One cut too many

[klaiggeb]

I would not have kept Pablo Sandoval on the roster in lieu of Hanson.

No question, Pablo is the better hitter, but he lacks too many things that I believe are important for this team.

1-Foot speed. He doesn't have any.

2-Defensive Range-Very limited.

3-Versatility-Yeah, you can "put" him at 2B, but he has less range than even Jeff Kent did.

Not acceptable.


I'm sorry, but this move, to ME, looks like a publicity move; a move with which to bring fans into the park, and THAT is not a good enough reason to keep him.

[klaiggeb]

Then again, I would NOT have kept 13 pitchers.

I've been beating this horse for 5 to 10 years now, and I still feel the same; too many pitchers!

[rog]

Here's the thing with Hanson. We know he can't hit southpaws, but can he truly hit right-handers either? Certainly he did OK against them last season, but how much of it was luck?

Certainly his .254 overall batting average was acceptable, especially when accompanied by a .425 slugging percengtage. But Statcast tells us that based on how he hit the ball, he should have hit just.218 with a .315 SLG. That's a huge difference that looks like a lot of hitters' luck was involved.

Fan Graphs reports that only two out of every seven balls Alen hit last season were hit hard, and only one out of six was a line drive. Those are both weak marks. Not only that, but Alen had trouble making contact. One out of every seven pitches to him resulted in a swing and a miss. He swung at 38% of bad pitches, and he made contact just over half the time that he swung. His 23% strikeout rate wasn't horrible, but his 3% walk rate was. And that high swing-and-miss rate made it more likely that he would strike out more often.

Which this spring he did. 20 times in just 54 plate appearances, to be exact. That 23% strikeout rate soared to 37%, which is Chris Shaw-like, and while Hanson has some pop, he doesn't have anything approaching Shaw's power. Hanson was versatile, and a good base runner (although not the burner he appeared to be). But he was a poor fielder, and a lucky hitter who even with luck couldn't hit from the right side.

Some team may pick Alen up because of his speed and versatility, but he could also wind up in Sacramento, where perhaps he could work on his hitting and fielding.

[rog]

Keeping Pablo may look to some like a publicity move. To me it appears to be a move based on performance.

[sfgdood]

I agree with you in principal Boly but in today's game where starting pitchers have to have their diapers changed and given a binkie after the 4th inning, 13 man staffs are pretty much a given

[rog]

I'm not positive on this, but I believe a lot of teams had 12-man staffs for at least part of last season. It seems to me that was even the case with the Rays, who used the Opener.

[klaiggeb]

Here's the thing, Rog. No question, Pablo can still hit.

But this is a team looking for a future, and the future is NOT with Pablo.

Hanson had a terrible spring, but at least he's young and fast and versatile.

Pablo, as I said, is none of those.

[rog]

Good point about Hanson's having more of a chance at the future than Pablo. But Alen has so many holes in his game that I don't see him as having much likelihood to help in the future either.

It's kind of like, Yangervis Solarte isn't likely to be a part of the future either. And frankly, he's not great even now. But he's the closest thing the Giants have to a versatile backup infielder. Hopefully Abiatal Avelino will become that player soon.

[Islandboagie]

Hanson has speed and pop, and he is younger now than Solarte was when Solarte came into the league. I think there's area there for Hanson growing into a fine player.

[klaiggeb]

Solarte has some pop in his bat, not to mention his versatility.

But that said, I was not crazy about his signing.

Of course, at the moment, his power alone is an upgrade from what we had on the bench.

[rog]

Hanson has speed and pop, and he is younger now than Solarte was when Solarte came into the league. I think there's area there for Hanson growing into a fine player.


Rog -- We'll have to keep an eye on Alen. It would be nice if the Giants are able to keep him at Sacramento. But remember how even when Kelby Tomlinson hit .303 and .292 in his first two seasons (giving him a career average of just under .300) we said he wasn't as good a hitter as he had shown? I feel even more strongly that is the case with Hanson.

Players can change, and they can improve. Hanson has versatility and tools. But I doubt he'll become a valuable major league player.






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[klaiggeb]

No, roger, YOU said he just wasn't a very good hitter.

I disagreed then, and I disagree now.

With his approach, with his 'flat bat' approach, all he needs is consistent at bats...which he'll never get.

[rog]

The one thing Kelby did extremely well during his career was get hits late in games. I don't know if that was a true skill on his part, or due to the small sanple size. But he was very good at it.

Now, as to why he won't hit well in the major leagues: He doesn't hit the ball hard enough. He hit the ball hard just over one out of five times. With big league fielders, that's not often enough.

Kelby was a delight to watch. He played the game the way it should be played. I still think of his occasional push bunt, which one rarely sees from a right-handed batter, and I'll not forget how well he hit late in games. I won't forget that he improved his fielding and that he already was a very good base runner.

But he's just not that fine a player. If all Kelby truly needs is consistent at bats, surely he can find someone who will give them to him. But let's not forget this is a guy who couldn't put together a .700 career OPS in the MINOR LEAGUES. I think Kelby got fairly consistent at bats when he played for Sacramento last summer, yet all he could muster was a .680 OPS even in a big-time hitters' league.

Kelby hit well late in games. He was a good guy to pinch hit leading off an inning if you really needed a base runner. (.385 OBP in late & close situations) He was a fine base runner. But he has no pop, and his defense was merely adequate.

Kelby's in the minor leagues with the Diamondbacks now. They're not very good, so he should be able to get some kind of an opportunity with them. But he's going to have to hit a lot better than the .074 he scuffled to this spring.

Could we be judging Kelby with our hearts and not our heads?

[klaiggeb]

He's not a fine player, or a particularly good one; that much is true.

I was only addressing his plate technique.

He'd never be a starter for me because IMHO, he's a below average defensive player regardless of where he plays.

BETTER than Hanson by a LOT...but not the kind of guy I want in my infield everyday.

[rog]

Kelby has a short swing that is pretty quick to the ball. But he doesn't get his body into his swing, which severely limits his power.

[rog]

in today's game where starting pitchers have to have their diapers changed and given a binkie after the 4th inning,


Rog -- There are hardly any starting pitchers who don't average at least five innings. You're the only one mentioning a binkie or diapers, and one would expect only a child to do so.




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[rxmeister]

Sandoval was also kept because he’s a popular player in the clubhouse. That might not seem important to stat geeks like Randy, but it’s an important consideration to a team. If you remember, Johnny Cueto complained a couple of years ago about the clubhouse atmosphere and I think Pablo returning has changed that. Pablo also recruited players like Parra and Solarte to the team, and how it would look to them if the Giants just dumped him?

[klaiggeb]

I would never, ever question Pablo's clubhouse presence, nor the influence he has.

My point was, and still is, Mark, that if...IF Zaidi is building for the future, Pablo isn't going to be a part of that.

When, then, do you 'move on?"

[rog]

Both you guys are right. The Giants are caught in between a rock and a hard place. They have to try to keep the team "together" in some sense of the word in order to keep the fans coming, but they need to build for the future.

Boly has argued that Madison should be kept to help develop the young pitchers, and perhaps there are similar clubhouse reasons to keep Pablo. I think the bottom line is that had they possessed a better young alternative than Hanson, the decision as to whether to keep Pablo would have been more difficult.