Giants sign a pitcher!!

[holiday613]

Giants sign Drew Pomerantz to a one year deal...$1.5m base salary with incentives...Sounds like a decent signing to me..

[rog]

The 30-year-old plummeted to a 6.08 ERA last season after consecutive seasons of 2.35, 3.66, 3.32 and 3.32. Just two seasons ago he went 17-6 for the Red Sox with that 3.32 ERA.

I'm thinking the Giants believe his drop off the cliff last season stemmed from arm issues that are now fixed. His velocity fell from a so-so 91 to a disturbing 89. His walk rate soared from a concerning 3.87 career mark to a Halloween-ish 5.35. As recently as 2016 he struck out 9.81 batters per nine, and just exceeded nine per nine in 2017. Last season he fell off by another K per nine.

Pomeranz pitched for the A's, although I believe it was after Farhan left. But perhaps he received some insight for the A's organization. If the signing is of the minor league variety, I like it. If it's a major league deal for any significant money (Pomeranz received $8.5 million last season), I'm not down with it.

I trust Farhan though, so I suspect we'll learn more, and it will help appease us.

[rog]

Oh, by the time I posted I had forgotten you cited the salary, Mordy. $1.5 million does seem like a good gamble for a guy who was quite good until last season. I thought I'd learn more, and all I had to do was READ!

By the way, Mordy, you're on FIRE!

[holiday613]

Thx for the Kind words Rog....I believe Drew pitched for the A's while Farhan was there...He probably knows more than we do and once again I will give Mr Zaidi the benefit of the doubt...Love these cheap signings since I don't see this team as anymore than a .500 at best...So lets bide time..Let the younger players get more developed and lets pounce on some good Free agents in the coming years if they are the missing pieces...until then, Stay the course!!!

[Islandboagie]

At $1.5 million that's a solid risk free signing.

[sfgdood]

who is he?

[sfgdood]

ok so that last post was just a jab...but in all seriousness, it is further proof that the Giants have ZERO interest in a true rebuild. They just want more old guys.

[Islandboagie]

I disagree, Randy. $1.5 million is a low risk pickup, and if they aren't competing at the trade deadline (and if Pomeranz pitches well) he's just become a good trading chip for getting young talent for the future. It's a win win for the Giants if he pitches well. If he pitches poorly then it's just $1.5 mil wasted, no big deal.

[rog]

For quite a while now I have been leaning that the Giants wanted to both retool and rebuild. And recently Farhan has made it clear that is the case.

Pomeranz isn't young, but at just 30, he's young for a free agent. Now it's time to get on with priority #1, which is building an outfield out of their outhouse.

[rog]

Pomeranz isn't another minor league signing, but at just $1.5 million, he's very low risk. Kind of like when the Giants signed Juan Uribe for $1 million. Amazingly, they signed Aubrey Huff for only $3 million. And got Pat Burrell for the major league minimum.

No, we haven't seen anything particularly exciting yet. And they missed out on three guys I would have liked to see them sign. But they've added significant depth to their rotation without spending much. Tyler Beede just wasn't going to cut it, and Shaun Anderson might not.

We're pumping up the young pitchers, and certainly there is hope for Dereck Rodriguez, Andrew Suarez and Chris Stratton, but it sounds like the Giants may have the worst starting pitching prospects of any team in baseball. It was particularly distressing not to hear good things about Sean Hjelle, the Giants #2 draft pick last summer.

[sfgdood]

If we had a roster that wasn't putrid, then "low risk" might actually mean something to me...to me getting a 30+ player to take opportunity away from a prospect isn't real productive to a meaningful rebuild.

[rog]

to me getting a 30+ player to take opportunity away from a prospect isn't real productive to a meaningful rebuild.


Rog -- I see it a little differently. If the season started tomorrow, the Giants' rotation would likely be Bumgarner, Holland, Samardzija, Pomeranz and Rodriguez -- if Samardzija is healthy and Bumgarner hasn't been traded. That would indeed squeeze Andrew Suarez out of the rotation, but the Giants are concerned about overdoing the innings of both Suarez and Rodriguez, so I doubt there will be a problem. If Samardzia isn't healthy or Bumgarner has been flipped, there will be plenty of room for all concerned.

And remember the injury factor, even if all hands begin the season with healthy arms. Some are questioning whether the Dodgers need another starting pitcher, and they already have Kershaw, Buehler, Ryu, Hill, Stripling, Maeda and Urias, each with an ERA below 4.00 and two with ERA's below 3.00.

We're hearing that the Giants may not have a single starter in the minor leagues who will become a true major league starter, they have two starters coming off serious injury -- one of whom will likely miss the entire season, they have only two significant young starters, their #1 starter is a candidate to be traded, and you think they have too many starters?

I can see your point, but I'm not too worried. You know how they say that teams can never have enough starting pitching?

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher#ixzz5dTS4lU8i

[rog]

By the way, I'm with Mordy that the Giants aren't likely as presently constituted to be better than a .500 team. Farhan knows that too, so he must have something up his sleeve.

The Giants now have committed salaries of about $165 million. I believe Pomeranz fills the final spot on the 40-man roster, so any more additions will require a roster move. Some of the guys the Giants have added this winter might be involved. I see Gerber as being the most vulnerable.

[rog]

It is reported that the incentives could bring Pomeranz's total package to $5 million. If the Giants are going to compete, they want him to earn those incentives.

So here's an idea. Not sure if I approve or not, but it's an idea. Sign Bryce Harper for half the national debt and be prepared to trade some salary, even if it means eating some, depending on how the season goes.

If we look at the team as it is now constituted, the bullpen is OK, the rotation at least has potential, the infield and catcher are OK, but the outfield is an out house, and the depth remains at surface level. Add in Harper, and the outfield reaches the level of possibly being acceptable (with luck or the trading of Bumgarner for a good, young outfielder).

Remember, in the right deal, I'd be willing to part with even Alen Hanson. Speaking of which, doesn't it still seem likely that Nick Hundley will be back after winning the Willie McCovey Award?

[rog]

I see now that the Giants already WERE at the 40 man limit and that Mike Gerber HAS been DFA'd.

[sfgdood]

What a HUGE Rule 5 pickup he was huh? Boy am I glad Fargeek knew more than the Jays did about him.

[rog]

What a HUGE Rule 5 pickup he was huh? Boy am I glad Fargeek knew more than the Jays did about him.


Rog -- You've got the wrong guy, Randy. Wrong guy. Not a Rule 5 draftee. And in the words of the King of Siam, "Etcetera. Etcetera. Etcetera."

[rog]

That's not, by the way, to say that the Giants' two Rule 5 guys will stick, but I liked the choices. Mike Gerber, who was picked off waivers days BEFORE the two guys were drafted, I wasn't as fond of.

As I have stated before, Drew Ferguson plays all three outfield positions, bats right-handed, and I do believe will stick. Ferguson has something like a career .368 OBP in the minors and has decent tools.

[sfgdood]

you just said Gerber, a rule 5 pick, was DFAd

[Islandboagie]

Randy- If we had a roster that wasn't putrid, then "low risk" might actually mean something to me...to me getting a 30+ player to take opportunity away from a prospect isn't real productive to a meaningful rebuild.

Boagie- number one, all credible sources (Zaidi and Bochy) say the Giants are going to try to be competitive, so get rebuilding out of your head, at least for now.

Two, a $1.5 million pitcher with incentives isn't going to prevent a young kid who deserves to start an opportunity unless the Giants are competing. I know you want the rebuild, but if the Giants are playing well I'm sure you'll jump on board.

Three, we dont know if there's another move in the works. Maybe they're shipping Samardjiza somewhere (we can only hope.)

The thing that's the most compelling for me, is while I keep hearing the plan to compete this season, nothing of substance has been done that would lead me to believe they have a chance to compete. So either they're delusional, or they have a plan to swoop in and land Bryce Harper. Which, in my opinion would immediately make them one of the favorites to make the post season. So while I know you like the idea of rebuilding, what would your tone be if we had Harper?

I know it's a long shot, and I'm not expecting it, but I do see it as a possibility. If you haven't heard, theres talk about a mystery team that has interest in Harper. I just read a bleacher report about the Bryce Harper lottery, and the article I read has the Giants as the most likely mystery team.

[Islandboagie]

Here's the article

www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiJoKGO7IXgAhWT3lQKHeWCCwkQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Farticles%2F2816889-mlb-mystery-teams-that-can-steal-bryce-harper-manny-machado-and-other-top-stars&psig=AOvVaw3f0UCgzQ45ajrfdp7jaIe-&ust=1548399591541986

[sfgdood]

Number one...Fargeek is not credible in my mind yet

two...The Giants would have to be playing GREAT, not just well, in order for me to be on board with a non-rebuild. To me this is the same as Congress kicking the Immigration/Border Security can down the road for like decades.

three...the moves I want are more about getting rid of players, not aquiring

[rog]

you just said Gerber, a rule 5 pick, was DFAd


Rog -- Where did I mention that Mike Gerber was a Rule 5 pick?

Here's the graceful way to handle this, Randy. Just say, I got Gerber and Drew Ferguson mixed up. With all the lower-roster movement the Giants have had this off-season, it was an easy mistake to make -- and I'm really good at it.

Just that humble little mea culpa would allow us to rejoice in your humanity.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher#ixzz5dXIMkBOH

[rog]

So either they're delusional, or they have a plan to swoop in and land Bryce Harper. Which, in my opinion would immediately make them one of the favorites to make the post season.


Rog -- You've put some nice perspective out there on this thread, Boagie, but I have to disagree that the Giants should be one of the favorites to make the post season if they sign Harper. The only season of his career that would have been true was 2015. 2017 might have been that type of season if he had been able to stay healthy. Let's not forget that Bryce has averaged only 132 games per season. He's missed an average of close to 20% of the seasons he's played. And most players don't get healthier as they get older.

In only three of his seven seasons has Bryce been even a 5-win player. Right now the Giants could use his one 10-win season.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher?page=1#ixzz5dXJMq0PU

[rog]

So where can the Giants pick up those extra wins this season?

. Buster Posey should be healthy, which could add a couple of wins (although not necessarily if his return is delayed into the season).

. Joe Panik should bounce back for an extra win or two.

. A healthy Brandon Belt could add another win or two.

. Will Smith's being healthy could add a win.

. A healthy Jeff Samardzija could add a couple.

. Somebody like Mad Williamson could emerge from the weeds and pick up two or three.

. Drew Pomeranze could bounce back to 2017 and pick up two or three.


The situation isn't hopeless. But it's very serious.

[Islandboagie]

A healthy Samardjiza would probably add to losses, not wins, as has been the case throughout his career.

[garyd4sf]

Just 31 years old and one year (2017) removed from a 17-6 guy 3.32 for Boston. This despite the DH and the Green Wall. Prior year was 11-12 with same 3.32 ERA  (2016).


Worth a look. Zaidi knew him from his stint in Oakland.

[rog]

A healthy Samardjiza would probably add to losses, not wins, as has been the case throughout his career.


Rog -- The healthy Jeff Samardzija wasn't bad in 2016 and 2017. Not great, but right around a league average pitcher. He went only 21-26 those two seasons, but he received on 184 runs of support while giving up 195.

If you want to look at a Giants starter who underperformed his run support, perhaps you might want to look at Madison Bumgarner, who barely made .500 (19-18) even though he received 174 runs of support while yielding 120.

I'm not saying Jeff was as good a pitcher as Madison. Jeff was the Giants' #3 starter, while Madision was their ace. But if you're implying Jeff had a losing record because he pitched poorly, that simply isn't accurate. And if you're saying he is a "loser" because he doesn't take advantage run support, that isn't accurate either if one compares him to Madison.

I'm basing my opinion on facts, Boagie. You seem to be basing yours on bias.

Hey, I thought of you a day or two ago when I read a very negative fantasy report on Jeff, and since we don't know if Jeff will be healthy, we have little idea how he will perform this season. But it is a fact that when Jeff was healthy for the Giants, he was just about an average pitcher.

If you think he was a poor pitcher in 2016 and 2017, you don't have a clear picture of the situation. Or aren't willing to admit what you see. I think you are judging him through biased lenses.

Now, would I trade Jeff for nada just to get salary relief? You bet I would. Guarantee me he'll be healthy, and I'm more or less neutral on the situation -- a little to the negative side, but not distraught. Which is more optimistic than I was when his contract was signed. But without knowing his health, I'd trade him for nothing.

Let's put it this way: I would much rather have Anibal Sanchez at 2/$19 than have Jeff with his remaining 2/$40. But you don't seem to be too enthralled with Anibal either, even though one can make a strong scouting and analytic argument for him IMO.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5031/giants-sign-pitcher#ixzz5dYQu8gfC

[klaiggeb]

As much as I think signing Drew was smart, all this looks like to me is just one more move to give this team the "illusion," (to the fans), that they'll be able to compete.

As Mordy said; .500 at best.

Ya'all can continue to be patient with the guy, my patience with him is over and out.

[sfgdood]

yeah, 500 is a dream even IF everything goes right. Add some key injuries and this can go horribly bad again.