rog
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Post by rog on Mar 22, 2019 14:34:23 GMT -5
Boagie is right. Even if there isn't a specific blue chip OF prospect, SOMEONE is being blocked. Rog -- OK, Randy, so who is it that is being blocked? I don't think you have a clue. Here is another way to look at a possible situation. You are correct that a prospect might lose out on some playing and development time to a veteran, but there are also situations in which if the veteran isnt' there to fill the role, one of the youngsters has to be rushed. At any rate, Randy, I don't think you know enough about the Giants' minor leagues to know if a player is being improperly blocked or not. It also might be considered ironic that while you thought the Giants' drafting Travis Bergen in the Rule 5 Draft was a waste, you're worried about blocking lesser prospects who will still be Giants property (and thus still able to be developed) even if they do lose a few games of development opportunity. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5162/another-castoff-trash-heap#ixzz5ivlSEyKf
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 22, 2019 20:55:52 GMT -5
Randy and boagie are right here, rog.
If we play a 34 year old, someone is sitting who could be gaining experience.
Just 'who' that someone may be, is moot.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 23, 2019 10:00:55 GMT -5
Based on what I've seen, I'm not a fan of Joyce. But as recently as two years ago he was as good as any hitter the Giants had. So he would seem to be worth a look.
And, yes, in theory he would take away at bats from a youngster. But as I pointed out, it's also possible he would help keep a youngster from having to be rushed to fill a roster spot in AAA.
My point is this: Randy complains about seemingly EVERYTHING. But as in this case, he usually doesn't really know what he's talking about. It would be one thing if he could point to a good prospect and say that Joyce would be taking up that player's at bats, but in reality, Randy doesn't know enough about the Giants to do that.
Randy appears to be down on stats mostly because they are facts, and facts often get in the way of his arguments.
What Randy has done is simply spout a platitude. It's possible Joyce WOULD be blocking a player, but it's also possible he would help one avoid being rushed due to need. Randy doesn't know enough about the situation to know which. Yet he makes what for all he knows is actually an inane comment.
To me, it makes little sense to state something with as little knowledge as Randy had this time, and it is particularly galling when the statement is so NEGATIVE.
I do give Randy credit for apparently being objective about Jeff Samardzija, giving him credit for pounding the plate while I'm pretty sure he still recognizes Jeff's potential Achilles heel has been his inability to limit home runs. But on almost everything else I can think of, he's negative.
When asked questions to explain his negative opinions, he usually evades them.
I would rather have someone disagree intelligently than agree in an air-headed fashion. I could literally take the opposite position from Randy on every single topic and almost never be entirely wrong.
He could well be right about Joyce, but he's speaking boldly despite ignorance of the specifics of what he's saying. Life is about sorting out the various shades of gray in life, and to Randy things almost always seem to be black or white -- usually black.
What Randy seems to fail to recognize is that the Giants are trying to walk a very fine line between keeping the fans interested enough in their present product to keep coming to games while trying to build a future despite being limited by a host of aging, injured, overpaid players. As usual, the situation is more complicated than Randy recognizes.
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 23, 2019 11:01:17 GMT -5
I'm sure there was a number of better options to fill out Sacramento's outfield than hiring a 36 year old has been. Or in this case a never was.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 23, 2019 11:45:21 GMT -5
I notice that even though two other posters agree with me, you single me out for your personal attacks. I get that you hate me because I dont bow at the altar of analytics but this was very petty on your part, Stats Dork
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 23, 2019 14:49:08 GMT -5
Matt Joyce was released already, so theres no reason to discuss this further. Rene Rivera was also released...
Looks like Rog's projected roster is starting to fade away fast.
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Post by klaiggeb on Mar 23, 2019 15:19:16 GMT -5
Dropping Joyce didn't really surprise me, but Rivera did.
I kind of thought that the Giants would rather have Garcia playing every day in lieu of sitting.
But the more I read, the more I think about it, in the early on part of the season, as they work Buster back in, he's likely to get considerable playing time.
And I'm guessing they'd rather have his bat than Rivera's.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 23, 2019 16:16:20 GMT -5
It didn't make sense to have Garcia play every day when Bart will be the one taking over next after Buster as the every day catcher
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 23, 2019 21:45:58 GMT -5
Matt Joyce was released already, so theres no reason to discuss this further. Rene Rivera was also released... Looks like Rog's projected roster is starting to fade away fast. Rog -- I never had Joyce on my roster, Randy. You're just a fool. I did think Rene Rivera would make it. Apparently the Giants think Aramis Garcia is ready. I'm not so sure. I think his eventual role will be to catch 40 to 50 games per season for the Giants, so I would make sure he was seasoned. Maybe they are right, and he is. Or maybe they simply want to see if he can handle the backup role, hoping that if he can't, they can find out right away. I thought originally that Drew Ferguson would make the roster, and clearly that isn't happening. I originally thought the two-way pitcher would stick too, but he had a REALLY rough spring. Very disappointing. Here is something we can take a little hope in though. The Giants' top seven relievers -- Trevor Gott, Sam Dyson, Reyes Moronta, Nick Vincent, Travis Bergen, Tony Watson and Will Smith -- have a combined 0.81 ERA in 49 innings. I don't think any other team has had a bullpen this spring that can compare with that. Bergen, the guy the Giants wasted that Rule 5 Draft pick on, posted a perfect 0.00 in 9.2 innings. The Giants today added Michael Reed, a right-handed hitting outfielder who can play all three outfield positions, and Carl Yastrzemski's grandson Michael, who fits the same description that he's left-handed on both sides of the ball. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5162/another-castoff-trash-heap?page=2#ixzz5j3KV8Bdn
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 23, 2019 21:51:39 GMT -5
That wasnt me that posted that douchebag...I think you have Sfgdood Derangement Syndrome.
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 24, 2019 0:29:22 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 24, 2019 0:39:33 GMT -5
I'm sure there was a number of better options to fill out Sacramento's outfield than hiring a 36 year old has been. Or in this case a never was. Rog -- Matt Joyce certainly hasn't had a great major league career, but just three seasons ago he posted an .866 OPS, and the following season he posted .808. The .866 was 36th among all players who had as many plate appearances as he, and the .808 was 62nd among all qualifiers. Matt was lousy in 2018, but the previous two seasons he had been among the game's better hitters. Calling him a never was is probably overstating the case a bit. Joyce has put up five different seasons with an OPS above .800. Despite rarely playing full time, Joyce has put up 14 WAR in his 11 seasons. That's a decent major leaguer. Heck, just to have an 11-year major league career is pretty good. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5162/another-castoff-trash-heap?page=2#ixzz5j436nz80
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rog
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Post by rog on Mar 24, 2019 0:54:50 GMT -5
That wasnt me that posted that douchebag...I think you have Sfgdood Derangement Syndrome. Rog -- By "douchebag," I presume you were referring to yourself, but I do apologize for confusing you with Boagie. As for you, Randy, I don't mind your disagreeing with me, but as I have posted before, I would rather someone disagree with me intelligently than agree with me mindlessly. I give you credit for your Jeff Samardzija evaluation because you based it on his "pounding the zone." That's a decent analysis. It would have been nice if as a former pitcher you could have given us some ideas how he might be able to continue to throw strikes but avoid the gopher ball, but "pounding the zone" was a pretty good description of Jeff in 2017 in particular, as he led the major leagues in lowest walk rate. But so often your comments simply show us that you're coming from a negative place. Just get rid of Belt and Panik? Those guys have been the Giants' two best hitters this spring. Why is it that Boly is wise enough to realize the chances that Belt and Panik will bounce back are good, yet you just want to get rid of them for "addition by subtraction?" I'm sorry, Randy, but despite whatever experience on the field you have, you don't truly understand the game very well. Or at least you haven't shown it. Most of your comments could just as easily come from a 12-year-old. Disagree with me all you want. I learn more when people disagree than when they agree, because they force me to research my position even more deeply. But make decent points. There is a management or parenting style called "leave alone/zap." It's where a manager or parent leaves his employee or kid alone most of the time, teaching him little, then "zapping" the employee or kid for doing wrong. Your posting style here seems to be mostly "zapping." If you're going to get all over Belt and Panik, don't just say that getting rid of them would be addition by subtraction. Show us HOW that would be the case. And show us your plan for replacing them, and why you wouldn't give them time to rebound their level of play so that they could build their trade value. In other words, show us your mind works beyond a 12-year-old level. I'm convinced it does, but you rarely share that part with us. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5162/another-castoff-trash-heap?page=2#ixzz5j46WMYKD
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