Another castoff from the trash heap.

[sfgdood]

Matt Joyce...another 30+ year old left handed hitter with no pop. Great work, Fargeek

[rog]

Intriguing. When I saw that Matt had been released, I was hoping the Giants might pick him up -- but not expecting that they would.

You perhaps overlooked that Matt's career OPS in 3373 plate appearances against right-handers is over .800. In fact, it's higher than either Buster Posey or Evan Longoria, and I believe ranks behind only Brandon Belt and Pablo Sandoval.

MLB Trade Rumors said of the signing "Even if Joyce doesn’t crack the 25-man roster out of camp, he could potentially head to Triple-A and serve as an early-season depth option given the Giants’ lack of established outfielders at present."

Joyce isn't a big-time power hitter, but over his career he has averaged a home run every 21 at bats against righties. To criticize the Giants for signing Joyce to a minor league contract shows little understanding of today's game.

[sfgdood]

We dont need lefties and we dont need 30+ castoffs. Last year he hit 158 with one HR and 2 RBI vs lefties and hit 216 with 6 HRs and 13 RBI vs righties.

Not impressed

[rog]

I'm not sure Matt will even play in San Francisco, but he could provide a little depth in Sacramento in case he is ever needed by the bay.

Hey, Matt may be done. Or he may not be. What in the world was the harm in signing him to a MINOR LEAGUE contract?

I wonder how many new players will make the 25 man roster when the season opens? Not a huge number, but certainly a few. And the Giants have done virtually nothing to impair their future, while adding guys like Travis Bergen and Trevor Gott who might help it.

Not a great off-season IMO, but one in which we can see that Farhan has pursued his plan of youth, speed and defense without tying up much money. It's a start.

The front office and scouting changes are probably the biggest moves.

[sfgdood]

by keeping bums like Belt Longoria and Panik they may not be impairing the future but they certainly are delaying the rebuild.

[rog]

by keeping bums like Belt Longoria and Panik they may not be impairing the future but they certainly are delaying the rebuild.
~Dood


Rog -- You don't understand the situation, Randy. Longoria is pretty much untradeable. Why would a team give up something for Evan at 4/$63 when Mike Moustakas signed for 1/$10? Belt's concussion history makes him a huge gamble for an acquiring team, but if he can continue his excellent Spring Training hitting into the season, perhaps the Giants can get something for him. Panik has had injury problems too and thus has little trade value. But he's cheap and still on the good side of 30. If he bounces back as expected this season, he could help in the future or be traded for a player who could.

Which top prospects are Longoria, Belt and Panik blocking?





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[sfgdood]

addition by subtraction

[rog]

Joyce was pretty lousy in 2018, but in 2017 his OPS against all comers was .808, and in 2016 it was .866. The only Giants to beat those figures were Belt in both seasons and Posey in 2017. How is it foolish to sign Joyce to a MINOR LEAGUE contract?

[sfgdood]

if the Giants pick up some of Longoria's contract they can get more for him.

Are you saying Fargeek is too stupid to know how to make a challenging deal?

[rog]

Are you saying Fargeek is too stupid to know how to make a challenging deal?


Rog -- Probably not. A year ago he traded Adrian Gonzalez, Scott Kazmir, Brandon McCarthy and former Giant Charlie Culberson plus cash for Matt Kemp. The Dodgers got rid of a ton of salary, which got them under the salary cap in what was mostly a salary dump. But Kemp also posted an impressive .818 OPS and was traded away over the winter, getting the Dodgers away from more salary.

A big part of the deal was that the Dodgers got to keep Kemp, while the Braves agreed to cut Gonzalez in exchange for his waiving his no-trade contract in order to make the trade possible. Gonzalez was limited to a .672 OPS for the Mets and was released on June 11th.

Culberson had a nice year, posting a .792 OPS in just under 300 at bats for the Braves. Kazmir was released by the Braves from his $17.7 million contract, and McCarthy was paid $11.5 million ($4.5 million by the Dodgers) for his 4.92 ERA in 79 innings before becoming a free agent in October.

A year later, the only player still with the team he was traded to is Culberson, who remains with the Braves. Culberson has been worth less than one WAR total over his career. Charlie was the final one of the six players in the top 51 overall picks by the Giants in 2007.

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[rog]

if the Giants pick up some of Longoria's contract they can get more for him.


Rog -- Here's the thing, Randy. The Giants owe Evan $63 million over the next four seasons. He is projected to post a .730 OPS this season. The Brewers re-signed free agent Mike Moustakas for $10 million for one year. Mike is expected to post a .779 OPS.

Unless the Giants pay almost all of Evan's salary, why would a team give up anything for him?

Let's take a look at a team like Philadelphia for instance. The Phillies not unsurprisingly beat out the Giants for Bryce Harper. The Phillies are paying their BACKUP third baseman, 24-year-old Scott Kingery, $23 million over the next four seasons. Then they have an option to keep him three more years for an additional $42 million. Kingery may or may not turn out to be the star he was expected to be (He had a tough rookie year in 2018.), but personally I'd trade Longoria for Kingery and eat the difference between their salaries.

Hopefully Longoria will have a good 2019 season, and the Giants can indeed trade him. But right now the Giants are scheduled to pay him $63 million for what might likely be about half that in production. Evan's OPS last season was .694, which is less than Brandon Crawford's career OPS.

For whom would you trade Evan, Randy, and how much of Evan's contract would you be willing to eat?

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[sfgdood]

Why do you want to keep him? He sucks, the team sucks...there's no good reason not to kick him to the curb

[Islandboagie]

Kingery is their starting shortstop, who can play multiple positions, not just a "backup third baseman." The Phillies would never do that trade. I dont understand why the Phillies signed him to that contract when they controlled him anyways. Despite it being an unusual contract, I would still bet on him earning every penny of that contract.

[rog]

Why do you want to keep him? He sucks, the team sucks...there's no good reason not to kick him to the curb


Rog -- I don't want to keep Evan Longoria. I want to trade him to free up the contract money. So I repeat:

For whom would you trade Evan, Randy, and how much of Evan's contract would you be willing to eat?





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[rog]

Kingery is their starting shortstop, who can play multiple positions, not just a "backup third baseman." The Phillies would never do that trade. I dont understand why the Phillies signed him to that contract when they controlled him anyways. Despite it being an unusual contract, I would still bet on him earning every penny of that contract.


Rog -- Although it certainly didn't work out in his rookie season, you may remember I lauded the Phillies for locking up Kingery a year ago. And you're right that he isn't simply a "backup third baseman" (although he is indeed that). Scott is kind of a supersub, able to play almost anywhere on the diamond. He isn't their starting shortstop though. The Phillies traded over the winter for first division shortstop Jean Segura. Kingery will likely get his shot when one of the Phillies' starting position players goes down to injury.

By the way, the Phillies locked Kingery up with the type of contract I'm hoping the Giants guarantee Joey Bart with -- $23 million guaranteed over four seasons, plus an additional 3/$41 in options. The contract helped the Phillies avoid having to play service time games with Kingery so that he could simply begin last season with them.

Yesterday the White Sox and rookie star Eloy Jimenez agreed to a rookie record 6/$43 plus two option years worth an additional $32 million. Jimenez will received a $2.5 million bonus if he wins a Most Valuable Player Award during the contract.

The idea behind these early-career lock-up contracts is to guarantee the player huge financial security while allowing the team to lock the player up at a much lower price than they might pay by waiting. The idea is that if the team is going to make a contract mistake, make it a relatively small one rather than a possible huge contract mistake later on.

The Giant used this strategy successfully with Madison Bumgarner and less successfully (although certainly far from a failure) with Buster Posey.




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[rog]

With a week until Opening Day, the most valuable Giants so far this spring have been as a group heavily criticized here:

Brandon Belt -- .485 with a 1.371 OPS

Joe Panik -- .472 with a 1.083 OPS

Jeff Samardzija -- 2.63 ERA, 1.02 WHIP, .204 BA

Drew Pomeranz -- 3.21 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, .167 BA

Ty Blach -- 3.09 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, .222 BA

Trevor Gott -- 0.00 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, .188 BA

Travis Bergen -- 0.00 ERA, 0.81 WHIP, .097 BA


Blach and Gott have been very pleasant surprises, and the rest of the Spring Training standouts have been heavily criticized here by one or more posters.

Although it's only Spring Training, I'm not sure what has gotten into Blach. With a career strikeout rate of what might be an active major league worst 4.8 K/9, Ty has somehow managed to jump that rate up by six full strikeouts. I wish we knew more about the changes Ty has made. Blach has an option, so it's possible he won't even make the Opening Day roster.

[sfgdood]

I'd trade Longoria for a used ball bag, a fungo and a few pine tar sticks....but if we can get a player who isnt old, bad and under a bad contract that would be nice.

[klaiggeb]

Not that I disagree with Randy, because I really don't... but I have a feeling that much like Mr. Baseball, Longo has one good season left in him.

I'd like it to be THIS season.

[rog]

I'd trade Longoria for a used ball bag, a fungo and a few pine tar sticks....but if we can get a player who isnt old, bad and under a bad contract that would be nice.


Rog -- So you would trade Evan for virtually nothing. How much of his contract would you be willing to eat? With whom would you replace him? It's like pulling teeth to get you to answer the easiest of questions.




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[rog]

Evan likely DOES have a good season left in him, and if so, it is most likely to come this year. He's not a horrible player. It's just that he's mostly going to get worse, and the Giants owe him a lot of money.

[rog]

So how the Giants handle Evan becomes a reasonably important question. It would be great if he has that good season in 2019, since they he would be more tradeable. The Giants need for a contender to suffer a key injury at the hot corner.

[sfgdood]

Back to Joyce...this dumpster dive move totally makes me think of Casey McGehee

[rog]

Back to Joyce...this dumpster dive move totally makes me think of Casey McGehee


Rog -- It probably shouldn't, for three reasons:

. First, Joyce is on a minor league contract.

. Second, he's making far less than McGehee.

. Third, he's likely trying just to make the roster, not win a starting job.




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[Islandboagie]

I can't even make sense of the move. Why pickup a 36 year old outfielder this late in spring when he has almost zero chance of making the team?

[sfgdood]

He and Fargeek get to reminisce about the good old days in Oakland and ALL the success they had

[rog]

I personally don't think Joyce looks very good, although that's a very quick reaction. I think though that the Giants are hoping that he'll show well enough to keep up, but are thinking it may be more likely that he'll clear waivers and add depth at Sacramento.

Randy's comment appears to have been posted with the intent of being sarcastically funny, but I'm not sure it hit the mark. Personally I would rather he tell us how much of Evan's contract he would be willing to eat and with whom he would replace him.

[Islandboagie]

I dont really see how a 36 year old outfielder in Sacramento helps us either. It only takes away playing time from someone who can benefit from it. Dumb move.

[rog]

Which outfielders at Fresno would lose valuable time to Joyce, Boagie? The Giants just don't have a lot of talent at the higher levels of the minors to block.

[rog]

To answer my own question, the Giants have Slater, Shaw and perhaps Heath Quinn, although Quinn will almost certainly begin the year no higher than AA Richmond. Just watching him play, I'm not impressed with Matt Joyce, but he was a very good hitter in 2016 and a good one in 2017.

[sfgdood]

Boagie is right. Even if there isn't a specific blue chip OF prospect, SOMEONE is being blocked. We don't know what extra game experience will do for someone