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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 24, 2019 17:39:37 GMT -5
Whether you guys like the move or not, it's a no risk move that only really has an upside. You might not be pleased with Zaidi overall, but criticizing this move is just exposing your bias. These are the moves we should be making.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jan 24, 2019 20:37:19 GMT -5
it's not the quality of the move so much as the overall strategy. I dont want to acquire 30+ players, I want to get rid of them. I'm tired of this we want to compete now crap when everyone knows that is a stupid strategy for a roster as old and bad as ours
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 24, 2019 21:53:46 GMT -5
Getting 1.5 million dollar a year players will enable us to get rid of the 20 million a year players and we wont have to rush the young kids up just to fill spots. You wanted better development of our young prospects too, making them play in the big leagues before they're ready is poor development. I agree that we should go younger, but I think we need to play it smart at the same time. I want our system to be rebuilt as much as you do, but I realize it's not going to happen over night, you need to realize that too.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 24, 2019 22:54:12 GMT -5
Very solid points, Mordy
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jan 25, 2019 3:08:59 GMT -5
I realize it wont happen overnight...but it does need to begin like yesterday
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jan 25, 2019 3:13:45 GMT -5
And BTW...how do you know if a young player is ready when you don't give him a chance to prove it?
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 25, 2019 7:38:09 GMT -5
As much as I think signing Drew was smart, all this looks like to me is just one more move to give this team the "illusion," (to the fans), that they'll be able to compete. Rog -- If you think signing Pomeranz was smart, why do you feel that all the move was was an "illustion?" And if you feel the move was just an illustion, why do you feel it was smart? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher?page=2#ixzz5dcdxFbUU
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 25, 2019 7:41:52 GMT -5
Number one...Fargeek is not credible in my mind yet two...The Giants would have to be playing GREAT, not just well, in order for me to be on board with a non-rebuild. To me this is the same as Congress kicking the Immigration/Border Security can down the road for like decades. three...the moves I want are more about getting rid of players, not aquiring Rog -- What is important isn't whether Farhan is credible in your mind yet, but whether he will make good moves. How are the Giants going to get better simply by getting rid of players, not acquiring them? Their problem is that they're woefully short of good players, and they have few replacements who are either major league ready or still developing. Does it make sense to deride the Giants' farm system and simultaneously say what they need to do is get rid of players? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher?page=2#ixzz5dcej24TY
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 25, 2019 7:44:48 GMT -5
Ya'all can continue to be patient with the guy, my patience with him is over and out. Rog -- There is an above-average chance you will (or should) look back and realize you should have shown more patience. In fact, I'm going to predict it right here and now. Am I certain? Of course not. But Farhan is highly respected in the industry by people who know far more (or is that far-han?) about him then we. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher?page=2#ixzz5dcfXwb8C
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 25, 2019 7:48:30 GMT -5
it's not the quality of the move so much as the overall strategy. I dont want to acquire 30+ players, I want to get rid of them. I'm tired of this we want to compete now crap when everyone knows that is a stupid strategy for a roster as old and bad as ours Rog -- Remembering that I initially agreed with you that the Giants should simply rebuild and that I am the one pushing hardest to trade the Giants' best trade piece, what is your plan here, Randy? Please let us know move by move how you would approach this, how the Giants would perform in the short run, the effect it would have on the fan base, the effect it would have on potential free agent acquisitions, how soon you believe the Giants would be highly competitive again, and the reasons why. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher?page=2#ixzz5dcgNp3vy
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 25, 2019 7:49:30 GMT -5
Solid points, Boagie.
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 25, 2019 7:52:50 GMT -5
And BTW...how do you know if a young player is ready when you don't give him a chance to prove it? Rog -- If you have good scouting and analytics, you should have a pretty good idea of whether a player is ready, and how he is likely to perform. If not, it's probably a good idea to improve your scouting and analytics. Can you be 100% accurate? No. We're dealing with human beings, not machines. But when you've got a guy like Chris Shaw struggling to make contact in the minors, what makes you think he'll suddenly solve the problem upon reaching the majors and facing better pitching? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher?page=2#ixzz5dchM1eve
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 25, 2019 11:53:40 GMT -5
As much as I think signing Drew was smart, all this looks like to me is just one more move to give this team the "illusion," (to the fans), that they'll be able to compete.
Rog -- If you think signing Pomeranz was smart, why do you feel that all the move was was an "illustion?" And if you feel the move was just an illustion, why do you feel it was smart?
***boly says***
Smart because it costs us very little.
An "illusion" because it's a smoke screen to deceive Giant fans into thinking we will be competitive.
We aren't, and won't be.
Not with who the Dodgers have signed so far.
Will be lucky to finish last, and only last because there is nothing further down where we CAN finish.
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 25, 2019 15:48:57 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 25, 2019 17:49:56 GMT -5
Pitchers report mid February.
We'll see.
So far, all I see is talk.
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 25, 2019 17:55:15 GMT -5
That's mostly all I see either, Boly. But I do think that the offseason has been slow for most teams (even slower than for the Giants) and that Farhan is both smart and patient. He's still got money to spend, even if he has little talent available to deal.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 25, 2019 20:59:18 GMT -5
Smart? Not sure where you are coming up with that, Rog.
I don't see ANYTHING that says "smart."
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 26, 2019 13:51:56 GMT -5
Smart? Not sure where you are coming up with that, Rog. I don't see ANYTHING that says "smart." Rog -- I'm saying Farhan is smart because that is the impression around the league. Also, he probably wouldn't have the academic credentials and success in baseball that he has had if he weren't extremely bright. As to whether his STRATEGY this off-season is smart, it's too soon to tell. One think I have asked though that no one except me has come up with an answer that I can remember is, which players has Farhan missed out on that make us believe he's done poorly? I named three, and not only did no one come up with any others I can remember, I don't think anyone expressed agreeement with my choices. If we're going to criticize Farhan for "sitting on his hands," don't we need to be able to identify the opportunities he's missed out on? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher?page=2#ixzz5dk01MQ4Q
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 26, 2019 17:25:07 GMT -5
actually, Rog, no, we don't need to name them.
Here's all that I care about:
1-Has the club gotten better?
Heck no!
2-Has the club gotten worse?
Yes. Strickland is gone, for starters
3-Have we made any deals for either vets or kids that might make a difference?
Heck no.
4-Is this club pretty much the same one with which we ended last season?
Um... yes. And that's not good.
We haven't gotten younger.
We haven't gotten better.
So I don't think we have to name who we missed on, because it looks to me like we've pretty much missed on everyone.
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Post by Islandboagie on Jan 26, 2019 19:28:05 GMT -5
More important to me are the subtractions, not the additions. Melancon, Samardjiza and Belt are ALL still Giants.
I like the Pomeranz pickup, and he still has time to do other moves, but time is running out.
Grade thus far: D-
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Post by klaiggeb on Jan 27, 2019 10:25:09 GMT -5
D-.
I agree perfectly and completely, boagie.
And yes, time IS running out.
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 27, 2019 13:23:07 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 27, 2019 13:37:14 GMT -5
If we want to say the Giants haven't done enough so far this winter, even Rip Van Winkle would snore his agreement. But if we can't name the moves the Giants have already missed out on, this is much todo about nothing.
We gave the Giants a "D-" grade thus far. That would mean we felt the acquisitions they've made were pretty awful. The grade they deserve is "Incomplete."
I don't think this is the case, but it did dawn on my that when Farhan said there were deals out there to be made, but that the Giants don't want to be hasty and overpay, he could have been talking about Bryce Harper.
I think the question of which deals Farhan has missed out on is criticial here. If he's missed them (and I've pointed out three guys I felt the Giants missed out on), then we can criticize him for that. We still can't crititize in a very knowledgeable manner, since we don't know which deals he's still trying for, but at least we can say, here are some good deals he's missed out on; the only way he can redeem himself is to make some equal or better deals.
The Giants have the money they needed to sign the guys I wanted; they simply didn't agree with me enough to sign them on the open market. I'm certainly willing to admit they know things I don't.
So we've got one guy who says the Giants missed out here, and here, and here -- but it ain't over till it's over. And another who can't tell us what the Giants did wrong (aside from non-tendering Hunter Strickland), but who still gives them a "D+" even though he can't tell us just what it is the Giants have done wrong.
We've criticized Farhan for not letting us know what his plan is, but isn't it far more important that we know what it is -- and approve of both the plan and the execution -- AFTER he has completed it. His entire plan won't be close to being completed this winter, of course, but hopefully we and he will be happy with his execution of just the winter portion.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jan 27, 2019 13:59:43 GMT -5
You seem to ask questions that cannot be answered without inside information. People give opinions based on what they see, not what they aren't privvy to. If we put the time and effort into identifying specific available players to acquire, we would lose our jobs or have our businesses suffer greatly. Maybe you have that much free time but not everyone does.
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 28, 2019 21:57:36 GMT -5
So I don't think we have to name who we missed on, because it looks to me like we've pretty much missed on everyone. Rog -- You're right. The Giants have missed out on Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, Dallas Keuchel, Craig Kimbrell, Marwin Gonzalez, Gio Gonzalez, Mike Moustakas, Cody Allen, Bud Norris, Wade Miley, Adam Jones, Martin Maldonado, Ervin Santana, Derek Holland and Drew Pomeranz, just out of the top 50 free agents alone. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher?page=2#ixzz5dxe6qc00
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rog
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Post by rog on Jan 28, 2019 21:59:16 GMT -5
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