Notes on the Giants first big win….

[garyd4sf]

 ..this year against the impregnable Dodgers. We will see how it goes from here. The Dodgers are a HR swinging team and realistically that may not be the best avenue for this team this year. Pomeranz pitched well giving up 2 solo HRs but keeping guys off the base paths. The Dodgers best weapon is to get the count deep, draw walks or swing away looking for that pitch mistake.. Pomeranz et al worked through that and kept the ball mostly in the park.


The best way to beat the Dodger pitching is to get to the bull pen, like last night. Hill and Kershaw are hurt so Urias started. He is not expected to be anything but a spot pitcher and held to 5 innings. He wears down. The Giants had problems but when he left, they opened up against Kelly. He is a former Red Sox RP that got $25M for 3 years and has now blown 2 straight save opportunities. Lenley Jansen has been quiet.


Anyone get the LAD broadcasts on Xtra innings? Color man Hershiser is the biggest pimp in the league. Every guy is made to sound like an all-star. He has chapped lips from bussing Dodger butts so often. OK I had to say that! Joe Davis also said that Urias is lucky to be facing such a 'soft landing' lineup in the Giiats. Though true at this point…. since when do opponents say that openly?  Kruk and Kuiper wouldn’t.


Belt started coming along with Duggar. It's too bad the NL doesn’t have the DH though they seem to be headed that way. Panda would be great there as long as kept off the field. 4 extra base hits of the 8 hits overall last night.


Scheduler….Why do the Giants allow this….since 2003 (I didn’t go back further) the Giants have opened on the road 14 times and 10 in a row recently. During those last 10 they have had a losing or tied record after the first 2 series in all but 2010, 2014 and 2016. Why not start at home?

 

[rog]

Some points:

. Personally, I like opening the season on the road and ending it at home. Get as much tough stuff out of the way early as possible, then enjoy the easier schedule later on. I understand your point though. 10 straight years of opening on the road is weird.

. Sadly, Julio Urias is really good. Some here wanted to ignore him when he was already one of the very top prospects at the age of 19, but despite arm surgery, he has allowed just 2 runs, 8 hits and 1 walk in his 15.1 innings since returning, including last postseason. He has struck out 19. Clayton Kershaw is well past his prime, but the Dodgers now have Beuhler (24), Stripling (a young 29 -- as opposed to Madison's old 29) and Urias (22). As Gary pointed out, even with Kershaw, Hill and Hersheiser out, the Dodgers' starting pitching is still very good, althought he bullpen has shriveled a bit.

. Last season the loss of Alen Hanson to injury was compared to the Dodgers' loss of tonight's pitcher, Hyun-Jin Ryu. Hanson, of course, is no longer in the major leagues. Ryu has posted a sub-2.00 ERA since returning (althogh he was roughed up last postseason). The point I'm making is that when we compare the Giants and Dodgers, too often we get things WAY out of proportion.

. The Giants have gotten good pitching this season, and believe it or not, they'll find a way to score more than two runs a game, as they still haven't quite done this season.

. Brandon Belt started last season strong (after a very slow first few games), and he had a fine spring. Around baseball, many are still expecting that breakout season, and if he can stay healthy, who knows? I've been more impressed with Steven Duggar so far this year than last, although he made a Little League base running error recently on the ground ball ahead of him. I believe the key to Duggar's hitting success is to be more aggressive.

. I wonder if the Dodgers would have signed Kelly if Farhan had still been around? He made his reputation last postseason, but he really hasn't been all that good.

. Speaking of Farhan, I remembered last night calling my son (who lives in LA) and asking him how he felt about the Giants' signing Farhan. HE said that the fans down there were really mad, which told me plenty.

. Getting back to Urias, the Dodgers understandably want to be careful with is arm, but it certainly appears he's the real deal. He and Walker Buehler are one of the best pairs of young starting arms around.

. It was ironic to me when Alex Verdugo homered in that he would likely be the Giants' best outfielder, yet he's having one heck of a time cracking the Dodgers' lineup -- even after they traded Puig and Kemp.

. When Cody Bellinger ranged almost to the right field line to haul in a fly ball, it made me realize what a luxury it is to have a guy who is really a first baseman but who has the speed and defensive ablity to play anywhere in the outfield.

. By the way, Boagie's point that most of the Dodgers' talent goes back to the days of Brian Sabean's former first lieutenant is indeed a valid one. And of course I keep wandering back to the days when the Dodgers changed ownership and we were all upset here with the money that the Dodgers were spending but seemingly ignored it when they said that their goal was to build from within. All that spending didn't get them their desired result, but the building from within should stand them well for many years. GOSH, could the Giants use Alex Verdugo.

. Buehler was awful in his season's debut. Boly, Gary or Don, do you guys know what's going on with him?

[klaiggeb]

ESPN carried the game... but of course, it was blacked out here.

Sometime in July Candee and I are moving to Idaho.

Our house went on the market Monday, we've already had 3 people come see it, and one offer.

In Idaho I won't be subject to those freaking Dodger black outs.

[sfgdood]

good for you Boly!

[rog]

I think moving to Idaho is a great idea, although I have to admit that a friend of mine and her husband recently moved to Idaho but just decided to move back. I was quite surprised at their reversal. I guess we won't be visiting them in Idaho anytime soon. Never got to see their new home.

Despite this though, I think you're making a fine decision, and I certainly wish you and Candee the best. Now the games won't be blacked out for you!

[garyd4sf]

My views….

I like getting off to a good start. And starting on the road each of the last 9 years, the Giants are above .500 only once in the first week of the season. Wins are wins.  I prefer starting at home , hopefully getting a better record, and let the rest happen as it will. That schedule is a stat that Faridi should look at.

Urias is historically fragile. His history is great for a time and then breakdowns after a small amount of innings. He is in a 5 inning restriction now, and is slated to be a 2-3 inning middle reliever when other SP return. I doubt if that changes.

Farhan produced, and the present LAD GM really hasn’t as of yet. Kelly is a potential problem. Pollock is a good signing. The Bullpen is somewhat of a mess, including Kenly Jansen to date.

Buhler had 7 games where he gave up 4 or 5 earned runs. I think that's why they yank him early. Two of those were in the post season. As with most LAD PR they promote their farm club well. But just look at the pitching staff. More than half are non farm club grown. That promotion has yielded mainly Buhler in recent years. Ryu, Maeda, Hill, and others are FA pickups. So far this year overall the Giants have blundered in the field more (ex. 5 of the 6 runs yesterday were unearned) so they actually as a staff have a better ERA than does LA. Will it last?

Verdugo is a pretty good bat. Not sure about his fielding. But his total is 3 HR in 110 MLB at bats, .264 BA, .418 Slg. Just too early to tell yet for me.

Bellinger has proven to be a good outfielder and his long legs help him in tracking down balls. He was forced out there to give Muncy a position. IMO it maybe weakened two positions in the field.

[klaiggeb]

I've spoken to, and heard about/from close to 20 people who've moved to Idaho, and adding the couple about which you just spoke, only 2 moved out again.

It also depends upon where in Idaho one goes.

Anywhere in or near the pan handle gets lots of snow.

Eastern Idaho, withing 50 miles of Boise does not. What ever snow comes, doesn't stick.

I continue to hear pretty much nothing but glowing praise for the place.


Besides, getting out of the People's Republic of California, is a good thing for Candee and I.

[rog]

Hey, I'm ready to move with you and Candee, Boly. But Barbara has lived her whole life in the Sacramento area, her family is here (although a brother recently moved to Amelia Island in Florida), and her heart is here.

Unfortunately, so is the burning heat of summer!

I had it made when I lived on the coast with six windows literally directly overlooking the beach, which was about 75 feet below and 75 yards away, with a nice river in between. But Barbara wasn't there.

[garyd4sf]

Boly, most of the time I spent in Idaho was in Boise, which was nice.

But if you get ready to vacation in Washington or Oregon I can give you some places to go.

If you like wines there are some very good ones in Southeastern Washington and Northern Oregon. And the Columbia River region, and Olympic peninsula are some of the prettiest places on earth.

[rog]

The thing about the Dodgers starting pitching is that they've got seven very good ones. Kershaw, Buehler, Stripling and Urias are homegrown, and as you point out, Gary, Hill came from the outside. Ryu and Maeda are international pickups, so I'm not sure whether to consider them outsiders or homegrown.

Look at the career ERA's:

Kershaw -- 2.39

Ryu -- 3.17

Buehler -- 3.19

Stripling -- 3.46

Urias -- 3.54

Maeda -- 3.81

Hill -- 2.97 the past five seasons


That's a darn good rotation, although as Gary mentions, the problem has been in keeping them healthy.

We have complained about the Giants' injuries in recent years, and they've had plenty. But almost every team has tons of injuries these days. It's just part of the game now. It has shown so much more with the Giants than the Dodgers because the Giants have had little depth, and the Dodgers have had loads.

The one improvement we can see with the Giants this season is that they are deeper. Their rotation isn't nearly as strong as the Dodgers', but if we include Sean Anderson and Ty Blach, they can actually go eight deep. Their bullpen is better than the Dodgers. Their catching depth is good, especially with Garcia and Voigt in the minors. The infield depth is only decent, and the outfield depth is almost nill.

But overall the Giants are a deeper team.

Yesterday's trade wasn't a season-saver. But it did provide a bona fide starting outfielder where fifth outfielders/AAAA players had been. Not that Pillar is a great player, but the Giants likely picked up a couple of wins with him.

Hey, two-win players can build a .500 team. Three-win players can build a contender. Four-win players can build a top-level team. Players who are more than consistent four-win players are rare and usually wind up in the Hall of Fame.

Adding Pillar took a huge weakness at an outfield position and turned it into a capable starter. Now, if he can just lay off that high fastball!

[klaiggeb]

Boly, most of the time I spent in Idaho was in Boise, which was nice.

But if you get ready to vacation in Washington or Oregon I can give you some places to go.

If you like wines there are some very good ones in Southeastern Washington and Northern Oregon. And the Columbia River region, and Olympic peninsula are some of the prettiest places on earth.



**boly says**

Thanks for the offer, Gary, but when Candee and I vacation, we prefer to cruise.

We're not into hiking or driving places.

We like being pampered on a ship.

We just don't do well in the outdoors.

[Islandboagie]

Not many cruise ships leave from Idaho.

[garyd4sf]

Apr 3, 2019 12:59:02 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

Boly, most of the time I spent in Idaho was in Boise, which was nice.

But if you get ready to vacation in Washington or Oregon I can give you some places to go.

If you like wines there are some very good ones in Southeastern Washington and Northern Oregon. And the Columbia River region, and Olympic peninsula are some of the prettiest places on earth.



**boly says**

Thanks for the offer, Gary, but when Candee and I vacation, we prefer to cruise.

We're not into hiking or driving places.

We like being pampered on a ship.

We just don't do well in the outdoors.





No problem, I've been on a dozen cruises,  and also have info on them if you want.


I can understand the pampering bit. 

[rog]

Boly knows more about cruises than anyone I know. I don't know how many he and Candee have been on, but I'll bet it might be in the 50 range -- or higher.

I might take you up on the Oregon and the Olympic Peninsula idea, Gary. I love the Seattle area, but I've never once been to Oregon. I've been out on the Peninsula about as far as Port Angeles.

[rog]

Against right-handers now, the Giants shouldn't be too bad. They're still weak against southpaws though.

They've got a fine opportunity for improvement by dealing one or more pitchers, and over the winter they could look to move Brandon Belt to open up first base for Buster. Hopefully Madison Bumgarner will pitch well enough to improve his trade value, and Belt will build what could be decent trade value based on his good play on both sides of the ball. He can complicate things with his partial no-trade clause though. He can block 10 teams I think it is, and when one takes out the teams that are rebuilding and don't need a player in his 30's plus the good teams which already have a good first baseman (which is most of them), being able to block 10 teams can be highly effective.

[rog]

Two years from now is when the salary drain begins to unclog. Jeff Samardzija and Mark Melancon to the tune of about $32 million per season can come off the books. The following year it's the two Brandon's and Johnny Cueto, to the tune of about $55 million. Then Longoria and Buster to the tune of around $40 million. This coming winter it's just Madison, and Smith will also be eligible for free agency.

I wonder when Buster moves to first base if the Giants will keep just him and Bart as catchers. More likely the rotation will include Garcia, but if the Giants could get by with just Buster and Bart, they could add some bench versatility.

[klaiggeb]

boagie-Not many cruise ships leave from Idaho.

**boly says**

True, but it's a short flight to LA, or Seattle, or SF for a west coast cruise or an Alaskan cruise, or an Hawaiian cruise.

It's worth the expense to be OUT of the People's Republic of California

[sfgdood]

After what I saw last night, I don't want anyone safe...not Buster, not Bumgarner, not nobody. Broom the lot of them and start over.

[rog]

Why do you continue to ignore the need to win enough game to draw fans, Randy?

[Islandboagie]

Let me know if you ever fly into Seattle, Boly.

[sfgdood]

Because the Giants changed the expectations. You can't just switch the calendar back to pre-2010 and say that is good enough. It isnt. If you don't have the tools to win TITLES--not just play 500 ball and HOPE that is good enough--then you need to make HUGE changes. The fans are paying top dollar for a sub 500 roster. Heads need to roll in he FO, in S&D, on the coaching staff and the roster. If the fans see this happening they will understand that the intent is to remake a championship team...not to finish 500 and pray. Fail trying to get a brass ring...dont keep giving us the same FAILING strategies with the same failing players and hope we're too stupid to figure out what youre selling is BULLSHIT.

[garyd4sf]

The next 7 days will give us a more complete picture. Exhibit A on why I hate being ion the road to start .... 2-5 record. Meanwhile the Dodgers made hay at home (5-2).  Whatever the difference is between LAD and SFG when they play its generally close (+2, -1, -2).

The Dodgers came n averaging over 8 plus runs a game. They scored 13 runs in the 3 games (5 of those unearned), 12 for the Giants. 

Early observations: the fielding was surprisingly bad at times, along with throws. Two of which helped decide the games. The Bumgarner throw on a bounce to first led to 5 unearned runs in a 6-5 game. And a bad throw to Home plate missing a probable out, gave up the go ahead run in the 3rd game.

The pitching was pretty good, the hitting much less so. But the juggernaut Dodgers were stymied a good deal of the times. Quite a few home runs by the Giants showed how the park played during these 3 days.

Question for anyone that has Xtra innings from outside the LAD area. Do you get the Dodger games (other than blackouts with the Giants)? Their announcing team seems light years behind Vin Scully, right? Hershiser acts as if the Giants did him wrong in his one year with them. Is that the case?

[klaiggeb]

Let me know if you ever fly into Seattle, Boly.

***boly says***

We've flown into Seattle frequently, boagie. Why?

[Islandboagie]

I get the Dodgers broadcast. It seems with "extra innings" they usually give you the broadcast of the home team. Which I'm not totally against, I need a break from Krukow. And yes, Hershiser tends to be very anti-Giants, but I don't think it's personal. Right now there's probably more hatred coming from the Dodgers fans towards the Giants because of the three Championships. I imagine that's what their broadcast team believes their fans want to hear.

[sfgdood]

Worse than Bumgarner's bad throw to first base was walking the pitcher on 4 straight pitches. I mean how does that happen? Riu isnt even a good hitter. He swings like a rusty gate. Inexcusable. That just cant happen.

[rog]

Here's the thing, Boly. Things DO happen even to the best of them.

Manny Machado missed second base the other night when he tried to return to first base. Dumb mistake. But one of the greatest base runners ever not only missed second base, but was guilty of cutting across the pitcher's mound because he apparently didn't know the rule. That player was Willie Mays. Willie was also tagged out on the hidden ball play when the fielder asked Willie to step off the base so he could sweep the dirt off of it.

Even the greats sometimes do the inexplicable. We don't have to like it, and we can certainly shake our heads. But there is little point in allowing it to increase our blood pressure.

Didn't you ever make a gaffe on the field? I was a heady and hustling player, but I certainly made a mistake or two.

[sfgdood]

There are physical errors and mental errors. Physical errors are going to happen as you say, even with the greats. Mental errors are inexcusable from highly paid professionals. Walking a VERY bad hitting pitcher I contend is a mental error because you can literally put the ball on a tee and Riu will get himself out most of the time...as long as he doesnt hit the ball to Solarte.

[rog]

Walking a VERY bad hitting pitcher I contend is a mental error because you can literally put the ball on a tee and Riu will get himself out most of the time.


Rog -- But, Randy, you've played the game plenty enough to know that sometimes even major league pitchers simply lose their mechanics briefly and just can't throw the ball over the plate. How often have we seen pitchers watch hitters -- often even fellow pitchers -- even while the batter is TRYING to make an out by bunting?

The only problem with your logic is that pitchers aren' allowed to literally put the ball on a tee. The rules force them to throw it across the plate.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5210/notes-giants-first-big-win#ixzz5k9mvs9xt

[sfgdood]

Oh really? Then why was Bumgarner fully able to serve a room service BP fastball to the next REAL hitter to promptly tattoo it over the wall El Centro? He did it for the WRONG guy. When you're the ace, I expect a LOT more than to make this kind of huge mistake and Bum seems to be doing it more and more often in recent years.

[rog]

So let's see what we can draw from your comments here, Randy:

. Unless one doesn't consider Hernandez (Madison's biggest nemisis), Turner, Seager and Pollock to be REAL hitters (and their mothers disagree with you), Cody Bellinger wasn't the next REAL hitter Madison faced. And if one doesn't want to agree with their mothers and Dodgers manager Dave Roberts, the numbers 1.370, .827, .861 and .858 (Those are the season or career OPS of those four hitters) tend to disagree with you.

. While he's done some things well this season, it seems apparent that Madision simply isn't the pitcher he was in 2015. He's clearly been declining in the three plus seasons since.