Samardzija

[holiday613]

Watching last nights game and noticing how Jeff topped out at 91 mph leads me to believe that just like the past he will be knocked around like a Pinata...He was just throwing up batting practice pitchers...He is done if 91 is as high as its going to get....It will be a loooooong season......In other roster moves, looks like Hanson and Murphy wont make the team with Sandoval and Mac on the bubble..Would really hate to see them lose Mac, since he is one of the legit power bats this team has.....Lets play ball......

[rog]

I had the same thought about Jeff, Mordy. Prior to last season he was over 94 mph seven seasons in a row. Even with his bad injury last season, he was over 92. To be throwing between 88 and 91 last night was discouraging. He couldn't put batters away.

Early in the spring he was terrific, but he hasn't been nearly as good his past two starts. Is something going wrong with is arm again? Was he stiffer last night because of the cooler weather? He didn't really look very good, and his outing would have been even tougher if not for the fine catch by Solarte.

Regarding the roster, I'm not surprised that Hanson will be gone. We talked all last season how he was hitting over his head from the left side and couldn't hit much at all from the right. Apparently the Giants are trying to slip Tom Murphy through waivers to Sacramento, which would be a good move if they can get away with it.

Pablo's play has been marginal, but he's a fan, clubhouse and manager favorite. When Mac got hit on the thumb, didn't we immediately think injured list? Either or both players could have their ultimate fate decided by a trade of Holland for an outfielder, although I haven't seen anything more about that.

Connor Joe is a big roster threat to Pablo, since he plays the same positions and more. He isn't a switch hitter though, and with Hanson and Pablo gone, the Giants would move from being left-handed-hitting-heavy to right-handed-hitting-heavy, at least on the bench.

Michael Reed looks to be a fine defensive outfielder if he can hit. He didn't play that ball back and to his left perfectly the other night, but he played it well enough to uncork a very strong and accurate throw. Between him and Henry Ramos, the Giants have been just nailing guys trying to take the extra base.

So the Giants' position players appear to be:

C -- Posey
Kratz

Inf -- Belt
Panik
Crawford
Longoria
Solarte
Joe
Sandoval

OF -- Parra
Duggar
Reed
Williamson (injured list)


That still leaves room for 13 pitchers, but if the Giants trade Holland for an outfielder and bring back Andrew Suarez, two out of the foursome of Joe, Reed, Pablo and Mac are at risk. Hopefully Mac's thumb isn't broken, but he was holding his hand overly stiffly after reaching first base. If the Giants need to put him through waivers, now is probably the time though. The wire will be flooded. The Giants could easily still add.

[rog]

As an aside, defensive outfielder Peter Bourjos was the final player to make the Angels' roster. Bourjos played for Sacramento last summer but didn't make it up to the Giants. Peter is the son of former Giant Chris Bourjos and is now back with the team that originally drafted him. He's now 31, but his defense has made him a nine WAR player over his career.

[klaiggeb]

The media can continue to make all the excuses for Jeffy that they want, but what I saw last night, aside from decreased velocity, was the same old guy as before:

Larry Long Ball.

I know Arizona has thin air, but after last night, his "HR" total is 5!

Freaking 5 HRs in 22. 2 IP!

That's atrocious!

Now, couple that with 6 BB.

And he's got a spot in the rotation.

Thanks for your good work last year, Mr. Suarez, and oh, by the way, here's a ticket to AAA.

Not the way I would do business.

[rog]

The media can continue to make all the excuses for Jeffy that they want


Rog -- What excuses have they been making?



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[Islandboagie]

I dont think it's so much excuses as it is a case of delusion. I've heard a few times that it was his injuries last season that had made Samardjiza ineffective, when really hes been ineffective most of his career. Obviously last season injuries created even more struggles for Jeff, but he's never been the guy you or the media talks about.

[rog]

I've heard a few times that it was his injuries last season that had made Samardjiza ineffective, when really hes been ineffective most of his career.


Rog -- What Jeff has been over his career is a slightly above-average starter who was exceptionally consistent at pitching lots of innings (five straight seasons with over 200 innings). Then came last season, when he likely shouldn't even have been pitching.

The most exciting thing about Jeff in 2017 is that he led the majors in lowest walk rate. While his high home run rate didn't allow that to immediately translate in spectacular success, there was hope that with an adjustment or two and perhaps a bit more luck, Jeff could rebound back toward his fine 2014 season. Then came injury, and suddenly Jeff was indeed the horrible pitcher you had made him out to be.

I really don't understand why you can't rate Jeff properly. It's not that he's a great pitcher. I was against the Giants' signing him, but in fact, he lived up to his contract in 2016 and 2017. Last season he was awful.

Want to know the biggest sign he was hurting? His major league leading 1.4 walk rate nearly quadrupled to 5.2. His fastball, which had been above 94 mph each of the seven previous seasons, dropped to 92. Last night it was more like 90 or even a little below. THAT'S worrisome.

But don't confuse Jeff's struggles beginning with his serious injury last seaason with his just-above-average pitching over the rest of his career.

If Jeff can get back to 94, I think we'll be quite happy with his performance. If he is around 90, I think we'll be very disappointed.










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[klaiggeb]

The media can continue to make all the excuses for Jeffy that they want


Rog -- What excuses have they been making?



**boly says**

Roger, I'm confused.

Why do you ask questions like this?

I really don't understand.

For years and years now we've heard the same line from them; "He's an innings eater."

That is not a reason to keep him in the rotation.

[rog]

For years and years now we've heard the same line from them; "He's an innings eater."

That is not a reason to keep him in the rotation.


Rog -- It alone probably isn't enough reason to keep him in the rotation, but it certainly isn't an excuse. I just haven't heard or seen the media making excuses for Jeff. That's why I asked the question.





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[klaiggeb]

I think it is, Rog.

It was the 'reason' the media felt he was so 'valuable' to the team.

Thus, IMHO, that was the 'excuse' for keeping him.

[rog]

It was the 'reason' the media felt he was so 'valuable' to the team.

Thus, IMHO, that was the 'excuse' for keeping him.


Rog -- But the media hasn't needed an excuse for keeping Jeff. In 2016 and 2017 he wasn't bad, and he was among the league leaders in innings pitched. As you know from worrying about overusing bullpens, there's value in even an average starter who pitches a lot of innings. And Jeff has actually been slightly above average -- until last season, when he probably wasn't healthy enough to pitch at all.

It's bad enough that he went down to 92 last season after being 94+ for something like seven straight years, but now he's having a hard time getting much over 90, which may indicate he further damaged his arm by pitching last season. I'm hoping his lower velocity last night was the result of his arm not yet adjusting to the colder weather. It seems he was throwing faster earlier in the spring, although I'm not positive about that.

I don't believe Jeff can be successful at 90. His pitches don't have enough movement.




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[rog]

Let's be honest here. When a guy is making 5/$90, he doesn't need much of an excuse to be kept. Barry Zito made 7/$119 with the Giants, while posting ERA's of 4.53, 5.15, 4.03, 4.15, 5.87, 4.15 and 5.74. Prior to his injury, Jeff was much better than THAT. Tim Lincecum's final Giants ERA's were 5.18, 4.37, 4.74 and 4.15. Matt Cain's were 4.00, 4.78, 5.79, 5.64 and 5.43.

[Islandboagie]

Barry would have been a flop if he hadn't saved his best game for the 2012 NLCS elimination game in St. Louis to send us back home. Overall Barry wasn't a very good pitcher for the Giants, but his 2012 season made us forgive him. Might I add that Barry wore his struggles, Samardjiza seems quite content being one of the worst pitchers in baseball.

Timmy and Matt's declining years were rough to watch. But the reason why they declined so abruptly is because they pitched a lot of high stress post season games. They gave their arms for Giants Championships. I wish we could have seen them pitch at a high level longer, but it just wasn't in the cards.

By the way, comparing Lincecum and Cain to Jeff Samardjiza is a joke. They dont belong in the same conversation.

[klaiggeb]

Boagie's right, Rog, they don't belong in the same breath, let alone, same conversation

[rog]

Samardjiza seems quite content being one of the worst pitchers in baseball.


Rog -- You're being delusional here, Boagie. Until last season Jeff wasn't one of the worst pitchers in baseball. In fact, he wasn't one of the worst pitchers on the Giants. He was well behind Madison and Johnny, but those were the only starters he was behind.

It's hard to seem quite content being one of the worst pitchers in baseball when one isn't. I'm sorry, Boagie, but by judging Jeff as harshly as you have, all you're showing us is that when you get against a player, all objectivity goes out the window.





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[rog]

Boagie's right, Rog, they don't belong in the same breath, let alone, same conversation


Rog -- When it comes to their overall career, you guys are right. Jeff has been a slightly above average starter when healthy, while both Tim and Matt were well above average.

But I compared Jeff's 2016 and 2017 to Tim's 2012 through 2015 and Matt's 2013 through 2017 seasons. Clearly Jeff was better in the specified time frames.





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[sfgdood]

well Mac is gone, Mordy...I'm wondering if the 2019 Giants as a team will catch Barry's 2001 total.

[sfgdood]

two guys in the opening day lineup straight of the trash heap...yikes.

[rog]

I'm wondering if the 2019 Giants as a team will catch Barry's 2001 total.


Rog -- They will.












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