be a top prospect and all the overpriced veterans are still on the roster stinking up the joint. Hopefully that will change soon but as of now it hasnt.

4. I'm not seeing results so far above the low minors. Thus I'm not excited

[rog]

So let us get this straight, Randy:

1. You live four miles from San Jose Municipal Stadium, but you either haven't taken the time by the 4th of July to attend a Giants game or you don't have the courage of your convictions to post a scouting report on Joey Bart or Heliot Ramos for us.

2. And that's even though the barbecue down the third base line itself is worth the price of admission.

3. And that is because even though the Giants' two top-rated prospects play on average every other day four miles from where you live, you have let the fact that the Giants' major league roster hasn't met your expectations keep you from viewing the most important part of the Giants this season -- the minor leagues. (Your statement that the Giants haven't acquired a top ranked prospect this year is wrong, by the way. Hunter Bishop meets the qualifications, and he has not only been drafted, he's been signed.)

4. Because you're not seeing results in AA and AAA -- even though Mordy has pointed out some guys, and a few players have even made it up to the big leagues this season -- you're not going four miles to view the future.


Have I got it about right?

[rog]

While I personally have been disappointed in Joey Bart's progress this season, CBS Sports just named him their #13 prospect. They don't expect Buster Posey to hold him off too long. I think it's reasonable that Joey could be up by this time next season. We should watch closely to see how he performs in the Arizona Fall League -- as well of course as the rest of this season, including a possible call up to Richmond.

[rog]

Scooter Gennett missed the entire season up until last week, and future Hall of Famer Joey Votto has badly shown his age this season, yet the Cincinnati Reds are only three and a half game out of first place on the Fourth of July. And the Giants have the 6th-worst record in the majors, which would mean their third straight top 10 draft pick.

[sfgdood]

1. I have been to games at sj muni, i just refuse to have my observations discredited by numbers.

2. My expectation for the big league giants have nothing to do with wins, only with trades of dead weight. In this way the season is an abject failure thus far.

[sfgdood]

Hunter Bishop was a 1st round draft pick, not an acquisition. he damn well BETTER be highly rated.

[rog]

Hunter Bishop was a 1st round draft pick, not an acquisition. he damn well BETTER be highly rated.


Rog -- Acquisition -- an asset or object bought or obtained. Hunter Bishop is an asset that was bought or obtained or both.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5429/time-admir-farhan-aint-dope#ixzz5sqKxdMfR

[rog]

I have been to games at sj muni, i just refuse to have my observations discredited by numbers.


Rog -- How many have you seen this year, Randy? By the way, your observations haven't been discredited by numbers; they've been discredited when the 2014 Giants team you gave up on won the World Series, and when the prospect you stood up for happened to be named Gary Brown.

Let me ask you a question: You said essentially that Gary Brown had the talent; he simply didn't have the intellect and/or heart. Assuming you are correct, what good is the inside knowledge you possess by having played baseball above the high school level if you couldn't tell that?

I have no doubt that you have knowledge I don't. I simply haven't seen examples of how it helps you understand and judge the games and players better. I've seen examples of how it hasn't helped you see things that to other observers are clear.

By the way, you should be able to see guys like Luciano and Canario play within a year or two. This year or next (likely the latter) for Gregory Santos. Probably next year for Bishop, who is said to have retooled his swing prior to this past college season, fueling his rise to one of the top prospects in college.

The one thing I see, by the way, about the young and future outfielders for the Giants is the question as to which one will play center field. Both Ramos and Canario may have their bodies grow too thick for the running required (although both should have very good speed for the corners), and while Bishop has the speed to play center, I'm not sure he's a natural ball hawk, and his arm was graded by at least one scout as a 30 on the 20 to 80 scale, meaning he's have one heck of a time throwing from right-center unless he finds a way to strengthen it.

In terms of speed alone though, that trio could form a nice outfield. Each of the three is playing center field right now. As I've mentioned, Ramos needs to improve his set up. Maybe if you go to a game, you could at least comment on whether he's made that improvement. While that would indeed ideally be a numbers thing (since jumps can be measured), neither you nor I have access to numbers that would answer that question. The observation was purely scouting, not analytics.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5429/time-admir-farhan-aint-dope?page=1#ixzz5sqLXcelY

[rog]

By the way, Randy and others, no one here is asking you to anoint Farhan. We've said that his biggest contribution to date may have been in avoiding making potential mistakes. All anyone asks is for you guys to keep an open mind -- but you show your mindset by saying that you won't give him credit until the Giants make the playoffs (which is an improvement from when you said he would need to win a World Championship).

No one is asking you to give him credit. All anyone is asking is that you keep an open mind. The truly sad thing is that you can't seem to tell the obvious difference.

[rog]

It's not numbers that discredit you, Randy; it's results.

[sfgdood]

Thanks for clarifying and making it even more clear you will never agree with my observations justifying why I won't give you any more opportunities. I'm so disliking this forum more and more with each post you make, stats dork. I don't even know why I keep coming back.

[rog]

Because you love to name-call?